Warning Notice from Gold Coast council Re detecting in Parks.

[AtomRat]

I'm reading a lot in the council laws.."..unless with a permit" for public and crown. Its mentioned the same for waterways.. "unless with a permit".

Is this my miners right then over ruling the council law being crown land anyway regardless? I kind of need a straight yes or no for in case when it comes to the crunch.. I'd be rather angst if I find out I cannot detect..

 

[Goldtarget]

If the council owns the land they set the conduct on that land into a local law. They are the authority on the activities you can conduct. Old mate in a park can be issued a fine for contravention of the local law.
If you were issued with a penalty notice you could appeal to the council as an organization to not enforce. If you disagree with their judgment you could go to vcat. No different if you built a shed without a permit. Law states you need a permit. Doesn't mean the internal ruling can't be overturned internally or through vcat.
If you want to change the law it would need to be put through council (internally to executive to councilors as a collective) and they vote.
Clear?

 

[AtomRat]

Isn't the permit the miners right to recover relics as well, not just minerals? I've just stated in a pm, I've had no problems yet, especially at parks as everyone can clearly see the trash of sharp nails, syringes and sharp iron chunks the new tambark always seem to hold now and never causes an issue. Being a member of the historical society also must grant me some sort of rights as well, I guess we have a "verbal agreement" with the council on that one anywhere in my area to secure as many items possible. This also includes where fire and demolitions take place. Not written on paper but it has been mentioned straight to shire through our club. This may give me a reason ( may ) but I'm not liking where its going. So beaches are public places true? Its not clear to me at all

 

[Goldtarget]

Crown lands (other than council owned) would be addressed at a state level by your miners right in theory. Problem is the grey area on how any local (read council) by law is written, in which case they may have a governess across the district that does not distinguish between council, private, and crown lands. Fortunately if council deemed itself the governing body it would be a simple argument to point out they have a very weak case for enforcement, but in theory they can enact a by law to cover conduct within their boundaries.

 

[AngerManagement]

It all comes back to the council and others protecting themselves as to litigation.

If RECOVERY is done correctly - min damage... But then some love to dig massive plugs / cut water lines and leave a mess.

Toss in Camo clothing, sharp dangerous looking digging tools / spades etc lots of beeping and noise AND the average Jo gets a bit concerned. American Diggers have hit town !!!!

Same person of a night with torches and lights flashing and strange beeping - And many a person that has had any issues with theft or trouble makers will be crapping their pants...

You and I may be OK with it; but like many things you need to be able to put your self into the shoes of the other person. And understand what other experiences might have them on edge... Drunks in the park fighting etc AVO issues and they keep seeing some stranger of a night across the road...

People need to consider others and then work out how to work together. To day it seams that no one considers others too much; if it is felt that any actions might put any limits on their own enjoyment... All about self... Txt and Drive = SELF

Oh and then toss in the Ahole that loves to dig holes, leave a mess, get aggro with other members of the public (who have as much right to look out for THEIR park) and or council staff (just doing their job). And YES - I can fully understand how some can not wait to shut it down...

But do not blame ME and or others that try hard to explain or educate others ( People LOVE to shoot the messenger) , look to understand how and why...

Only then can WE work together to try and re educate those that will spoil it for all......

My gut feel - Too many think they can score a retirement fund from a few old coins - thus they are in and out and do not care about any flow on.

Access to public places will get harder and harder...

I am seeing it every day and and places and parks I could once do, now I have been warned / told - NO MORE.

And the only permissions I still have, are places that are not well known to the general detecting public and even when I am detecting at midday - I am not visible to any one via public access.

Tresspasses still try to back door the property, and I can only hope that do on the days, that the police are conducting some of their special training... I have permission and passwords and an access sticker; but they still frighten the crap out of me - when they appear out of nowhere in their swat gear and then start asking questions... First time it happened = I crapped my self, but sucked it back up; until they left me... Then I went home and had a shower

 

[Goldtarget]

We are talking conduct and activities not items retrieved. It's kind of clear as mud. I think you'll find relic laws (state) also prohibit removing relics of a certain age. Pretty murky stuff bud. If you really want to know where you stand cease and desist with that detector lol.

 

[AtomRat]

Cheers mate for the "grey". I can cope with that, as long as its not solid. I'm pretty stupid when it comes to understanding laws but I know that what's written on paper is what's to be read and if theres something missing, then there room for debate. I just cant see the court system getting wasted on such a useless scenario

 

[Goldtarget]

All I can advise is check out what your by laws say, conduct your digs in such a manner as to promote upstanding conduct and retrieve with as close to minimum impact as possible. Try and avoid any heated stouch and I reckon your about 80% of the way home.
Local laws/workers are far less likely to be around during weekends. Be smart and do no harm. Most people will be pretty happy seeing the junk removed but there will always be the do good crowd and the disaffected trying to suck the fun out of everything.

