SPP HICCUP
- Thread starter old hand
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Help Support Prospecting Australia:
yes I did and I have to get back to them with a few things it will take a bit of time so I would just hang of on doing any modes regards john 
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I keep my coil on the ground, I have only used the supplied 12inch Aussie mono so can't comment on other coils yet.
So far I've noticed the hiccup during change of direction at the end of my sweep, I sweep pretty slow as I've found the response from targets is better. The hiccup seems to disappear noticeably after an hour or so of continued use??? Found myself putting a tiny target down to check all was well as the machine would run so calm!(same ground)gain set at 7.
I need to get a longer lower shaft as the supplied shaft is a bit short for me(could be disturbing my height at end of swing) I've only used the rechargable battery.
The threshold is easily moved by a lose fitting jumper or jacket(very close to gb knob)
The hiccup is not really annoying me so far, tbh the spp has turned out to be a lot more capable machine than I was expecting for the money, the last Pi machine I used was a sd2200d when it first came out so my experience with Pi is a bit dated :8
So far I've noticed the hiccup during change of direction at the end of my sweep, I sweep pretty slow as I've found the response from targets is better. The hiccup seems to disappear noticeably after an hour or so of continued use??? Found myself putting a tiny target down to check all was well as the machine would run so calm!(same ground)gain set at 7.
I need to get a longer lower shaft as the supplied shaft is a bit short for me(could be disturbing my height at end of swing) I've only used the rechargable battery.
The threshold is easily moved by a lose fitting jumper or jacket(very close to gb knob)
The hiccup is not really annoying me so far, tbh the spp has turned out to be a lot more capable machine than I was expecting for the money, the last Pi machine I used was a sd2200d when it first came out so my experience with Pi is a bit dated :8
I appreciate the additional information. Everything and every bit of information helps. I am not accusing anyone of operating the detector wrong, but simply trying to find out just what might be going on.
Now, are any of you who have added the conductor mode switch using the low conductor mode and if so, does it help a little, a lot or not much at all?
Are there any TDI users having the same problems while operating the TDI the same way or does the detector work better or worse? I know Zuke has both, so I hope he chimes in here and lets me know if the two detector models act the same in the bad ground.
All my questions have a reason and the most accurate answers really do help me understand so I can hopefully find a solution. For example, the design of the SPP is based upon the TDI design and only has a couple of changes, one of which is the noise reduction design. The gain is basically the same. So, if the TDI doesn't suffer from the same condition, then being able to switch out the noise reduction might be an option.
As for why the DD doesn't work on the SPP also confuses me. Why it won't ground balance or at the limit is also confusing. Does the TDI do exactly the same? Again, this will help if there is a difference between the two models. Your answers are quite important since the SPP pc board was designed so it might be used in the TDI housing if all works fine. Knowing the differences may eliminate future problems.
Now, my DD coils I made in the past ground balance here just fine. Unfortunately, I have not tried different brands of DD coils and only have one factory ML DD coil I still need to fool with. So, I can't answer questions about ML compatible coils. I do know some 2200D owners were having problems finding coils that would work, though. This sort of indicates there was some minor differences in coils for that model.
Building a DD coil to work on the TDI series isn't difficult and can be quite sloppy and still work fine.
It is unfortunate no one has a Salt coil to try. They are designed to ground cancel, thus work differently than most coils. The design is such the receive winding is a figure 8 and half will detect objects while the other half will give screwy signals.
Getting back to the DD coil, if a person doesn't put the coil on the ground but instead hovers above the ground a couple inches in height, does the coil GB differently? Does the ground balance change when operating over mild ground? Again, I am not asking people to run their detector this way but to find out if the GB changes with coil height or if the ground changes.
So, I still have a lot of questions but will stop here for now. Diagnosing this problem via long distance is quite a challenge.
BTW, I am interested in White's response also. I knew there former chief electrical engineer very well and could communicate with him on a frequent basis. I don't know who took over and I doubt I know him at all.
Just a few more questions, some SPP's came with a 6" coil here in the US. Did any of you get that coil? If so, does it work a little differently or the same as all the rest. Does the Miner John coils seem to work smoother or quieter? How about MJ's folded mono? Does it work fine? It should enhance small gold signals.
If you don't like the folded design, then blame me since I came up with that design several years ago and the original owner of Razorback began using it. My design didn't appear to have some of the difficulties GB'ing over here that the dual field had while also enhancing small gold signals. The design can be found on the Geotech1 forum.
Reg
Now, are any of you who have added the conductor mode switch using the low conductor mode and if so, does it help a little, a lot or not much at all?
