Still Looking
Graham
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Great info Loamer...I had no idea about any of it...thanks.
What To Look For On The Goldfields (New To Prospecting)
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That tree standing all alone in the middle has GROWN there since the diggings were undertaken...in fact the old timers were not much concerned with trees as their only value really was for the timber they could provide.
I have some shafts and leads on my property that have trees that I can hardy put my arms around growing out of them but this areas was searched well over 100 years ago.
Sometimes it is difficult to just stand still in the middle of such an area and try to imaging what it was like all those years ago.
The old timers had it tough but then they didn't have much else going for them in a country that was so NEW and without any form of social welfare you had to do something to survive.
regards
I have some shafts and leads on my property that have trees that I can hardy put my arms around growing out of them but this areas was searched well over 100 years ago.
Sometimes it is difficult to just stand still in the middle of such an area and try to imaging what it was like all those years ago.
The old timers had it tough but then they didn't have much else going for them in a country that was so NEW and without any form of social welfare you had to do something to survive.
regards
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Very interesting information. we are fairly new at this & I get a bit confused as to what I am supposed to be looking for thank you for posting this, it is very helpful. 
Hi Loamer
My understanding to surfacing is the gold in the area was super rich and sat close to the surface on an ancient clay layer or bedrock. The old timers basically took the lot !!! Leaving the hard layer underneath. Surfacing is the name given to this form of mining. It is difficult to find gold in areas marked surfacing for a number of reason.
For the old timers when they found these deposits it was EASY gold !!
Happy days.
Also every newbie to detecting sees this on a map and works the area with their magic stick. (please note for the record) I am guilty of this.
The photo you posted of the site at Moliagal was surfaced hard! The welcome stranger nugget was unearthed by a horse buggy wheel.
However some good nuggets were found extremely close to that monument ( not on the surfaced area ) as recently as a few months ago.
I couldn't help but notice the comment in regards to detecting puddlers. Be very careful with these sites they are our history and heritage, eventually they will return to the earth by erosion. I personally don't prospect the puddlers, we are lucky to still have them to appreciate now. The fine for desecrating a site of historic significance starts around the $2000 mark. And If you re wondering if anyone has been fined this amount for hitting a puddler, the answer is yes.
Sorry to sound like an environmentalist on a mission.
I am very proud of our heritage and how our ancestors calved the australian economy from the earth.
Cheers Ryan
My understanding to surfacing is the gold in the area was super rich and sat close to the surface on an ancient clay layer or bedrock. The old timers basically took the lot !!! Leaving the hard layer underneath. Surfacing is the name given to this form of mining. It is difficult to find gold in areas marked surfacing for a number of reason.
For the old timers when they found these deposits it was EASY gold !!
Happy days.
Also every newbie to detecting sees this on a map and works the area with their magic stick. (please note for the record) I am guilty of this.
The photo you posted of the site at Moliagal was surfaced hard! The welcome stranger nugget was unearthed by a horse buggy wheel.
However some good nuggets were found extremely close to that monument ( not on the surfaced area ) as recently as a few months ago.
I couldn't help but notice the comment in regards to detecting puddlers. Be very careful with these sites they are our history and heritage, eventually they will return to the earth by erosion. I personally don't prospect the puddlers, we are lucky to still have them to appreciate now. The fine for desecrating a site of historic significance starts around the $2000 mark. And If you re wondering if anyone has been fined this amount for hitting a puddler, the answer is yes.
Sorry to sound like an environmentalist on a mission.
I am very proud of our heritage and how our ancestors calved the australian economy from the earth.
Cheers Ryan
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My memory of puddlers is a little vague now days but if memory serves me I am pretty sure cyanide was used in the process to break up the clay. If this was the case then it stands to reason that cyanide may still be present at some level in close proximity to the old puddlers. If there is an imminent threat to a prospectors health and well being then I would also say stay well clear of working the ground around and down hill from any puddler. I also believe in protecting the heritage of these areas and dont want to give anyone a reason to exclude us from these areas, because of the act of digging around them. If someone could elaborate on the facts of the operation of puddlers I would like to hear from you. Thanks
I love to see the puddlers out in the bush. Everyone has detected them, me included. I only know one bloke that ever got a small piece out of one. Usually they are full of small iron junk.