As for solid the law is the law no matter who is governing/enforcing. I'm certainly no expert. You take a chance if you contravene any law no matter how stupid or flimsy it's written.

 

[AngerManagement]

BEACHES - An interesting one.

YES and NO

The main thing here is again holes As it is easy enough to fill, it is not usually a problem...

Also respect of others using the beach. Life savers can ask you to move on and if you refuse - Police can be called...

If you had your kids swimming and wading between the flags and some Detector person walks down and starts detecting in the wet sand and water and swinging a big SS sand scoop = Would you be happy ?

Lack of respect for others: Seen it done more than once...

Go pro camera on detector ( but focused to the side ) and the detector person detects through and around people lying on the beach.. ( It is not finds he is taking pics of )

Detector person, walks over and swings his detector over the towels etc of people that have got up and went in for a swim. ( Low Life)

Gold Coast council have stated in writing

" Stay away from the main populated area's where ever possible AND detect early morning or of an evening. Do not leave holes or a mess and obey any directions given by Surf Lifesavers and or Council officers "

Bit of a duty of care and respect - LOL so many can not do it.

One detector person on the southern end of the GC likes to peg out his claim area with flags and poles on any beach he is detecting. If you have a detector AND even look like getting close to his defined area = Super ARGO

STUPID, I know; but turf wars and bad behaviour is what is hurting it for us...

 

[Goldtarget]

You can add theft by finding.....got to love it hey!

 

[AngerManagement]

OH and for those that like the gray...

What are the rules around mining and or disturbing soil at the base of pylons that hold up a bridge ?

And why are these rules there. Maybe a bit out dated but the intent is to "ensure the bridge supports are never compromised "

Now if you try and pump yabbies OR detect and RECOVER too close to a boat ramp - what can a ranger / council officer say and OR do and under what laws

Again, make perfect sense if you take the time to consider what the outcomes could be and WHO has the water rights

 

[AngerManagement]

Theft by Finding

The key point around this is the terms of LOST and ABANDONED. ( My solicitor spent 3 hrs with me on this - and it is a nightmare)

However it will only come into play; when the person that owned the item, is aware that another has it, and they then make a claim on said item.

If your the finder and never registered the item with the POLICE; as a FOUND item, then there is the chance of a "Theft by Finding" charge.

NOTE: If they do you for one, they could search you property and find others...

 

[AtomRat]

What you've said is basically how I work. I'm not wondering around crowded parks, causing annoyance or harm, all holes literally unidentifyable as the amount of time I put into filling them in, and keep small chat with anyone who asks if I'm 'having any luck', not 'are you allowed to do that', yet.

Its small area, everyone knows everone and what they doo and are quite happy to see interesting hobbies being put at play, and tge history interests many as well, along with the stories they like to share.

Cutting it down to if I can't detect where I usually would from these laws, this cuts me down to only detect creek banks and that's it by the looks of it. And there's nit much along them but trash. If we get technical I guess they are considered crown heritage and all items then need to be left? Its a joke and ill fight it if I had to

I cannot find any direct victorian detecting information such as AM has posted either but its a good guideline for most areas populated. Early morning or late arvo would cause issues for me though, too many wanderers

As for digging around pylons.. not something I'd ever attempt.. that's what's holding the bloody bridge up. I wouldn't agree on digging around them no matter what gold they drop out

 

[rocketaroo]

Wonder if council has the legal right to demand your details, name, address etc?

 

[Heatho]

Wonder if council has the legal right to demand your details, name, address etc?

Exactly, if someone demanded my details I would politely tell them to get stuffed, unless of course they were a police officer, in which case they are allowed to demand ID. Secondly I'd ask them to prove that I was actually digging a hole, which I dont.

Did the guy who got warned have a large digging implement, plug cutter with him? If he did then I can sort of understand why he was warned. People just need to use common sense regarding this stuff. I still only use a screwdriver and pinpointer for this very reason.

I spoke to a bloke that does some detecting the other day and he was warned off by a lady ranger in my area, he was using a digging implement. I have been told by the council workers and rangers I've come into contact with that they had no problem with what I was doing.

I said to one that "I'm not actually digging or causing damage", he just looked at me, then looked at the oval and said "well if you're not making a mess like the soccer teams did on the weekend then I have no problem with you at all", they were his exact words. This is the exact mess they left, they should not have played on such wet ground. I as a ratepayer had to pay for this mess to be fixed..... These 3 pics were taken about a month after the damage was done.

I've only had 1 lady that has told me off and she had no right to do that. Though yes it does only take 1 stupid council employee to be having a bad day and think think they are missing out on something to fine you and ruin your day, probably just power trippers and just plain spoilsports.

As for sports team managers who think they can tell someone to get lost, I took these photos on a Monday morning after a sports team had their Sunday match, absolute grubby pigs is all I can say...... I'd tell them if I ever saw such a mess again I'll be sending the pictures to the local paper of their filthy mess.

Seems the poor detector guy always gets a bad name.

