nuclear thoughts

[user 4386]

Heard a Nuclear physicist on the radio a few months back, Australian guy, can't recall his name?
He was saying next decade 2020s a new style safe reactor will be perfected and on the market.
10 MW generator the size of a shipping container and No Nuclear meltdown risk, using current
nuclear waste as fuel.

In Australia i doubt we will be leaders in this area or be building the new technology next decade
when the rest of the world is, our media distorts the truth and it ends up brain washing public
opinion.

Coal & Oil have been demonised.
So has nuclear.

Solar / wind have limited capacity to take up our entire energy needs.
To run a country you need Industrial generating capacity, solar is OK for homes, farms etc
for part of your energy needs.

I think South Australia would be a very good place to build Australia,s first Nuclear Power Station
on the site of the old Coal one that was shut down, ..........Chernobyl didn't have a containment building hence the widespread contamination (a graphite core). Fukishima was built on the coast in an earthquake zone. Neither great for reactors....
Where uranium is mined is pretty much irrelevant - it is processed to U235 elsewhere to form pellets for fuel rods. We can't do that in Australia (but probably could - very expensive).

Fukushima was a 50 year old design by General Electric (USA) , it was supposed to be shut down years earlier but the bean counters wanted to squeeze more out of it . What actually killed it though was the backup genset to run the emergency pumps was hit by the tsunami and the genset _fuel tank_ was ruptured or washed away.

There are at least 3 - 4 new designs for nuclear power that can never go into meltdown.

The only real problem is emotional reactivity from uninformed people , what they need to do is give it a new name stable thermo-power and everyone will be just fine with it.

In 10 - 15 years time people will laugh at the idiots who are burning coal for power now.

I would not say that it is quite as simple as that - it is not solely the threat of a meltdown that is of concern (I agree that we can build safe reactors). It is the problem of nuclear waste, production of fissile material for nuclear weapons, and mothballing old and contaminated reactors as well. Personally I don't see any as insurmountable in Australia, but I might feel differently if I lived in Belgium, Denmark or Switzerland. As for coal - it is quite unrealistic to assume that we could replace all existing power stations overnight - it can only be a gradual process of replacement by renewables (fortunately the economics are now good for this for new power stations, so it is probably one of those cases where "market forces" work.

 

[user 4386]

I also meant to say - don't take it seriously when a country says that it is abandoning nuclear. Germany simply switched to importing French power (nuclear-generated). South Africa used it as an excuse to abandon plans for a new, safe pebble-bed reactor and converted to burning dirty Botswanan coal. Japan simply waited a bit and is now firing up its nuclear plants again.

https://www.chron.com/business/ener...imports-to-fall-off-with-nuclear-13660852.php

Everything we do has risks, coal kills many as well, and imagine a country running out of power (it occurred in South Africa and some gold mines started closing as a result - in India years ago we could only wash when power came on in the evening to start the water pumps (rationed power). And it is critical to refrigeration and surgery. I suspect people would get more upset about such things than about the type of power generation....

 

[Goldtarget]

Thankyou for your input Robert, i feel much more informed, it even had me searching around the net for a few hours looking into nuclear power generation of the modern era. Next time this debate rolls around I am quite certain i will be able to understand the viewpoint of the pro nuclear side of the debate. Whilst im not swayed toward a nuclear future I can now take a more informed view of any future proposals.

Also thanks to the OP without you bringing the topic up i might have remained in the dark (pardon the pun) about the information available.

 

[pagan prospector]

Hi OldGT
The whole idea of this thread was to encourage people to be more informed on the nuclear issue there is so much spin by all parties that it gets difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff I am so happy that the people of this forum handled the discussion the way they have I reckon it just proves the calibre of the people on here
Pagan P erfect:

 

[user 4386]

A mate of mine that has now passed on was working on a geothermal site in the far north of SA he said they got proof of concept for the power plant but that the fracturing of the rock at the bottom of the bore holes was causing a few issues. he also worked in the nuclear industry in England as an engineer in the 60s and he said the sites he worked on were remarkably safe

A power company drilled one hell of a deep hole near Lake Frome. There was much release of its elevated temperatures (which simply reflected the extreme depth of the hole). However I think CSIRO had more luck in SW Queensland, with very high temperatures at only one km depth. But such sites are few and far between....