I don't ever detect anywhere near them anymore. There are a few heritage listed ones getting about, one is still wood-lined and looks terrific.
I've seen a couple destroyed over the years, bit of a shame, but at least they were only smaller insignificant ones and no more important than any old costean. There was no cyanide used in the ones we see out in the bush.
We can't be too green about them. They were gouged into the ground and caused massive damage from the sludge run-off.
But, we still shouldn't touch em and put ourselves in fire from those that would like us out of the bush. We will have enough trouble in future from greenies that won't allow us to touch mullock heaps in the future, and wolves in sheep's clothing calling themselves the PMAV, sucking detectorists into joining, when their sole purpose is really to keep their machinery running and gouging great moonscapes over hectares.
I don't ever detect anywhere near them anymore. There are a few heritage listed ones getting about, one is still wood-lined and looks terrific.
I've seen a couple destroyed over the years, bit of a shame, but at least they were only smaller insignificant ones and no more important than any old costean. There was no cyanide used in the ones we see out in the bush.
We can't be too green about them. They were gouged into the ground and caused massive damage from the sludge run-off.
But, we still shouldn't touch em and put ourselves in fire from those that would like us out of the bush. We will have enough trouble in future from greenies that won't allow us to touch mullock heaps in the future, and wolves in sheep's clothing calling themselves the PMAV, sucking detectorists into joining, when their sole purpose is really to keep their machinery running and gouging great moonscapes over hectares.
Puddlers were constructed after the turn of the century. A lot were used in the 1930 great depression gold rush. The government of the day, handed out basic tools (pans, picks, shovels, etc) with a weeks worth of allowence. There was no economy to speak of, no jobs. The old timers constructed these, they were lined with timber( there is a good example of a restored puddler by the lions club at Whroo field near Rushworth Vic.) a steel or timber post was placed in the centre with a timber beam (branch from a tree) was fixed across the post. A horse was tethered a one end and walked around the puddler.
The other end a large heavy object was tied.( often a tree stump )
Gold bearing clay was put into the puddler. The horse was told to giddy up, the stump would break the clay down.
The old timers usually took the pipe clay off the top of the mullock heaps of the alluvial diggings from the previous gold rush. (hence why you don't find a lot of pipe clay in old diggings Vic laying about)
The Chinese were the main owner operators of puddlers , dams , and water races. In the fields. They would charge a nominal fee for their service.
Puddlers were popular due to the want of water.
I hope this is of some help in explaining how these donuts in the ground worked. Basically they are very old wash plant.
Cheers Ryan
The other end a large heavy object was tied.( often a tree stump )
Gold bearing clay was put into the puddler. The horse was told to giddy up, the stump would break the clay down.
The old timers usually took the pipe clay off the top of the mullock heaps of the alluvial diggings from the previous gold rush. (hence why you don't find a lot of pipe clay in old diggings Vic laying about)
The Chinese were the main owner operators of puddlers , dams , and water races. In the fields. They would charge a nominal fee for their service.
Puddlers were popular due to the want of water.
I hope this is of some help in explaining how these donuts in the ground worked. Basically they are very old wash plant.
Cheers Ryan
Ryan27 said:
Just to clarify - Puddlers were most definitely in use from the start of the gold rushes. I don't dispute they may have still been in use into the early 1900s and the depression era. A quick check of the Vic gold reports is a s follows, and this is a direct quote from 1859:
"Sept 1859: AVOCA DIVISIONNoteThis table comprises only those actually engaged in mining. I estimate the total
population at 8,500. The whole is the result of my own observation. On the Avoca main Lead,
which is principally occupied by puddlers."