Are there any TDI users having the same problems while operating the TDI the same way or does the detector work better or worse? I know Zuke has both, so I hope he chimes in here and lets me know if the two detector models act the same in the bad ground.
All my questions have a reason and the most accurate answers really do help me understand so I can hopefully find a solution. For example, the design of the SPP is based upon the TDI design and only has a couple of changes, one of which is the noise reduction design. The gain is basically the same. So, if the TDI doesn't suffer from the same condition, then being able to switch out the noise reduction might be an option.
As for why the DD doesn't work on the SPP also confuses me. Why it won't ground balance or at the limit is also confusing. Does the TDI do exactly the same? Again, this will help if there is a difference between the two models. Your answers are quite important since the SPP pc board was designed so it might be used in the TDI housing if all works fine. Knowing the differences may eliminate future problems.
Now, my DD coils I made in the past ground balance here just fine. Unfortunately, I have not tried different brands of DD coils and only have one factory ML DD coil I still need to fool with. So, I can't answer questions about ML compatible coils. I do know some 2200D owners were having problems finding coils that would work, though. This sort of indicates there was some minor differences in coils for that model.
Building a DD coil to work on the TDI series isn't difficult and can be quite sloppy and still work fine.
It is unfortunate no one has a Salt coil to try. They are designed to ground cancel, thus work differently than most coils. The design is such the receive winding is a figure 8 and half will detect objects while the other half will give screwy signals.
Getting back to the DD coil, if a person doesn't put the coil on the ground but instead hovers above the ground a couple inches in height, does the coil GB differently? Does the ground balance change when operating over mild ground? Again, I am not asking people to run their detector this way but to find out if the GB changes with coil height or if the ground changes.
So, I still have a lot of questions but will stop here for now. Diagnosing this problem via long distance is quite a challenge.
BTW, I am interested in White's response also. I knew there former chief electrical engineer very well and could communicate with him on a frequent basis. I don't know who took over and I doubt I know him at all.
Just a few more questions, some SPP's came with a 6" coil here in the US. Did any of you get that coil? If so, does it work a little differently or the same as all the rest. Does the Miner John coils seem to work smoother or quieter? How about MJ's folded mono? Does it work fine? It should enhance small gold signals.
If you don't like the folded design, then blame me since I came up with that design several years ago and the original owner of Razorback began using it. My design didn't appear to have some of the difficulties GB'ing over here that the dual field had while also enhancing small gold signals. The design can be found on the Geotech1 forum.
Reg
dazza if you remove the knob and make up a space out of foam rubber this help to keep the threshold a bit firmer ,with the lower shaft I would buy the extension item LFS05 THEY ARE ABOUT $19 up the track if you buy other brand coils just drill 2 holes and you can use minelab lower shafts regards john
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old hand said:dazza if you remove the knob and make up a space out of foam rubber this help to keep the threshold a bit firmer ,with the lower shaft I would buy the extension item LFS05 THEY ARE ABOUT $19 up the track if you buy other brand coils just drill 2 holes and you can use minelab lower shafts regards john
Cheers old hand
Reg, I'd seen the hiccup talk on this forum before I even got my spp, my very time useing it I heard the sound and had a little laugh to myself as it really is/sounds like a child with the hiccups
Here is a really screwy request to try on a DD coil. If you have some lead tape like that used on a golf club or take a small piece of lead and pound it flat and then mount it with tape on your DD coil, see if the GB changes at all. Normally, you would want to try some location other than the center line where the two windings overlap. If mounted outside that area, the lead should give a response that cause the coil to go silent.
I am wondering if this alters the GB at all. Try moving the small lead piece across the coil in small increments including across the overlap zone and see if it helps the GB range at some particular mounting location.
Sometimes, ferrite is used to adjust the balance point on a VLF coil and may distort the coil signal just enough to help on a PI also. So, even ferrite might be tried also.
Thanks for trying it. It is quite possible it won't help, but you never know.
I am just tossing out ideas until other coils can be made.
Reg
I am wondering if this alters the GB at all. Try moving the small lead piece across the coil in small increments including across the overlap zone and see if it helps the GB range at some particular mounting location.
Sometimes, ferrite is used to adjust the balance point on a VLF coil and may distort the coil signal just enough to help on a PI also. So, even ferrite might be tried also.
Thanks for trying it. It is quite possible it won't help, but you never know.
I am just tossing out ideas until other coils can be made.
Reg
Reg, my plugger straight shaft came today so i have been drilling out rivets and fitting new shaft. I wont have the detector operating until weekend. I am waiting for Pot. to arrive so i can do everything at once. When i get it all back together i will carry out some of your suggestions with dd coil.
