mig or tig or?

[20x]

seeking some advice/opinions on wich way to go about welding 1.5mm sheet alloy...ive watched a few tig welding vids on youtube and it looks like the way to go?

im prepared to burn $300-400 on a welder...is this price range going to do the job properly?

any info on this would be really appreciated.

cheers scott

 

[Wintersnake]

Ally Tig requires a machine that can weld in AC, you can buy AC/DC machines for tig but they are more expensive. Normal stick/tig machines are DC only, you can weld steel and stainless with these. I recently sold my ACDC 200amp tig for $600 coz I didn't use it enough to justify the cost of gas and bottle hire.

Ally mig can be tricky if you've never seen or been shown how to do it properly but it can be done with a normal mig with a nylon liner.

 

[AngerManagement]

YEP, the ongoing hire and costs of the gas is a killer.

I once had a little colt set; should never have given it away.

 

[HeadsUp]

It's alot cheaper to find a local welder to do it for you

By the time you buy the gear and learn how to do it you could burn $1000 and a hole in your pants

If you find the right place /person it might cost you only $50 -70

 

[Ben78]

Hi 20xwater.

I'm a fabricator and have experience in welding 1.5mm aluminium. My absolute first choice every time for this would be tig. You could do it with mig but it will be a struggle - aluminium has a unique property in that it forms a oxide layer (rust) on the surface that melts at a significantly higher temperature than the aluminium. The AC waveform in the AC tig machines used to weld aluminium effectively cleans this oxide off allowing control in welding the metal. It is possible to weld 1.5 aluminium using a DC tig machine, however it is difficult and the weld appearance will be very rough, even for experienced welders. MIG machines use DC also but on opposite polarity to DC tig so is able to clean the oxides, plus the wire feed effectively pushes the oxides aside. However MIG welds typically run at higher heat input than TIG and can cause issues (holes).

The next part of the issues is being actually able to do it - you need to be able to watch the weld and recognise when it is getting too hot. Something that noobs are quite capable of doing, but it usually takes a lot of practice.

If you intend (and will actually follow through with it) then buying an AC/DC Tig machine can result in many years of fun and frivolity. But realistically once you pay a grand for the machine, and $45 a quarter to hire a bottle of gas (or $400+ outright) then the novelty can wear off quickly.

If you were to advertise on one of the local shopping centre boards for welding work required I'd say you'd find someone that would do a lot of welding for you for a thousand bucks.

 

[G0lddigg@]

second the above comments, i spent alot of money paying fabricators to weld for me for over a year, after speaking with my welders and suppliers Tig was the only real option. You'll see alot of toolboxes that have been made with specifically setup mig with a soft wire feed but the wire can still have a tendency to push through the weld. if your going to make a business out of it its well worth it. if its going to sit there and cost you money every month.... the shine will wear off

I personally spent about $2500 plus sheet to learn
unimig 200amp ac/dc pulse (non digital)$1490 http://www.unimig.com.au/catalogue_product.asp?product=54
foot pedal $200
good tig mask $360
filler, tungsten, collets, etc $300
gas, $75 fill and $18.30 per month pure argon.

I reckon i learn to weld ok after my first half bottle of gas, thats practicing running bead after bead every night for a few days, onto my second and i'm starting to get real happy with my skill.

For me its like painting now take the time to prep the work peice and us the right shape on your tungsten and your laughing.

 

[Ryan27]

I recently priced up a mig specifically for ally, they are getting better now and have a double pulse action. I personally have only welded a couple of bits and pieces using tig ac/dc. I've been looking at diversifying into custom toolboxes for the caravan industry.
You guys are spot on. Unless you intend on serious production then the $$$ for a tig setup would possibly a flash in the pan idea. I tend to outsource aluminium welding when it comes my way.

 

[goldtruck59]

Yep we have a pulse mig and a tig for our ally work. The pulse started at 3K and the tigs are outlined above. Ben78 has summed it up well.

