Sorry not havin a go at you wishful but just trying to say what the wifey sees every day . I love your idea of boot camp ,would instill a lot of good traits in the young people of today. Best of all would be compulsory service of a year . It's done in a lot of country's and seems to work well.
Home Invasion
- Thread starter 7.62marksman
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when i first joined the forces in 79 the courts could give the offender a choice of military service (3 years) instead of the big house depending on what the charge was why was that ever stopped or do the judges not use that anymore
I fully agree, but what about the ever increasing amount of kids without parents (wards of state, kids in foster care) or who have parents who don't give a damn and separated parents who just use the kids as a chess piece to get at their partner?
Just seems to be too many problems with not enough solutions. Please do not think i am having a go by saying this, i know teachers cop more than enough crap as it is.
Yes there has always been crime, but it used to seem to have a lot more to do with trying to get by, where as now it seems to have a lot more to do with disgruntled kids or drugs.
Bjay said:
I hear you, I work at a school, I see what is going on everyday. Seems to me that the government system needs a good overhaul. I see what the younger generation get away with, the teachers get so disheartened that they are not permitted to do anything. I remember years ago I was doing a job for a Pest control company and had to go to various homes to do checks, I had people ask me why I was working when you can just go on the dole and get heaps of benefits, also back then the Govt said get pregnant and get $5000 per child... Really ? That there is another part of our problem. Still is, and now the govt is cracking down on the dole etc. we are seeing stuff going on like robbing old folks to get some money to buy "Gear"..read..drugs. So many problems and no one is game to tackle them, you mustn't rock the boat. I would hate to be growing up in today's society.
Cheers
I think we all get a bit disheartened at some point with what's going on nowadays but I guess if you really think about it most people are good people. As Rm said 99 percent of people are good honest folk but it only takes the other 1 percent to make us all wonder what's going on in this essentially good world of ours. 
As a few on here have said teachers do their best but their hands are tied and they have no power what so ever
I take my hat off to them as far as i am conserned that have the hardest job for little reward
I take my hat off to them as far as i am conserned that have the hardest job for little reward
All the pollies are too busy looking after their perks and pensions to worry about us bottom feeders. 8.( Snouts in the trough.
silver
silver
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Well there was about 12 000 unsentenced people in jail on that day, that's a lot of cookies n cream icecream tubs on the shopping list for those people alone. No wonder they used to hang people where n when they caught them in the olden days (vigilante groups) ! 8) :lol:
:lol:
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For a justice system to work there has to be a consequence for committing a crime, at the moment there isn't. Most criminals know that the chances of being incarcerated for an offence is rare and if it does happen it is looked on as an educational holiday where they can hone their criminal skills. Once you commit a serious crime you should forfeit all rights and you should be treated like the criminal you are. Rehabilitation should only be offered for first offenders, after that they have made their choice. The three strikes rule in some US states seems to be working well.
AngerManagement
Repairs + X-pointers
Use them as IED detectors and for mine clearance, rather than our own serving men
And while some may scoff. That is what happened across a number of countries post ww2.
Beaches and countrysides were cleaned by POWs and the German soldiers. Not ideal, but for many it was seen as a fair punishment.
Problem was that at the end of the war most of the remaining German soldiers were only boys.
Not a great movie, but there is one on this subject.
And with home invasions and the lack of respect many of these Crim's have, I recon a full time life long job as a IED detector would serve well.
Yes. I am pissed off for many reasons.
And while some may scoff. That is what happened across a number of countries post ww2.
Beaches and countrysides were cleaned by POWs and the German soldiers. Not ideal, but for many it was seen as a fair punishment.
Problem was that at the end of the war most of the remaining German soldiers were only boys.
Not a great movie, but there is one on this subject.
And with home invasions and the lack of respect many of these Crim's have, I recon a full time life long job as a IED detector would serve well.
Yes. I am pissed off for many reasons.
We need to do something, but like many things, I suspect we exaggerate the blame to be shafted to people like judges and police. It might make us feel better, but goes nowhere to solving the problem.
