Whinge of the day thread...

[Hawkear]

My grandfather was one of four children orphaned in Liverpool by the ravages of cholera. The children were sent to institutions in Liverpool and then they were split up. The older child stayed in England able to obtain work, the two middle male children were sent to Australia to be fostered with the intent that they could ultimately find work in the coal mines of NSW, which they did, and the younger sister was sent to America where she happened on a wealthy foster family.
WIthout making any comment on local issues, it was common practice in those times to make decisions in the interests of the child which by many modern views are today seen as not acceptable.
I can only say that the lives of the three children sent from England under the euphemistically named “ Colonisation Circular” were fulfilled.
I can only comment that I am proud of my heritage in their being able put aside past ancestral difficulties and do not greatly but at least moderately well through their own efforts.
Edit Should I now seek to impress on my children about the difficulties that fate has inflicted on my family or of small progress that each generation has been to make since arriving in Australia.

 

[user 4386]

My grandfather was one of four children orphaned in Liverpool by the ravages of cholera. The children were sent to institutions in Liverpool and then they were split up. The older child stayed in England able to obtain work, the two middle male children were sent to Australia to be fostered with the intent that they could ultimately find work in the coal mines of NSW, which they did, and the younger sister was sent to America where she happened on a wealthy foster family.
WIthout making any comment on local issues, it was common practice in those times to make decisions in the interests of the child which by many modern views are today seen as not acceptable.
I can only say that the lives of the three children sent from England under the euphemistically named “ Colonisation Circular” were fulfilled.
I can only comment that I am proud of my heritage in their being able put aside past ancestral difficulties and do not greatly but at least moderately well through their own efforts.
Edit Should I now seek to impress on my children about the difficulties that fate has inflicted on my family or of small progress that each generation has been to make since arriving in Australia.

I think that would probably be in the wording. And it depends what you mean by words like "progress" and "inflicted". I am pretty well off as are our children, but I don't see that as the most important thing. And some pretty bad things happened to earlier family. Dad and mum had to leave school to support the family in the 1930s depression, dad went into the Pacific war at 16 and lost most of his friends and died young (48 when I last saw him), two murdered uncles and a murdered Grandma, transported convicts (not so far back, I knew Great grandma who was the daughter of one), starving Irish on coffin ships, huge schisms in family in the last generation. But I don't let that hang around my neck or theirs - nor should you or they - what will happen is in the future, the past is over and consigned to history, although it doesn't hurt to know. We are a family.

 

[user 7268]

My grandfather was one of four children orphaned in Liverpool by the ravages of cholera. The children were sent to institutions in Liverpool and then they were split up. The older child stayed in England able to obtain work, the two middle male children were sent to Australia to be fostered with the intent that they could ultimately find work in the coal mines of NSW, which they did, and the younger sister was sent to America where she happened on a wealthy foster family.
WIthout making any comment on local issues, it was common practice in those times to make decisions in the interests of the child which by many modern views are today seen as not acceptable.
I can only say that the lives of the three children sent from England under the euphemistically named “ Colonisation Circular” were fulfilled.
I can only comment that I am proud of my heritage in their being able put aside past ancestral difficulties and do not greatly but at least moderately well through their own efforts.
Edit Should I now seek to impress on my children about the difficulties that fate has inflicted on my family or of small progress that each generation has been to make since arriving in Australia.

Some good points and made valid by records of known history and by all means be proud of your heritage Must be nice to be able to do so I should imagine? But one cannot feel proud of their heritage if there is no heritage or records of such available? The issue and only issue I have about the whole situation is the records ARE available but just will not be released to me ? I know children are supposed to have been found under a cabbage, but as an adult I sort of left that idea along with the stork behind with my childhood

 

[user 4386]

Some good points and made valid by records of known history and by all means be proud of your heritage Must be nice to be able to do so I should imagine? But one cannot feel proud of their heritage if there is no heritage or records of such available? The issue and only issue I have about the whole situation is the records ARE available but just will not be released to me ? I know children are supposed to have been found under a cabbage, but as an adult I sort of left that idea along with the stork behind with my childhood

Get started with the DNA - it might open some doors. Bloody awful I know.

 

[user 7268]

I think that would probably be in the wording. And it depends what you mean by words like "progress" and "inflicted". I am pretty well off as are our children, but I don't see that as the most important thing. And some pretty bad things happened to earlier family. Dad and mum had to leave school to support the family in the 1930s depression, dad went into the Pacific war at 16 and lost most of his friends and died young (48 when I last saw him), two murdered uncles and a murdered Grandma, transported convicts (not so far back, I knew Great grandma who was the daughter of one), starving Irish on coffin ships, huge schisms in family in the last generation. But I don't let that hang around my neck or theirs - nor should you or they - what will happen is in the future, the past is over and consigned to history, although it doesn't hurt to know. We are a family.