I meant PRESS release

 

[pagan prospector]

the mates site was just out of Innaminka and i believe the town benefited from the power producedhe was working for a Queensland power company
Pagan P

 

[Ridge Runner]

Over here they were going to get a company from China to upgrade/expand the nuclear power stations but at the last minute it was scrapped because some naughty person hid the true cost of the refrub and new build of the overall plan and the cat was let out of the bag and it turned out to be about 3 times the Quoted Cost, So that was the end of that and this was just in the past year,

Personally I like having my own Solar/Wind setup because I hate having to give the power companies any money what so ever, Because they keep over estimating my bill where they wanted 4X the amount of cash than I actually owed, I gave them the reading and they told me what my true bill was and within 2 days some clown came to read the meter and the next day another idiot came and took Photo's of the meter and within weeks I had another fool turn up and the very next day I had another clown turn up Both of which I told to **** off and asked them if they were taking the Pi$$ so they sent me another bill which is again higher than it should be, Point being they know what the meter reading IS and they come and took photo's of the meters because they thought that I had bypassed the meters, LOLOLOL Sad to say but I have replace every thing with very low wattage products,

My TV uses 31w and my Laptop uses about 31w and my lights use 7 watts The house fridge is soon to be shut down and replaced with the smaller ARB and then I will cut the bill again by another 5/600watts per day,

I have had nightmares with the power company and due to my current situation I don't need the Grief from them, They took away my duel fuel discount and they started charging me for meters that were installed before WWII and back in the 70's So if that's how they want to play it I can keep cutting my power usage until they get nothing and that suits me fine,

Someone here made a comment about all the batteries I have, Well Now you know why, lolololololololololololol layful: layful: layful: layful: layful: layful: layful: layful: layful: layful: layful: layful: layful: layful: layful:

Crikey I think I have flipped me Lid.

 

[Goldfreak]

Private companies, often multinationals are acting like tax collectors now supported by the government to milk its own people. Its just wrong but sadly its happening. Being self sufficent is a way to make it more difficult for them but they will find anouther way to milk you. Beware when they want to install a " free " meter on something to " help you ". I wonder how they will make up the shortfalls when most people move away from power off the grid ? How are they going to get money out of people who then use that power to run their electric vehicles when they are not paying the fuel excise ?

 

[snafu]

There is a lot of talk not just here, but in the general population about the ways and means of providing the required energy needs of the future and yet there is very little talk about reducing our energy consumption.

Sure, there are some areas of high energy usage that will never change, but I believe there needs to be a complete culture change in the way energy is wasted by the general public. We live in a world of power hungry electrical gadgets that people want, but then they complain about high electricity bills and politicians scratch their collective skulls trying to figure out a way to provide affordable and efficient energy.

Millions of people across the country boil the jug every time they want a cuppa, be it at home or in the workplace when they only need to boil it once or twice to fill a thermos. That may sound like an insignificant issue when it comes to power usage, but it's just one of the things people can change to reduce their consumption, air-con usage being another one.

Jeff

 

[Ridge Runner]

I like Solar and wind generators because once it's paid for that's all you have to pay. And the best part is you can add to it as the need arises and I can always run a small generator if I need to run one of the bigger chargers, 5 hours with the 26 Amp charger is 130amps and if needed I always have the bigger Charger to charge bigger banks,

I just like the fact it is so flexible. And it's free.

 

[user 4386]

I like Solar and wind generators because once it's paid for that's all you have to pay. And the best part is you can add to it as the need arises and I can always run a small generator if I need to run one of the bigger chargers, 5 hours with the 26 Amp charger is 130amps and if needed I always have the bigger Charger to charge bigger banks,

I just like the fact it is so flexible. And it's free.

Yes, and for people going into retirement that can be a real attraction.

The only thing I have wondered about is the long-term cost of battery storage. We can use them for solar, we are apparently going to be using them in a large way for cars. My experience of batteries is that they have limited life and are expensive. Has anyone investigated long-term costs?

 

[Ridge Runner]

I like Solar and wind generators because once it's paid for that's all you have to pay. And the best part is you can add to it as the need arises and I can always run a small generator if I need to run one of the bigger chargers, 5 hours with the 26 Amp charger is 130amps and if needed I always have the bigger Charger to charge bigger banks,

I just like the fact it is so flexible. And it's free.

Yes, and for people going into retirement that can be a real attraction.