The graph shows that in the last 10 years our prison population has increased by 55%. Since our population only increased by a small fraction of that amount over that period, it means the police are arresting far more people and judges are imprisoning far more (there seems to be a backlog of unsentenced cases, but at least the people are in gaol and off the streets). So it is not that it is being ignored, this approach is very much being addressed, and in the NT nearly one person in every 1000 of the NT population is in gaol (one in 2500 for Australia as a whole). That is a lot, although it a third higher rate than any western country except the USA (which is three times higher than us but still has a greater crime problem than us) - so one problem is that it really costs to gaol people (if we had the rate of the USA it would really hurt us economically). Feed 'em bread and water and whip them when they complain? It won't sell (most people know someone well who has been inside), mistreatment breeds criminals as in Victorian times, and it makes for a crap value system in a society - a lot of money goes on things like education for young offenders anyway (not educating inside will REALLY help. eh?).
So what is causing the increasing problem, because there obviously is one? Insufficient length of sentences might be one issue. It costs more than $300 a day ($109,500 per year) to keep an adult prisoner in jail, and more than $600 a day ($219,000 per year) to keep a juvenile in detention, so community orders would be favoured on cost, and makes some sense for non-violent crimes (the 39,000 prisoners in full-time custody alone are a real cost - billions already). It is hard to get figures for non-custodial sentences, but figures over the last 3 years figures show no increase in the rate of community orders, despite the rate of custodial sentences increasing 15% over that time, so the judges don't seem to be guilty there either. Perhaps actual average custodial sentence lengths is the issue, but with 44.3% of prisoners released returning to prison within two years, not a huge number of the worst are out of prison long.
I doubt prison will solve the problem - there is something else wrong. Maybe schools are part of the problem but I have doubts that is a major issue (parents perhaps more so) - I went to a crappy violent school with numerous untrained and sadistic teachers in an area where less than 30% of the population had a job, but many came out of it a bit better than their parents' generation (school was sort of baby-sitting for crims but the few good teachers made a difference). My family work with drug-affected people, and Australians are stars worldwide when it comes to consuming heavy drugs, and you need money to feed a heavy habit (more than many jobs can pay), you have trouble keeping jobs, and you care less about consequences of what you do, and with things like crack the drugs themselves can make you violent. Hiwever cracking down on drug use or availabilty probably does little except make them more expensive and cost us a lot of police time that is therefore not spent tracking down other crims - I doubt if cracking down on drugs will solve the increasing crime rate itself. 55% of Australian prison entrants have used meths, heroine or other opiates in the last 12 months prior to admission, much higher than the average in the poulation. In the USA half the prison population is actually only in prison for drug-related crime in terms of dealing or consumption - they are much heavier on gaoling for consumption alone, which probably accounts for much of their higher prison population, coupled with greater poverty despite being a rich nation. I suspect if we added alcoholism stats to prison entrants as well we would get a very high figure, but it is easier to be a cheap drunk so less likely to be as major a cause of pre-meditated crime at least. I think the question we have to ask is why do people use hard drugs (and alcohol) in such quantity in Australia? One clue might be that Aboriginals make up about 2.5-5% of the population but 25% of the prison population, despite fewer being hard drug users. Racists can give their own reasons, but I suspect that the high indigenous figure primarily reflects feeling absolute crap about your life (the huge aboriginal suicide rate suggests the same) - before we came they were societies with rigidly policed standards and customs (for those who want to claim it is genetic). And I suspect that this is true of many crims in general. So perhaps we can most effectively lower the crime rate by addressing issues related to hard drugs and youngsters feeling crap about their lives (there is still hope with youngsters at least). People talk about "bleeding hearts" but it is interesting that countries that address some of these issues better (eg Norway, Denmark) are not noted for a high level of violent crime, and yet only have a third of Australia's prison rates. And I would prefer to live in a country where most people feel good about their lives - and I am not convinced feeling good is a direct function of income world-wide (some of the happiest societies I have seen have been fairly poor with relatively low crime). So as well as adressing the young more, we might ask why do so many people feel this way?