Further, this is the breakdown of who was doing what which indicates it was not just the Chinese:
"Europeans
Avoca Main Lead 255 (150 Alluvial mining, 105 puddling)
Four Mile Flat 150 (120 Alluvial mining, 30 puddling)
Petres Diggings 600 (Alluvial mining)
St Arnaud 300 (180 Quartz, 100 Alluvial, 20 puddling)
Mountain Hut 1,330 (1,300 Alluvial mining, 30 puddling)
Amphitheatre 2,255 (2,200 Alluvial, 40 puddling, 15 sluicing)
Green Hills 50 (Alluvial)
Rutherfords Creek 80 (20 Alluvial, 6 Puddling, 14 Sluicing)
Township Reef 5 (Quartz)
TOTAL 5,025 (185 Quartz, 4,580 Alluv, 231 pud, 20 sluicing)
Chinese
Avoca Main Lead 800 (500 Alluvial mining, 300 puddling)
Four Mile Flat 50 (Alluvial mining)
St Arnaud 620 (550 Alluvial mining, 70 puddling)
Amphitheatre 80 (60 Alluvial mining, 20 puddling)
TOTAL 1,550 (1,160 Alluvial mining, 390 puddling)
Total of Europeans and Chinese, 6,575.
"January 1861: MARYBOROUGH DIVISION. Horse puddling machines, 241 (190 at work, 51 idle)."
Hope that clarifies it a bit. They are generally very old. As for detecting ON the puddlers - don't - they are mostly listed as "SIGNIFICANCE RANKING: Sites Listed Heritage Inventory." Around is OK.
Thanks loamer great information, it's taken me six months and lots of reading/studying wandering around to learn hand of what you shared in this thread. Good stuff
Managed to dig up and old sketch from one of my Gold Gen@treasure mags good to visualize how the old puddlers worked. notice the date this was erected
New Ground
I have had some questions asked of me when on the gold when I say I am looking for 'new ground'. What does it mean? Simply put, I am looking for gold in areas that were generally not prospected, were on the edges of known fields and areas that may have proven uneconomical for the old timers. I have a couple of simple points that may act as a guide.
1. Go to an area that has diggings. Look at the mullock heaps and have a scratch around. What did the old timers see? You can usually get some idea of what the original ground was like by looking between the diggings. At times the heaps can be so close this is impossible. But look at what came out and how deep they went. The spoil you see will give you an indication of what the old timers saw and what prompted them to have a crack. They relied on experience and could read the ground. they have also saved you time by leaving their silent advice that 'this area is worth having a go'.
2. Look at areas around but not on the diggings - we are looking for wash. You will hear lots of advice at times that the ground is too deep - yes, but the wash will generally be on or close to the surface.
3. Look for quartz. Now this is a very general rule. Around Dunolly Vic for example you may see little surface quartz but you are in a known gold bearing area. Some places are covered in quartz but no gold. To quote a 1894 Vic Mines report 'There are plenty of Silurian ranges in the gullies of which no payable gold has yet been found, though outcropping reefs are plentiful'. White clear quartz is usually a sign that the quartz was not subject to mineralisation. Best examples are when you are on a reef dump, there is tons of quartz that had no gold.
4. Look for coloured quartz - it is generally been subject to mineralisation. It is an indicator. There is one thing I love to see that I call sandwich quartz- a layer of quartz between outer coverings of ironstone.
5. On the ground, look for ironstone mixed with quartz. Coloured mineralised quartz, ironstone and red coloured hard soil is a good sign.
6. Check the bases of trees to see what the tree is bringing up - it may give you an indication of what is there and also depth.
7. Look for test holes. These are where the old timers have had a look (loamed) to see if the ground is carrying gold. They can be shallow and run in a line. They can also be deep. A trap is that some times a rotted out tree stump can look like a test hole. This is matter of experience to determine what it is. Always remember, prospecting was the old timers life - they did not dig and hunt for nothing.
8. Go with a plan. Don't wander around - think how small in reality a big piece of gold actually is and you may miss it by inches.
These are just general tips and may be of help.
I have had some questions asked of me when on the gold when I say I am looking for 'new ground'. What does it mean? Simply put, I am looking for gold in areas that were generally not prospected, were on the edges of known fields and areas that may have proven uneconomical for the old timers. I have a couple of simple points that may act as a guide.