The only thing I have wondered about is the long-term cost of battery storage. We can use them for solar, we are apparently going to be using them in a large way for cars. My experience of batteries is that they have limited life and are expensive. Has anyone investigated long-term costs?

Well I changed the battery in my truck a year ago and the one that came of it was 9 years old, It seems that by keeping them active and above 50% can boost their life span where as 18 years is not unheard of, Of coarse Proper batteries made for Solar use can last a real long time and it seems that taller bigger batteries are even more durable.

J.

 

[Swinging & digging]

I like Solar and wind generators because once it's paid for that's all you have to pay. And the best part is you can add to it as the need arises and I can always run a small generator if I need to run one of the bigger chargers, 5 hours with the 26 Amp charger is 130amps and if needed I always have the bigger Charger to charge bigger banks,

I just like the fact it is so flexible. And it's free.

Yes, and for people going into retirement that can be a real attraction.

The only thing I have wondered about is the long-term cost of battery storage. We can use them for solar, we are apparently going to be using them in a large way for cars. My experience of batteries is that they have limited life and are expensive. Has anyone investigated long-term costs?

In my line of work i often work with Battery back up systems for Industrial plants.
We often have premature failure of battery systems resulting in very costly replacements?

I laugh when i hear about people wanting totally off grid solar, or the idea of wide scale take up of EVs.
Battery storage been the solution to our entire energy needs?

Lots of research is going on to make batteries cheaper and more reliable but we are a long way off that?

In Victoria they shut Hazlewood Power Station ( 1600 MW )
To replace that generating capacity with wind, would require 602 Square Kilometres of wind farms.
Or solar 24.69 square kilometres, of panels displacing vegetation.

The Politicians / Greenies / climate strike students or the general public have no idea how we could easily and cheaply transition to renewable sources of power generation.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I like Solar and wind generators because once it's paid for that's all you have to pay. And the best part is you can add to it as the need arises and I can always run a small generator if I need to run one of the bigger chargers, 5 hours with the 26 Amp charger is 130amps and if needed I always have the bigger Charger to charge bigger banks,

I just like the fact it is so flexible. And it's free.

Yes, and for people going into retirement that can be a real attraction.

The only thing I have wondered about is the long-term cost of battery storage. We can use them for solar, we are apparently going to be using them in a large way for cars. My experience of batteries is that they have limited life and are expensive. Has anyone investigated long-term costs?

In my line of work i often work with Battery back up systems for Industrial plants.
We often have premature failure of battery systems resulting in very costly replacements?

I laugh when i hear about people wanting totally off grid solar, or the idea of wide scale take up of EVs.
Battery storage been the solution to our entire energy needs?

Lots of research is going on to make batteries cheaper and more reliable but we are a long way off that?

In Victoria they shut Hazlewood Power Station ( 1600 MW )
To replace that generating capacity with wind, would require 602 Square Kilometres of wind farms.
Or solar 24.69 square kilometres, of panels displacing vegetation.

The Politicians / Greenies / climate strike students or the general public have no idea how we could easily and cheaply transition to renewable sources of power generation.

Well if it is going to take up that amount of land then it would be better that people had their own Solar and Wind set ups on their own properties that way they would not have to destroy 602 sq kms or 24.69sq kms because people would only build them to suit their needs,

Any thing related to industry would require their own investment or pay the national grid to use their power.

The general public can get by without handing money hand over fist to power companies, Sure like all things Some parts of these personal systems break down whether it is a battery or a panel or a charge controller, But if an Item lasts 3 to 5 years the cost is a lot less than what people would of had to pay the power companies for electricity over that 3 to 5 years,

The outlay of a small system might take 1. 2 maybe 3 years to balance the books but after that outlay the rest is free, Where as with power companies you will pay for the rest of your life and the costs keep rising. And as to how big a system we personally need that all comes down to life style, We make systems for our Campers that could run a small house but with a few mods those systems could quite easily run a Home.

 

[user 4386]

I like Solar and wind generators because once it's paid for that's all you have to pay. And the best part is you can add to it as the need arises and I can always run a small generator if I need to run one of the bigger chargers, 5 hours with the 26 Amp charger is 130amps and if needed I always have the bigger Charger to charge bigger banks,

I just like the fact it is so flexible. And it's free.

Yes, and for people going into retirement that can be a real attraction.

The only thing I have wondered about is the long-term cost of battery storage. We can use them for solar, we are apparently going to be using them in a large way for cars. My experience of batteries is that they have limited life and are expensive. Has anyone investigated long-term costs?