KarlS
Karl
Hi Reg. My SPP got two mods so far. The conductivity switch and C42 jumped. Before I shorted C42, occasionally when I lay detector down to retrieve target the detector would squeal like pig and sometimes it would not stop until I picked it up and wave it around. It was happening more often when I used 1.5V alkaline or 1.6V NiZn batteries . Shorting C42 fixed that problem. With conductivity swith fitted and 7.5" White's mono coil I don't experience much problems with the hiccuping. It happens occasionally, but I will have to take note under what circumstances it does happen. The nature of terrain where I'm detecting makes it virtually impossible to keep the coil at constant height. I try to lightly scrap the ground with the coil but high grass, fallen branches and the rocks mean that the distance of the coil from the ground varies by as much as 2". I have been using metal detectors since 1984 and I can adjust my swing speed to suit.
My biggest problem with SPP is that I practicaly can not use DD coils. In some spots it is impossible to GB with Commander 10x5 DD coil and few meters away it GB OK. I prefer DD coils as I don't have to overlap swings by much and target recovery is much faster. I'm going to try your suggestion with piece of lead on the coil.
I have posted this before but you may not read it. Regarding delay pot. If the microprocessor programing has not been changed after the delay pot has been omitted from SPP, there has to be a resistor on PCB that sets 10us delay. Therefore plugging frequency connector to the delay socket will not work unless the resistor is shortened. I will check it out next time when I got detector open.
Regardless of little problems I recon that SPP is very good detector and good value for money. I only wish that fine GB adjustment was left on it. That is going to be next mod, 1K pot in series with existing GB pot. As it is the Ground Balance is very difficult to adjust and it needs to be adjusted often.
Kar
My biggest problem with SPP is that I practicaly can not use DD coils. In some spots it is impossible to GB with Commander 10x5 DD coil and few meters away it GB OK. I prefer DD coils as I don't have to overlap swings by much and target recovery is much faster. I'm going to try your suggestion with piece of lead on the coil.
I have posted this before but you may not read it. Regarding delay pot. If the microprocessor programing has not been changed after the delay pot has been omitted from SPP, there has to be a resistor on PCB that sets 10us delay. Therefore plugging frequency connector to the delay socket will not work unless the resistor is shortened. I will check it out next time when I got detector open.
Regardless of little problems I recon that SPP is very good detector and good value for money. I only wish that fine GB adjustment was left on it. That is going to be next mod, 1K pot in series with existing GB pot. As it is the Ground Balance is very difficult to adjust and it needs to be adjusted often.
Kar
G
Guest
Reg' lots of strange noises come out of both the TDI pro & SPP they both can take some getting used to and find different techniques to stop the noises from happening' but in regards to the hiccup it doesn't seem to worry me that much but I'm using all razorback coils and I don't think it's as bad as what others describe I only get a hiccup every now and then and the folded mono's from minerjohn work well and I haven't really had any trouble.
I spent a good four hours with a 10x14 razorback mono on the SPP at full gain and I think I got one or two hiccups the whole time, I did get a lot of other pops and clucks tho' but overall for the small price it's a excellent machine.
I spent a good four hours with a 10x14 razorback mono on the SPP at full gain and I think I got one or two hiccups the whole time, I did get a lot of other pops and clucks tho' but overall for the small price it's a excellent machine.
For those of you who use the SPP only for nugget hunting and want to see if you can help using a DD coil, you might try adjusting the only small pot inside the detector. This is the internal pot that is used to calibrate the operator adjustable pot.
Now, I do recommend you mark the pot where it is now and then try changing the pot and see which way it adjusts the GB. One way it will give you more GB range and the other will allow less. For those of you who have a meter, you can measure the pot setting also, so you know where to turn it back if you don't like what happens. However, I doubt you will find it gives a lot of adjustment.
I would try the lead tape trick first though. This way, nothing inside is changed if the lead tape helps.
In places where you can't use the DD, does your mono coil GB correctly and at a GB setting of 9 or less or is it near the limit also?
Reg
Now, I do recommend you mark the pot where it is now and then try changing the pot and see which way it adjusts the GB. One way it will give you more GB range and the other will allow less. For those of you who have a meter, you can measure the pot setting also, so you know where to turn it back if you don't like what happens. However, I doubt you will find it gives a lot of adjustment.
I would try the lead tape trick first though. This way, nothing inside is changed if the lead tape helps.
In places where you can't use the DD, does your mono coil GB correctly and at a GB setting of 9 or less or is it near the limit also?