 

[20x]

thanks heaps fella's for everything said, if a $1000 covered the setup then i would but i think you are right and getting the welds done by a fabricator is going to be the way to go. this is going to be interesting because every single part of my new HB design is alloy...no rivets...no plastic at all...challenging and time consuming but it will be worth it!

my new folder arrived today, got it for $85 on ebay...$55 postage

 

[G0lddigg@]

Nice little bender these good to about 600mm x 2mm after that you need to score the bend. Cant wait to see yoir build mate

 

[Goldtarget]

The hard core truth is walking into somewhere and paying for what you receive is pretty good value, very easy and simple. In my mind it's pretty simple sums. Outlay + time spent getting proficient + consumables vs hourly rate. Setting up price will buy you alot of engineering time. If you were serious about learning to tig to supplement an income stream or new career then the cost may be worth having your own gear. I much prefer the idea of letting someone else deal with the headache while I'm putting in a few hours at the workplace to pay for it. Regular stick or mig welding is way cheaper and easier, not least because equipment and consumables are cheap and easy to source. I regularly do my own welding and this works out very cost effective and doesn't take long to do a pretty reasonable job. Things I have made have well and truly paid for the machine and given me much enjoyment value and added skill set. Tig alloy setups are really in a specialized category. Discussing your specific needs with someone able to do the job will put things into perspective price was, a sharp operator should be able to give youa good guide what its worth to have the job done.

 

[backcreek]

[video=480,360]http://youtu.be/n1njyuPBIH0[/video]
[video=480,360]http://youtu.be/fL8X3YVElzY[/video]

 

[20x]

Nice little bender these good to about 600mm x 2mm after that you need to score the bend. Cant wait to see yoir build mate

its fits 750mm...more than long enough for the longest part of my design

 

[20x]

[video=480,360]http://youtu.be/n1njyuPBIH0[/video]
[video=480,360]http://youtu.be/fL8X3YVElzY[/video]

now im just confused :lol:

12 rods for $50 and a propane torch

awsome mate..cheers

definately be thinking about it...if only i could stack coins with it but!

 

[G0lddigg@]

Nice little bender these good to about 600mm x 2mm after that you need to score the bend. Cant wait to see yoir build mate

its fits 750mm...more than long enough for the longest part of my design

Yep but they are not designed to bend full capacity mate too much load will warp the centre of yoir brake unless you keep everything under 1.5mm. Itll do it but youll have big round edged in the middle and tigh bemds on the edge.

I tried using some of that ally weld rod with propane failed miserably lol I kept dropping bits of ally everywhere and none pf the welds ever held long enought to build a set of ruffles.

 

[Ben78]

I recently priced up a mig specifically for ally, they are getting better now and have a double pulse action. I personally have only welded a couple of bits and pieces using tig ac/dc. I've been looking at diversifying into custom toolboxes for the caravan industry.
You guys are spot on. Unless you intend on serious production then the $$$ for a tig setup would possibly a flash in the pan idea. I tend to outsource aluminium welding when it comes my way.

Hey Ryan, have a look at the little Lincoln 180c with the spool gun. I used one to do chassis crack repairs on an aluminium tipper trailer and it worked a treat, didn't even have to run it flat out. Might be a little pricey for production having to use half kilo rolls but had no wire feed issues at all. You could probably set up a spool system to go from full sized rolls down to the little ones anyway.

 

[HeadsUp]

I recently priced up a mig specifically for ally, they are getting better now and have a double pulse action. I personally have only welded a couple of bits and pieces using tig ac/dc. I've been looking at diversifying into custom toolboxes for the caravan industry.
You guys are spot on. Unless you intend on serious production then the $$$ for a tig setup would possibly a flash in the pan idea. I tend to outsource aluminium welding when it comes my way.

Hey Ryan, have a look at the little Lincoln 180c with the spool gun. I used one to do chassis crack repairs on an aluminium tipper trailer and it worked a treat, didn't even have to run it flat out. Might be a little pricey for production having to use half kilo rolls but had no wire feed issues at all. You could probably set up a spool system to go from full sized rolls down to the little ones anyway.

what thickness was the ali ?

if i weld 5 mm Ali plate with MIG and HV fillet i am using around 32 volts arc voltage and 340 amps of juice

the mig torch moves about 4 times faster than when you do steel mig welds

i have seen people using arc voltages that were way too low for ali , it can produce a pretty looking weld with absolutely zero fusion

 

[Tathradj]

The propane method.
I have had a very good result with Durafix.
Trick is to keep every thing clean.
Second is to heat the ally. Not the rod.
Works very well for me.

 

[Ryan27]

The Lincoln welders have always been a little out of my price range. Don't get me wrong when I worked for Caterpillar welding out under ground buckets and their truck bodies, Lincoln was the weapon of choice and boy did they work hard. I am a bit of a novice when it comes to welding ally, however the process is the same as ferrous metal welding. I am doing my research and I am currently designing some products to help fund the purchase I am looking at Unimig at the moment, I already have four Unimig welders and I am extremely happy with them. Here is a product I designed a while back try and guess what it is ?

 

[G0lddigg@]

definitely a pooper scooper