1. Go to an area that has diggings. Look at the mullock heaps and have a scratch around. What did the old timers see? You can usually get some idea of what the original ground was like by looking between the diggings. At times the heaps can be so close this is impossible. But look at what came out and how deep they went. The spoil you see will give you an indication of what the old timers saw and what prompted them to have a crack. They relied on experience and could read the ground. they have also saved you time by leaving their silent advice that 'this area is worth having a go'.
2. Look at areas around but not on the diggings - we are looking for wash. You will hear lots of advice at times that the ground is too deep - yes, but the wash will generally be on or close to the surface.
3. Look for quartz. Now this is a very general rule. Around Dunolly Vic for example you may see little surface quartz but you are in a known gold bearing area. Some places are covered in quartz but no gold. To quote a 1894 Vic Mines report 'There are plenty of Silurian ranges in the gullies of which no payable gold has yet been found, though outcropping reefs are plentiful'. White clear quartz is usually a sign that the quartz was not subject to mineralisation. Best examples are when you are on a reef dump, there is tons of quartz that had no gold.
4. Look for coloured quartz - it is generally been subject to mineralisation. It is an indicator. There is one thing I love to see that I call sandwich quartz- a layer of quartz between outer coverings of ironstone.
5. On the ground, look for ironstone mixed with quartz. Coloured mineralised quartz, ironstone and red coloured hard soil is a good sign.
6. Check the bases of trees to see what the tree is bringing up - it may give you an indication of what is there and also depth.
7. Look for test holes. These are where the old timers have had a look (loamed) to see if the ground is carrying gold. They can be shallow and run in a line. They can also be deep. A trap is that some times a rotted out tree stump can look like a test hole. This is matter of experience to determine what it is. Always remember, prospecting was the old timers life - they did not dig and hunt for nothing.
8. Go with a plan. Don't wander around - think how small in reality a big piece of gold actually is and you may miss it by inches.
These are just general tips and may be of help.
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What he said !
Great post loamer
Great post loamer
great info
Methodical Prospecting - New Ground (2)
I have scratched around to get a goldfields era perspective of 'new ground'. H.V Rogers 1894 - 'Gold Digger's Guide' pretty well sums up the rules of prospecting that have not changed.
In 1984 Mr Rogers wrote: "First choose your ground: the best hills and gullies for prospecting are those near scattered debris of quartz, ironstone, slate and other sorts of stones. The gullies on the surface might only be covered on the surface, with different sorts of soils, showing no top evidence of the gold which might be beneath in the wash dirt resting on the bottom, although such soil might be termed alluvial. Sometimes the gold is on the hills, frequently on the brows of same, and at other times the leads or patches of alluvial gold may have been swept into the deeper channels of the gullies. The whereabouts of the gold is generally found by energetic and judicious sinking."
In 2013 Loamer says delete 'sinking' and insert 'detecting'. The same rules apply then as now. Remember, these bloke had been at it for nearly 50 years or so and knew a thing or two about reading the ground. The old timers have my utmost respect. No hot pies, cold beer and a shower after a day of digging for them - only rotten old mutton, sly grog and dirty water!
I have scratched around to get a goldfields era perspective of 'new ground'. H.V Rogers 1894 - 'Gold Digger's Guide' pretty well sums up the rules of prospecting that have not changed.
In 1984 Mr Rogers wrote: "First choose your ground: the best hills and gullies for prospecting are those near scattered debris of quartz, ironstone, slate and other sorts of stones. The gullies on the surface might only be covered on the surface, with different sorts of soils, showing no top evidence of the gold which might be beneath in the wash dirt resting on the bottom, although such soil might be termed alluvial. Sometimes the gold is on the hills, frequently on the brows of same, and at other times the leads or patches of alluvial gold may have been swept into the deeper channels of the gullies. The whereabouts of the gold is generally found by energetic and judicious sinking."
In 2013 Loamer says delete 'sinking' and insert 'detecting'. The same rules apply then as now. Remember, these bloke had been at it for nearly 50 years or so and knew a thing or two about reading the ground. The old timers have my utmost respect. No hot pies, cold beer and a shower after a day of digging for them - only rotten old mutton, sly grog and dirty water!
gadgetman45
Derek
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Great stuff
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