SPP HICCUP

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I have borrowed a B&Z booster from a mate and i will try it on the SPP with reduced gain and test the signal response with this on the factory preset mark. Maybe the booster can win back some of those quieter signals at this gain level were the machine runs quiet, but still gives a reasonable signal?

I just teed up a mate with his soldering station, it has temp. control and anti static protection. I still would like to do the blanking circuit mode and see how that goes. :)
 
Oldhand, Do you mean 0.03 gram or 0.3 gram? and is that in ground test? The gain does jump up quiet a lot from 4 to 5, I do agree oldhand that below factory preset the response to small gold is a bit ordinary. That's why i might try the booster out on the SPP, I have not had much experience with signal boosters. But, i will see how it goes.

Oldhand, did you try that ground balance method out that i have been doing? :)
 
.3 gram sorry about that yes I did try the way you suggested to ground balance I found it did not help.
The only thing with signal boosters is that ever other noise is boosted as well not only the target , I have found that targets that are just audible you tend to miss them with boosters because of the surrounding ground noises regards john :)
 
Reg said:
Hi Zuke,

You might try unplugging the freq pot connector from the freq pcb connector on the pcb and moving the pot connector to the delay pcb connector and see if the delay works. If it does, then you can see what it does in your ground. My guess is it will help for a couple of reasons.

The nice thing about the test is the two pcb connectors are right next to each other.

As I mentioned in another post, the freq pot is identical to the delay pot so it should work. Also, the best I know, there was no modification of the software, so I am hoping I am correct that it will work. The only reason it wouldn't work is if there were software changes and I am fairly certain that didn't happen.

Next time I have my SPP open I will try this also.

Reg

Reg, to my way of thinking when the delay pot was was omitted from SPP there has to be a resistor on PCB that sets 10us delay. Therfore plugging the frequency pot in the connector may not change delay by much as the pot would be parallel to the resistor.
Karl
 
Yes i know what you mean it boosts the good and the bad signals. Maybe we should hip mount it and have our fingers on the vernier control ground balance knob like the one you have, that way we could do it on the run. :)
 
That's how we used to use the old Garret Deep seeker a finger on the GB knob. I do not find it necessary with the vernier it makes the GB good I am glade I did it. Even with the GB spot on with some ground you can still get the hiccup on the up stroke, it varies depending on the ground one area can be nice beautiful smooth threshold and another it hiccups and it does not stop. I do not know much about electronics but I think if this detector is released in Australia it should suite our conditions If Whites want to make its way into the PI market here dominated by ML they had better get there act together regards john
 
Oldhand, So the vernier has made a big difference to finding the ground balance point? Well look at the bright side, that's one thing off the list. I will have to get one myself as finding that GB point is a bit fiddly. :)

Reg, Did you get the machine to hiccup over those rocks?
 
My spp is very touchy for the ground balance, but with a little adjust whilst listening for the hiccups instead of actual ground balance I've found that I can get rid of most of them (perfect ground balance)

I'm useing the factory 12inch coil and have found it's when you lift the coil that it shows up most.

I think a fine tune gb pot wold fix 90%of the problem.
 
On my spp in air tests the difference between 7 and 10 sensitivity is virtually nil, 7-8 sensitivity seems great so far.
 
dazza513 I presume by sensitivity you are referring to the gain I use mine at 8 most of the time if I can . I have added a ten turn vernier to my spp and it made the ground balance a lot easer.What state are you in and what type of ground are you working thanks john :)
1413288367_p1040358.jpg
 
Roscoe,

Yes, I did get the detector to hiccup over the rocks. What I also found was what I mentioned in an earlier post and that was the GB over such radical ground (as a box of the rocks) isn't perfect or linear, meaning it might GB at 1" but have a different GB setting at 2" or less than 1". So, the hiccup happens as a result of the GB change.

This happens with ML's also and I bet they can't run a plain mono without a lot of mods or serious detuning. I used to own a SD2100 and a SD2200 and both of them were far worse and touchier when it came to GB'ing. I am guessing they use DD coils or a form of cancel mode.

Now, I haven't given up on finding a simple solution to eliminating the hiccup. I believe it can be done.

I did try a home made DD coil and it GB's at the same GB number as my mono's even over the rocks, which makes me wonder why others are having a problem. I think I know the answer but I need to find my old DD ML coil to see.

One more thing, the gain pot on the SPP and SL is a 50K so the gain of the last main amp ranges from a gain of 1 to a gain of 50. This is a radical range and is really too wide. As you will find out, a gain of 1 or other very low number doesn't work well on small gold, but the SPP or SL in disguise was made more as a universal detector and as such could use a very low gain with looking for larger near surface objects such as ring just lost.

What even White's found was after a certain gain, about the only thing gained is more noise. Any depth increase is minimal like Dazza found. The extra gain was left because the noise reduction circuit minimized the negative effects. Unfortunately, we don't have ground over here that even comes close to the conditions you have so the excessive gain problem was never noticed or even able to be created. I did it with some special rocks sent to me from OZ. I was told those rocks were like metallic objects but had no metal and made it impossible to use a VLF. So, many years ago, I paid a guy to send me some. Obviously, I asked him to wash and then spray the rocks with strong weed and bug killer before they were sent.

Right now, I am waiting to see if you get a response from White's, but in the mean time, I will try a couple of ideas I have.

