OzzieAu's Recent local finds

[Greenhornet_au]

Mate it is great to see you in the hunt for the origin of this button, I cant wait for the glorious conclusion I sense is coming.

 

[OzzieAu]

This is what the cleanup table looks like when the finds bag is emptied after a day out on the hunt...


Then comes choosing the interesting bits for the cleanup shots...
All good fun.


I reckon I had one of these cap guns as a kid.

 

[grubstake]

I reckon I had one of these cap guns as a kid.
View attachment 3981

I think they were compulsory for us boys growing up in the 50's! Along with Davy Crockett coonskin caps.

 

[MegsyB007]

Hi OzzieAu,

I think if you look a bit closer at your button, you'll see it's not a hound with a bird - it's actually a fox.
This is a fox hunting button. Probably came off a red blazer that they wear at fox hunts.

I've found similar looking ones that were French made buttons, but they had no backmarks to ID them.

Taking a long shot here though... Is that X mark on the back, crossed swords by any chance?
There was a button maker called "Buttons Ltd" that had crossed swords as the backmark. They were established in 1907.

There also appears to be a crown on the back too. Can you clean it up any more to see what's written on it? It may be a royal fox hunt button!


Similar framing and pressed pattern background. Crown and crossed swords mark??


Cheers,
Megsy

 

[OzzieAu]

Thanks for your input Megsy, much appreciated.
This button came from the same site that I found the mid 1800’s fire mark button. https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/threads/a-hard-decision.37805/
So it’s pretty likely it dates from the same period.
I will attempt to get the backmark more detailed,
Cheers..

 

[wiley coyote]

Thanks for your input Megsy, much appreciated.
This button came from the same site that I found the mid 1800’s fire mark button. https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/threads/a-hard-decision.37805/
So it’s pretty likely it dates from the same period.
I will attempt to get the backmark more detailed,
Cheers..

Here's a Hammond and Turner button, of what looks like a rabbit running out of bushes. The back of it seems different than yours. wiley

 

[OzzieAu]

I’ve drawn a dead end with this button.... I can’t ID it after looking at thousands of pics.
This is the best I can do with the feint backmark. It appears to have lettering around the eyelet. Definitely crossed swords and crown also.

 

[user 14190]

Do you know anyone with a sand blaster that uses glass bead or one of the softer media, I use the glass bead at low pressure on bits of older vehicles (Mostly carburettors) that I want to retain as much of the original markings as possible, just a thought.

Graham

 

[Greenhornet_au]

If you are game...

For something that small maybe make a simple soda blaster, as long as you have some compressed air.

I wonder if table salt would work as a fine grit ?

 

[MegsyB007]

I’ve drawn a dead end with this button.... I can’t ID it after looking at thousands of pics.
This is the best I can do with the feint backmark. It appears to have lettering around the eyelet. Definitely crossed swords and crown also.View attachment 4177

Hi again OzzieAu!
I do love a good hunt! And this one has been a real challenge with all sorts of conflicting information! But I think I've found your button maker (I think...).
There is no picture of your button online that I can find - and have I ever looked! But you can only look at so many buttons before you start seeing them in your sleep and I'm done with this one!

So here's what I've discovered. Buttons Ltd of Birmingham has the crossed swords backmark. But you said you think it's earlier than 1907 when they were established by several button companies being merged. And I tended to agree with that too. So I went back to the companies that merged to form Buttons Ltd, and found one of them - Thomas Carlyle (formerly T. Carlyle) was a button maker in Birmingham from 1875, however his firm was registered in 1897 (Probably when it changed from T Carlyle to Thomas Carlyle). And guess what his backmark was on his buttons?

Here are a couple that he made! Notice who he made them for...



When searching the thousands of buttons, there weren't many that had that defined raised border, and this seems to be his style on both your button and the NSW Police button.

Also, if I squint, cross my eyes and tilt my head, I think I see NGL on your button under the swords there E NGL AND?

I think your button may have been one of his earlier ones, rather than later. So somewhere between 1875-1896. But that's just a guess, going by the backmark.
I also read that in 1887 the 'British Merchandise Marks Act' stated that all items manufactured or sold in England had to have the country of origin stamped on them.

As for the crown on it... still a mystery to me. Can't work that out - sorry... That's the best I can come up with mate.

And... I'm out!

Cheers,
Megsy

 

[Manpa]

Great job on the research Megsy.

 

[OzzieAu]

Thanks Megsy..... you’re a forensic supersleuth
Definitely some further avenues to investigate.
I know what ur saying about button image overload
Guys, I think sand / soda / bead blasting may just erase the remaining detail on this fragile artifact.

 

[Skiffed]

Do you know anyone with a sand blaster that uses glass bead or one of the softer media, I use the glass bead at low pressure on bits of older vehicles (Mostly carburettors) that I want to retain as much of the original markings as possible, just a thought.

Graham

I think it is a button from an Australian Army greatcoat. Has been 55 years since I wore one,

 

[OzzieAu]

I think it is a button from an Australian Army greatcoat. Has been 55 years since I wore one,

I think this button pre dates any war that the Australian army was involved in.....
This cunning little fox is certainly a mystery maker.



Anyway, I got to work on the backmark with a metallic quillters pencil to see if I could bring out some more detail.
I now think I can see 4 distinct objects surrounding the loop.
Crossed swords, archer’s bow, some sort of axe (maybe) and a crown.. Unfortunately the lettering is still illegible.
I’ve sent these pics off to another button society for some further help.

 

[MegsyB007]

Awww... Why did you have to go and do that now...?

 

[OzzieAu]

Awww... Why did you have to go and do that now...?

Mad curiosity !
It actually rubs off and a bit of H2O2 and it’s old again.

 

[MegsyB007]

I think I'm going to stick to my thoughts that it was one of his earlier ones. A lot of button makers started off making them in their homes. The fact that he didn't register his firm until 20 years after he started making buttons, seems to point to that possibility. This could have been one of his very early ones prior to the 'Made in England' ruling came in, in 1887.

But just to throw a little spanner in the works, I still haven't been able to shake the little niggle in the back of my mind, that this is a French design - or possibly German. But I keep saying shhh!

Cheers,
Megsy

 

[OzzieAu]

The site I found this button in dates from 1839. It was the first government surveyors hut built to survey a country town location.
I’m thinking like you, its a rare early, limited production example.

 

[OzzieAu]

Some of today’s finds after a clean up.


Love the Viccies !


Cool little motorcycle sidecar...


This old costume ring seems to have an actual dried flower under glass.

 

[user 22230]

Mate that rings "dope" Well done bloke and looks like you had a great day