Goldie well said, I don't feel "inflicted" with anything? Always had a warm bed and food and taught good manners and principles of life. It is the way I was brought up that taught me life is what you make it regardless of where you come from. But indeed yes would be nice to know where one did come from?

 

[Goldfreak]

If you know that area, did you know Clem Coulthard (or his sons at Iga Warta and Neppabunna, eg Vince Jr, Vince Sr, Terence)? I put in tracks with Clem in 1969 during Mt Painter uranium exploration. Clem was the last initiated Adnyamathanha (yura or "rock people") man. I remember his son Vince Sr underwent Pitjatjantjara initiation up in the Musgraves because there were no Adnyamathanha elders left to initiate him. I would walk ahead putting flagging tape on trees and Clem would fire up his clunky old dozer with a spray of aeroguard and follow doing an incredible job (eg Sillers Lookout track at Arkaroola was one of his - photo).

View attachment 7414

My family have some historical connections with the Nicols family a bit further south.. Well done saving that fella. Different person but similar time period. Toilet roles soaked in some fuel can also make good improvised landing strip lights.

 

[Goldfreak]

Get started with the DNA - it might open some doors. Bloody awful I know.

My brother had a dna test and it said he was 4 percent asian. Not that we can see it. Although that percentage and "asia" being from Turkey to Japan and to the sub continent makes it hard to really what physical traits we might look for. For Bogger If your sibling has had a dna test you can get an idea where you might be from but the pecentages can vary even if you have the same parents. I know alot of South Australians from the Flinders area that still have Afghan ( Pashtun ) characteristics from I presume the cameleers ? I find it facinating to see living history in peoples physical traits. As humans become more mobile and gene pools get more diverse this is something that will become harder to do in the future.

 

[user 4386]

My brother had a dna test and it said he was 4 percent asian. Not that we can see it. Although that percentage and "asia" being from Turkey to Japan and to the sub continent makes it hard to really what physical traits we might look for. For Bogger If your sibling has had a dna test you can get an idea where you might be from but the pecentages can vary even if you have the same parents. I know alot of South Australians from the Flinders area that still have Afghan ( Pashtun ) characteristics from I presume the cameleers ? I find it facinating to see living history in peoples physical traits. As humans become more mobile and gene pools get more diverse this is something that will become harder to do in the future.

A couple of points. 4% is pretty meaningless (i.e. once you get to such low percentages it does not necessarily indicate any at all - my wife shows as 5% Basque but we just dismiss that as unlikely. Above about 10% is probably fairly reliable (and so would a cluster of values perhaps each only 4% but all adjacent to each other). Must have been an old determination as well, because no modern test would have as simple a statement as "Asian" - nowadays they can get down to countries, or even parts of countries (see mine below).


Children might vary a bit, but overall there should be broad agreement between children if you ignore things like isolated 4% values. Obviously you might have got a particular gene from one parent and a sibling might have got it from the other (e.g. you might have red hair but not your sibling). However this wont have a large effect on ethnic (autosomal) determinations on children. Autosomal DNA does not determine the *** chromosomes (nuclear Y and X).

Yep, lots of Afghans in northern South Australia, reflected in surnames like Khan (my great-uncle was a cameleer from there but was not Afghan). He carted water to Coober Pedy miners from Coward Springs. "Afghan" is a bit of a misnomer because they mostly came from what is now Pakistan, especially Gujerat. You can recognize the often roundish faces of those with this ancestry. Many aborigines (partly because Afghans were less racist and married aboriginal women). And some Europeans (at the time many white women who married Afghans did so because they were treated with more respect by them than by European men, in the context of the times). Just anecdotal historical comments by women.
And yes, we are in the final days of determining ethnicity by DNA because of mass movements around the world (it requires that groups of people lived in one area for a long period of time). Strictly it is geographic, because ethnicity is also made up of culture, language, religion etc - so two people who came from the same area will show this in their DNA despite differing in other cultural variables - unless those variables reflect people who have migrated there from elsewhere - but only for a few hundred years. Fortunately it reflects a number of generations (eg up to 500 years or so back). So an Afghan who migrated to Australia 120 years ago will still show up as coming from Pakistan or perhaps Afghanistan (if these can even be distinguished separately in DNA).

 

[user 4386]

My family have some historical connections with the Nicols family a bit further south.. Well done saving that fella. Different person but similar time period. Toilet roles soaked in some fuel can also make good improvised landing strip lights.

It would have been around 1970-2

 

[EVIE/BEE]

I don't care.

 

[Jaros]

I remember being pulled over north of Alice Springs with other cars with our headlights on to guide in the Royal Flying Doctor Service. Good rest time.

 

[Manpa]

If we change the date of Australia Day, do you think all the protesters will go away?