If you think what you have is bad, well you would absolutely hate my original SL prototype. In noisy areas it is radical and extremely noisy. The gain was far greater than what is on the final product. Because it was so noisy, I ran some tests and found a certain point were about the only thing that happened was a noise increase, which is what Dazza found. The only difference is I can only get my gain to about 4 or 5 on the prototype before the noise is a major problem. The SPP I have is modified just like your detectors and is not like my original SL prototype so it runs normal over here even at max gain. So, my SPP works fine here with no hiccup you are experiencing.

Anyway, getting back to the SPP, I am confident a simple solution can be found and I will continue to work on it.

Reg
 
Ordered a 10 turn 50k pot today with vernier control knob for ground balance. Will fit this and see how it ground balances then. :)

Reg, I would like to know why the DD coils seem to have issues on the SPP myself. I found that i would ground balance the coil move about 2 feet and the ground balance would be out, re-ground balance and the same.? Is possible that there may be a difference between the SD, GP and GPX wiring in DD coils?
 
old hand said:
dazza513 I presume by sensitivity you are referring to the gain I use mine at 8 most of the time if I can . I have added a ten turn vernier to my spp and it made the ground balance a lot easer.What state are you in and what type of ground are you working thanks john :) https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/3528/1413288367_p1040358.jpg

I'm in yarrawonga/mulwala on the vic/nsw border.
Have been useing the spp near Benalla and the rushworth/wroo area so far, the ground near rushworth is pretty hot and I've noticed the hiccup more in that area.

I think ground balance plays a big part in the hiccup but no 100% of the problem, on really hot ground I started to wind the gain down really low and listen carefully for the hiccup and found its still there but hard to hear.

Regards Daryl
 
Roscoe I have had all of the ML detectors from 2000s to 5000s DD coils work fine on all of them.The only thing is when the 4000 came out the detectors were able to handle mono coils .I was using a 16 inch DD in cancel 6 months ago on my 4500 near power lines it went perfect if it was possible to run a mono I would have except for the annoying power lines regards john :)
 
Roscoe said:
Ordered a 10 turn 50k pot today with vernier control knob for ground balance. Will fit this and see how it ground balances then. :)

Reg, I would like to know why the DD coils seem to have issues on the SPP myself. I found that i would ground balance the coil move about 2 feet and the ground balance would be out, re-ground balance and the same.? Is possible that there may be a difference between the SD, GP and GPX wiring in DD coils?

Not only that GB changes over very short distance, but in many spots I can't GB Double D coils at all.
Karl
 
I still don't know if I am hearing what you guys are hearing. I can get a hiccup but I have to raise the coil very quickly, which is not something people should be doing.

Also, a friend mentioned something to me about an overload signal where the signal is way too strong from something under the coil. Usually, this comes from a piece of metal but now I am wondering if some of the rocks you guys have might be creating this condition also. If this is the case, then I need to see if I can find something that will let me simulate it.

So, my question or questions are; are you almost scraping the ground with the coil? Does raising the coil an inch or two seem to help? Are you trying to use the SPP like a GMT which can be swept much faster? The SPP needs a nice slow smooth sweep speed for best results. This speed can be determined by practice on small targets for the best signal.

Finally, keep in mind the SPP is a basic low cost PI and won't perform as well as another brand costing 3 to 5 times as much.

Reg
 
Reg I have come from a 4500 and 5000 and there is no way I would be sweeping fast,i swing the coil just above the ground using the coil higher of the ground does help but detectors are not designed for that we had to do that with the old VLF detectors .The price has nothing to do with it, it has been released hear and should work under our conditions When GB with the detector GB the hiccup is still there.
john
 
Reg, I am waiting for my new pot. and vernier control to arrive. It should be here tomorrow and i will fit it over the weekend. Lets see how it goes with the 10 turn pot.? I will post my finds as soon as i install and test ground balance after. If the ground balance pot. installation does not reduce the hiccup sound then i will try something else.

The hiccup can happen whilst sweeping the coil and the coil does not have to leave the ground for it to happen. I know this because i operate my detector with the coil on the ground at all times, my coil never leaves the ground its always touching. The only time it breaks contact with the ground is when i have to slide the coil over an object or a small depression in the ground that the coil can not enter into. This can cause a hiccup, but i have had the hiccup sound for know apparent reason. You do not have to raise the coil fast to induce a hiccup it can happen slow or fast. But, it is easier to induce one by raising the coil fast. Know doubt about it, if operators hover their coils above the ground they will have excessive hicupping because they can not hold a constant coil height. I refuse to hover my coil off the ground, i used to hover my coil above the ground. A lot of the gold i have found would not have been found had i had my coil hovering above the ground. I have tested this on gold in situ.

Reg, What about these DD coils on the SPP? KarlS post above, he has the exact same issue as i have with DD coils on my SPP. The ground balance is always going out or some thing like that.

There is a lot more owners of SPP's on this forum and apart from a few of us i haven't heard any comments from these owners about how their SPP is going? It would be good to here from them also because at the moment it might give readers of this post the opinion that a few of us are only having problems and this could be perceived that we are only novice operators.
 
I think a lot of SPP operators are novices and do not realise what is happening I know of 6 SPP users and all their detectors are doing the same thing lets hope a answer turns up soon .Roscoe the 10 turn pot will make it a lot easer to GB regards john :)
 
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