 

[Heatho]

Also I think it depends on the type of park you're detecting, a nice park with finely manicured lawns would definitely be a no go for me, where as a sportsfield sidelines is no worries as the ground is usually soft and the grass grows very quickly.

I'd love to see a photo of the holes he had been digging out of interest.

 

[rocketaroo]

Sport does more damage than we do. People that make the same walking path of their own, over years, and decades, do infinately more damage. Part of me loathes these threads....at the end of the day, it is just bloody grass ffs, the stuff is designed to spread, and stick down new roots, in every bare mm of dirt it can find. Heatho, can you do us a vid, of you coin popping a pre dec, at depth? I dunno how you do it, except for really shallow stuff

 

[Heatho]

Sport does more damage than we do. People that make the same walking path of their own, over years, and decades, do infinately more damage. Part of me loathes these threads....at the end of the day, it is just bloody grass ffs, the stuff is designed to spread, and stick down new roots, in every bare mm of dirt it can find. Heatho, can you do us a vid, of you coin popping a pre dec, at depth? I dunno how you do it, except for really shallow stuff

I usually leave the deeper targets mate, I'd love to cut a plug to remove them but I don't want to upset the council either.....

The way I do it though is to lever the grass apart instead of cutting it, actually cutting the grass runners can kill it even if being very careful, levering with the screwdriver doesn't break or cut the runners, it can look messy while removing a target but it does not generally kill the grass.

Sometimes you can plainly see where I removed a deeper target and packed everything back in but in 3 weeks time you never would have known I was there. Then to bring the level back up so it doesn't leave a depression I lever the edges back in at four points around the hole at a distance of about 1 and a 1/2 inches from the edge back toward the centre, this makes a little raised area which I then stand on when I stand up to level it out again. Can only really be achieved properly in soft dampish soil, in really dry soil it doesn't work as well.

I think the levering back to centre really helps keep the original level intact, sometimes I've seen ovals with little square depressions all over them where plugs have been cut and then settled into a square depression that is quite visible even after the grass grows back, my way leaves no depression at all.

Where as cutting a plug can take a few weeks for the grass to die off and then a month to grow back.

There really is no perfect way to do it but I think my method is pretty good and has never gotten me in trouble with numerous chats to rangers.

I've been meaning to set up a youtube channel so I'll try and get it done soon. I might just do some photo's to help explain it in the meantime.

 

[user 4485]

Wonder if council has the legal right to demand your details, name, address etc?

In NSW at least - yes if they "reasonably suspect" your committing an offence.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/lga1993182/

LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACT 1993 - SECT 680
Demanding name of offender

680 Demanding name of offender

(1) An authorised person who finds a person whom the authorised person reasonably suspects of committing an offence under this Act in a public place, or an offence in respect of which the authorised person may issue a penalty notice under section 224 of theProtection of the Environment Operations Act 1997, may:

(a) demand from the person his or her name and residential address, and

(b) report the offence and the name and residential address of the person to the council as soon as practicable.

(2) The provisions of subsection (1) (b) do not apply to any police officer in respect of an offence under section 650 (use of councils free parking areas).

(3) A person who on demand made as referred to in this section:

(a) refuses to state his or her name or residential address, or

(b) states a name or residential address which in the opinion of the authorised person is false,

may without any other warrant than this Act be apprehended by the authorised person and taken before a Magistrate or authorised officer to be dealt with according to law.

(4) A Magistrate or authorised officer before whom a person is taken under subsection (3) may make a bail decision under theBail Act 2013in respect of the person.

(4A) If the person has not been charged with an offence, theBail Act 2013applies to the person as if the person were accused of an offence.

(5) A person who on demand made as referred to in this section:

(a) refuses to state his or her name or residential address, or

(b) states a false name or residential address,

is guilty of an offence.

Maximum penalty: 5 penalty units.

(6) For the purpose of applying theBail Act2013, an authorised officer has the same functions as an authorised justice under that Act.

(7) In this section:

"authorised officer"means an authorised officer under theCriminal Procedure Act1986.

The section they can get you under:
LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACT 1993 - SECT 629
Injuring or removing plants, animals, rocks and soil in or from public place

629 Injuring or removing plants, animals, rocks and soil in or from public place

(1) A person who, without lawful excuse, wilfully or negligently injures, damages or unnecessarily disturbs any plant, animal, rock or soil in a public place is guilty of an offence.

Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

(2) A person who, without lawful excuse, removes any plant, animal, rock or soil from a public place is guilty of an offence.

Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

 

[cecc]

It's getting hard, especially up here in QLD so many restrictions, I remember when I started going for a dig 20 yrs ago down near the Snowy, had a good little creek I use to go, my mate had a claim out there this was inVic, and things seemed much more relaxed, you could get a miners right for about $5 and just about have a dig anywhere, not now. Around Brisbane I'm flat out finding a place to have a dig, and I only do this for a hobby, because I love it yet our love seems to be restricted more and more what can we do guys, maybe lobby our Premier?

Len