In my line of work i often work with Battery back up systems for Industrial plants.
We often have premature failure of battery systems resulting in very costly replacements?

I laugh when i hear about people wanting totally off grid solar, or the idea of wide scale take up of EVs.
Battery storage been the solution to our entire energy needs?

Lots of research is going on to make batteries cheaper and more reliable but we are a long way off that?

In Victoria they shut Hazlewood Power Station ( 1600 MW )
To replace that generating capacity with wind, would require 602 Square Kilometres of wind farms.
Or solar 24.69 square kilometres, of panels displacing vegetation.

The Politicians / Greenies / climate strike students or the general public have no idea how we could easily and cheaply transition to renewable sources of power generation.

I agree - I mentioned this in terms of the world's largest solar plants being not much greater output than an average coal power station - and the huge areas involved. There is no single magic solution, and all involve either coal and/or nuclear.

 

[user 4386]

I like Solar and wind generators because once it's paid for that's all you have to pay. And the best part is you can add to it as the need arises and I can always run a small generator if I need to run one of the bigger chargers, 5 hours with the 26 Amp charger is 130amps and if needed I always have the bigger Charger to charge bigger banks,

I just like the fact it is so flexible. And it's free.

Yes, and for people going into retirement that can be a real attraction.

The only thing I have wondered about is the long-term cost of battery storage. We can use them for solar, we are apparently going to be using them in a large way for cars. My experience of batteries is that they have limited life and are expensive. Has anyone investigated long-term costs?

In my line of work i often work with Battery back up systems for Industrial plants.
We often have premature failure of battery systems resulting in very costly replacements?

I laugh when i hear about people wanting totally off grid solar, or the idea of wide scale take up of EVs.
Battery storage been the solution to our entire energy needs?

Lots of research is going on to make batteries cheaper and more reliable but we are a long way off that?

In Victoria they shut Hazlewood Power Station ( 1600 MW )
To replace that generating capacity with wind, would require 602 Square Kilometres of wind farms.
Or solar 24.69 square kilometres, of panels displacing vegetation.

The Politicians / Greenies / climate strike students or the general public have no idea how we could easily and cheaply transition to renewable sources of power generation.

Well if it is going to take up that amount of land then it would be better that people had their own Solar and Wind set ups on their own properties that way they would not have to destroy 602 sq kms or 24.69sq kms because people would only build them to suit their needs,

Any thing related to industry would require their own investment or pay the national grid to use their power.

The general public can get by without handing money hand over fist to power companies, Sure like all things Some parts of these personal systems break down whether it is a battery or a panel or a charge controller, But if an Item lasts 3 to 5 years the cost is a lot less than what people would of had to pay the power companies for electricity over that 3 to 5 years,

The outlay of a small system might take 1. 2 maybe 3 years to balance the books but after that outlay the rest is free, Where as with power companies you will pay for the rest of your life and the costs keep rising. And as to how big a system we personally need that all comes down to life style, We make systems for our Campers that could run a small house but with a few mods those systems could quite easily run a Home.

I think that 1-3 year payback time on an adequate home system sounds optimistic. Last I heard solar was 5 years at best.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I like Solar and wind generators because once it's paid for that's all you have to pay. And the best part is you can add to it as the need arises and I can always run a small generator if I need to run one of the bigger chargers, 5 hours with the 26 Amp charger is 130amps and if needed I always have the bigger Charger to charge bigger banks,

I just like the fact it is so flexible. And it's free.

Yes, and for people going into retirement that can be a real attraction.

The only thing I have wondered about is the long-term cost of battery storage. We can use them for solar, we are apparently going to be using them in a large way for cars. My experience of batteries is that they have limited life and are expensive. Has anyone investigated long-term costs?

In my line of work i often work with Battery back up systems for Industrial plants.
We often have premature failure of battery systems resulting in very costly replacements?

I laugh when i hear about people wanting totally off grid solar, or the idea of wide scale take up of EVs.
Battery storage been the solution to our entire energy needs?

Lots of research is going on to make batteries cheaper and more reliable but we are a long way off that?

In Victoria they shut Hazlewood Power Station ( 1600 MW )
To replace that generating capacity with wind, would require 602 Square Kilometres of wind farms.
Or solar 24.69 square kilometres, of panels displacing vegetation.