 

[Mackka]

The answer Pa, is NO!!!!!! They want the entire Australia Day gone, they don’t want to celebrate the Achievements that came with the landing of the First Fleet. They want everything there way or no way. I read today that in some parts of Victoria they have a Pay the Rent I.e. a voluntary payment to an Aboriginal Council organization whom then distributes the money as they see fit. You mark my words, if the Voice gets up we will all be paying a new land tax. Mackka

 

[Simmo]

Australia day has nothing to do with the landing of the first fleet???
@goldierocks ?

 

[user 4485]

Australia day has nothing to do with the landing of the first fleet???
@goldierocks ?

Not sure about that Simmo?
The first fleet arrived on 18th January 1788, found a suitable site (Sydney Cove) on around the 21st January & sailed in, disembarked then set about establishing a colony on the 26th January 1788.
That's what the history sites tell me.

 

[Mackka]

Australia DayYep, is all about the landing on 26/01/1788 after Capt. Arthur Phillip left England in May 1787 with 11 ships containing 1,500 men, women and children and endured a 20,000 kilometre journey to The Promised Land ( my words not his). Entered Botany Bay on 20th January and landed on Aussie soil on the 26th . God Save The King. Mackka

 

[nucopia]

Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 marked the first time the term ‘Australian citizen’ had been used in any legislation, including the Constitution.
It became Law on 26th of January 1949 . After this date we were no longer British subjects but natural born Australians or could become naturalised Australians.
Many new Australians become naturalised citizens of Australia on January 26 in ceremonies all over Australia .. thats what I always believed we celebrated Australia day for..
https://www.nma.gov.au/defining-moments/resources/citizenship-act

 

[user 4485]

Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 marked the first time the term ‘Australian citizen’ had been used in any legislation, including the Constitution.
It became Law on 26th of January 1949 . After this date we were no longer British subjects but natural born Australians or could become naturalised Australians.
Many new Australians become naturalised citizens of Australia on January 26 in ceremonies all over Australia .. thats what I always believed we celebrated Australia day for..
https://www.nma.gov.au/defining-moments/resources/citizenship-act

Possibly no fluke it was enacted on the 26th?
I always thought it was a bit of both?
Whatever it was it should be an inclusive day of celebration now IMO. All our multi-cultural nationalities & a reflection on our history (both good & bad).

 

[nucopia]

I have no aboriginal ancestry so i feel entitled to ask the question.
What is the generational limit to claiming to be aboriginal?
If my great grandmother was aboriginal would her offspring still be classed as aboriginal in the year 2200?
Seems that's the way it is. Why?

Back in 1982 my eldist sister started looking for her birth mother, who was also the mother of myself and 4 othersiblings. She was born in 1949 both my parents were her parents but she did not know that at the time she began her search.
My father was born and grew up in Everleigh st Redfern. Mom was from wentworthville and at age 15 with her elder sister she moved to Redfern to work in a factory making eye glasses. My dad was an apprentice boot maker at 16 working near by .. they met each other at the local corner shop in Redfern and began seeing each other. When mom found out she was pregnant she was made a ward of the state and sent to a home for unwed mothers to give birth snd give away the child ( my sister ) for adoption. She had just turned 16 in jJuly gave birth in September and was forced to give up my sister a few days after she was born. 4 years later my parents got married they had 5 more children my sister in 54 another sister in 57 , myself in 59 , a sister in 64 and my younger broth cam along in 67. My parents named her Ronda when she was born couple who were her adoptive parents named her Lesley .
In March April 1982 my parents were in Wangi Wangi staying in the house they had recently built for their future retirment.
I had just come back and was on leave from the Army we kept getting phone calls asking to speak with mom but no explanation as to why apart from a private matter.. eventually the women who had been calling spoke with my mom and explained that my sister had been searching for her birth mother and wanted to make contact.. permission was given for my sister to call the house and when she did she found out that not only had she found her mother but her father and 5 siblings ..
a few years after that my older sister Ronda (born 1954) started doing research on our family tree.. she found records from mom’s side going back to 1801 on my fathers side she traced back to my farthers great grand parents. His great grandmothers death certificate listed her as Biddy N, Aboriginal date of death place of death Belengin NSW cause of death etc
When we were growing up and were old enough to understand my parents told us about being forced to give up our sister .
Until 1968 myself and my 2 sisters went to a Catholic shool after 68 we went to a public school because my parents had stopped worrying by then that the walfare officer might take us away.. growing up in Redfern my dad had the nick name Cebu after the actor in the jungle book movie becasue of his dark complexion he was also called effectionatly black ******* by his much older siblings..
my parents claim but are never sure if true , that one of the neighbours in Redfern reported my mom to the Police which started the process of making her a ward of the state resulting in the forced adoption..
different time’s different attitudes

 

[Mackka]

Very sad story mate and I am glad it had a happy ending. Mackka