Reg
Reg I have never had any trouble GB with mono coils I use them
all the time for nugget hunting, last time I tried DD coils 10x5ml,14x9nf and a 11m/l they all GB OK .With mono coils I can work one spot and the SPP runs beautiful in another area it hiccup so annoying .
I will test some DDs today for GB and post the results to help those using DD coils thanks john
all the time for nugget hunting, last time I tried DD coils 10x5ml,14x9nf and a 11m/l they all GB OK .With mono coils I can work one spot and the SPP runs beautiful in another area it hiccup so annoying .
I will test some DDs today for GB and post the results to help those using DD coils thanks john
OK, This has convinced me to do the video demonstrating the hiccup effect. I will do the video this weekend and upload the video for all to see.
Zuke, Take the SPP out of the kids sand pit mate and put it on some real soil. :lol:
Zuke, Take the SPP out of the kids sand pit mate and put it on some real soil. :lol:
Ok fellas, I am sure you will enjoy what I found and that is info that makes things even more confusing.
As I said, my home made DD coils work fine even over the rocks I have for testing, but I found my ML dd coil and tried it. Guess what, it wouldn't ground balance either. So, I thought I would try this DD coil on my TDI's and the first one I tried the coil was touchy but would GB ok. Well, that confused me so I tried another TDI and this time it acted just like the SPP and wouldn't GB either.
What!!!! One TDI would GB and the other wouldn't? Well, I figured out why, or better stated, what the difference was and what I found is the TDI that worked is one of the original units that I had tweaked to less than 10 usec delay. So, once I figured that out, I took that unit and tried advancing the delay and bingo, now it wouldn't GB either.
Oh yeah, I decided to try the lead foil idea I mentioned before but couldn't find my lead tape, so I tried other things and found that if I took small lead shot and placed a bunch of it in the overlap area, the coil would balance. I don't know how touchy it would be because I just sat the lead shot on the coil and moved the rocks.
So, now I need to figure out why my home made coil works but the ML coil won't without cheating.
Reg
As I said, my home made DD coils work fine even over the rocks I have for testing, but I found my ML dd coil and tried it. Guess what, it wouldn't ground balance either. So, I thought I would try this DD coil on my TDI's and the first one I tried the coil was touchy but would GB ok. Well, that confused me so I tried another TDI and this time it acted just like the SPP and wouldn't GB either.
What!!!! One TDI would GB and the other wouldn't? Well, I figured out why, or better stated, what the difference was and what I found is the TDI that worked is one of the original units that I had tweaked to less than 10 usec delay. So, once I figured that out, I took that unit and tried advancing the delay and bingo, now it wouldn't GB either.
Oh yeah, I decided to try the lead foil idea I mentioned before but couldn't find my lead tape, so I tried other things and found that if I took small lead shot and placed a bunch of it in the overlap area, the coil would balance. I don't know how touchy it would be because I just sat the lead shot on the coil and moved the rocks.
So, now I need to figure out why my home made coil works but the ML coil won't without cheating.
Reg
Reg not at this stage
just tested 3 DD coils
10x6 minelab commander gain at 9and ground balanced at 8 OK it ran good
14x9 Nugget Finder gain at 9 ground balanced at 8 OK little bit noisy
16 round Nugget Finder gain at 9 just put it on and did not have to alter the ground balance
All were ok as fare as GB I tried them at the triangle factory pre-set and all coil ran a lot smoother that I did expect. I tried them over my test patch and I am still of the opinion that they have no real depth on a SPP thanks john
just tested 3 DD coils
10x6 minelab commander gain at 9and ground balanced at 8 OK it ran good
14x9 Nugget Finder gain at 9 ground balanced at 8 OK little bit noisy
16 round Nugget Finder gain at 9 just put it on and did not have to alter the ground balance
All were ok as fare as GB I tried them at the triangle factory pre-set and all coil ran a lot smoother that I did expect. I tried them over my test patch and I am still of the opinion that they have no real depth on a SPP thanks john
G
Guest
lol' Roscoe I'd like to do a few short videos as well but just can't make time hopefully with a bit of luck I'll get out Sunday.
KarlS
Karl
Well, I'm glad that your Minelab DD coil did not GB. I started having doubs about myself. Most confusing is that same coil will balance in some locations and not in others. I could not GB in local park in one spot and could GB it 20 meters away. Mono coil GB just under 7 in both spots. Same thing happen on gold field where the soil is just mildly mineralized, I can run VLF detector there without any problems . But SPP with DD coil wouldn't balance there.
Karl
Karl
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