The Politicians / Greenies / climate strike students or the general public have no idea how we could easily and cheaply transition to renewable sources of power generation.

Well if it is going to take up that amount of land then it would be better that people had their own Solar and Wind set ups on their own properties that way they would not have to destroy 602 sq kms or 24.69sq kms because people would only build them to suit their needs,

Any thing related to industry would require their own investment or pay the national grid to use their power.

The general public can get by without handing money hand over fist to power companies, Sure like all things Some parts of these personal systems break down whether it is a battery or a panel or a charge controller, But if an Item lasts 3 to 5 years the cost is a lot less than what people would of had to pay the power companies for electricity over that 3 to 5 years,

The outlay of a small system might take 1. 2 maybe 3 years to balance the books but after that outlay the rest is free, Where as with power companies you will pay for the rest of your life and the costs keep rising. And as to how big a system we personally need that all comes down to life style, We make systems for our Campers that could run a small house but with a few mods those systems could quite easily run a Home.

I think that 1-3 year payback time on an adequate home system sounds optimistic. Last I heard solar was 5 years at best.

Yes It might be in some cases when it comes to standard Home setups, Bit going from the normal household Items I went from using about 4500 watts per day down to1200 to 2,100 watts per day and Adding to my yearly costs is about $370.00AUD just to pay for the WWII meters that they fitted back75+ years ago and this charge is a brand new charge they bought out in the last 3 or 4 years and they have put that cost up Twice in the past year alone, So before I even use any electricity I am nearly 400 bucks out of pocket already,

So in my case it would take me about a year to break even because I have set my place up with low wattage everything and If I swap out the house fridge to the ARB I can save another 500w per day just by running it on AC via the inverter, But if I ran it off the 12v system then I would save another 2 or 300w on top of that,

3x100w panels + 3x115A batteries, 1x1000w/2500w surge Inverter and Charge controller has cost me $1437.48AUD which is not bad really when you consider that I can save $740.00 bucks in 2 years just on the cost of the meters alone.

Of Coarse bigger homes and more people would require a bigger outlay so it would take longer to pay off or break even.

 

[user 4386]

I am interested in people's experiences but it would be a bit easier to compare if discussed in terms of energy (KwH or gigajoules) rather than wattage. I guess wattage (or Kw) is the maximum power that you can deliver at any instant, so you multiply that by 24 hours to get the energy used per day (KwH).

The average Australian home uses 32,500 KwH per year (89 KwH per day). So Ridge Runner, I guess you were using around 108 KwH per day, and now use an average around 1.7 Kw (1700 watt), which over a day (24 hours) is 41 KwH per day, or less than half average Australian usage. I suspect I use a bit more than the national average.

In other words, I would probably need a system that would deliver about 2.5 x what yours can deliver in watts.

Is my reasoning correct? It is a long time since I did any physics.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I am interested in people's experiences but it would be a bit easier to compare if discussed in terms of energy (KwH or gigajoules) rather than wattage. I guess wattage (or Kw) is the maximum power that you can deliver at any instant, so you multiply that by 24 hours to get the energy used per day (KwH).

The average Australian home uses 32,500 KwH per year (89 KwH per day). So Ridge Runner, I guess you were using around 108 KwH per day, and now use an average around 1.7 Kw (1700 watt), which over a day (24 hours) is 41 KwH per day, or less than half average Australian usage. I suspect I use a bit more than the national average.

In other words, I would probably need a system that would deliver about 2.5 x what yours can deliver in watts.

Is my reasoning correct? It is a long time since I did any physics.

Well according to my latest bill for 44 days I used 105 KwH, But that is not my normal usage because I was playing with 4 battery chargers and running the lights and small TV and the laptop during the hours when it was dark which was from 16:00hrs to 08:00 hours the next morning, So 105KwH divided by 44 days is 2.386KwH per 24 hours which is a little high because of staying up all night and playing with Toys,

Based on those figure although excessive, 2.386kwH OR 2386Watts per Day would be equal to 871.02KwH per year, Basically 871kwH per year. OR 871.020Watts

Does that help ??

John.

 

[Occasional_panner]

Have a look here https://www.redenergy.com.au/living...-is-the-average-electricity-bill-in-australia

We use around 7-10kwh a day without air con running.
With air con it can be 30kw a day.

We have gas stovetop, gas heating and hot water, but elec oven.
I'm similar to family c, but I insulated the daylights out of this place so that helps.