Yeah, I know - another bloody bleeding heart. But I feel just the same as everyone else about scumbags who assault the elderly etc. However sometimes what we think is the obvious solution is exactly the opposite - prisons also train criminals and encourage drug use, and figures above suggest that we can't shaft it dominantly to police or judges not doing their job (on average), and that despite dramatically increasing imprisonment it is not solving the problem (not gaoling is not a good solution either, but a multi-pronged approach seems justified). From what I have seen around the world (42 countries over nearly 70 years), places with low crime seem to be those in which people are reasonably happy and where the minimum basic needs are met (extreme poverty never helps), but importantly - in which everyone feels they have a place in their society that is recognised. Maybe what we are doing wrong is as simple as that - that we isolate people too much in our sort of society, don't value each individual enough, and don't listen enough when people need to be listened to - that we need to look at our value system as a country, not just at increasing our material "standard of living". And the values of parents tend to become the values of the next generation.
The graph shows that in the last 10 years our prison population has increased by 55%. Since our population only increased by a small fraction of that amount over that period, it means the police are arresting far more people and judges are imprisoning far more (there seems to be a backlog of unsentenced cases, but at least the people are in gaol and off the streets). So it is not that it is being ignored, this approach is very much being addressed, and in the NT nearly one person in every 1000 of the NT population is in gaol (one in 2500 for Australia as a whole). That is a lot, although it a third higher rate than any western country except the USA (which is three times higher than us but still has a greater crime problem than us) - so one problem is that it really costs to gaol people (if we had the rate of the USA it would really hurt us economically). Feed 'em bread and water and whip them when they complain? It won't sell (most people know someone well who has been inside), mistreatment breeds criminals as in Victorian times, and it makes for a crap value system in a society - a lot of money goes on things like education for young offenders anyway (not educating inside will REALLY help. eh?).
So what is causing the increasing problem, because there obviously is one? Insufficient length of sentences might be one issue. It costs more than $300 a day ($109,500 per year) to keep an adult prisoner in jail, and more than $600 a day ($219,000 per year) to keep a juvenile in detention, so community orders would be favoured on cost, and makes some sense for non-violent crimes (the 39,000 prisoners in full-time custody alone are a real cost - billions already). It is hard to get figures for non-custodial sentences, but figures over the last 3 years figures show no increase in the rate of community orders, despite the rate of custodial sentences increasing 15% over that time, so the judges don't seem to be guilty there either. Perhaps actual average custodial sentence lengths is the issue, but with 44.3% of prisoners released returning to prison within two years, not a huge number of the worst are out of prison long.
I doubt prison will solve the problem - there is something else wrong. Maybe schools are part of the problem but I have doubts that is a major issue (parents perhaps more so) - I went to a crappy violent school with numerous untrained and sadistic teachers in an area where less than 30% of the population had a job, but many came out of it a bit better than their parents' generation (school was sort of baby-sitting for crims but the few good teachers made a difference). My family work with drug-affected people, and Australians are stars worldwide when it comes to consuming heavy drugs, and you need money to feed a heavy habit (more than many jobs can pay), you have trouble keeping jobs, and you care less about consequences of what you do, and with things like crack the drugs themselves can make you violent. Hiwever cracking down on drug use or availabilty probably does little except make them more expensive and cost us a lot of police time that is therefore not spent tracking down other crims - I doubt if cracking down on drugs will solve the increasing crime rate itself. 55% of Australian prison entrants have used meths, heroine or other opiates in the last 12 months prior to admission, much higher than the average in the poulation. In the USA half the prison population is actually only in prison for drug-related crime in terms of dealing or consumption - they are much heavier on gaoling for consumption alone, which probably accounts for much of their higher prison population, coupled with greater poverty despite being a rich nation. I suspect if we added alcoholism stats to prison entrants as well we would get a very high figure, but it is easier to be a cheap drunk so less likely to be as major a cause of pre-meditated crime at least. I think the question we have to ask is why do people use hard drugs (and alcohol) in such quantity in Australia? One clue might be that Aboriginals make up about 2.5-5% of the population but 25% of the prison population, despite fewer being hard drug users. Racists can give their own reasons, but I suspect that the high indigenous figure primarily reflects feeling absolute crap about your life (the huge aboriginal suicide rate suggests the same) - before we came they were societies with rigidly policed standards and customs (for those who want to claim it is genetic). And I suspect that this is true of many crims in general. So perhaps we can most effectively lower the crime rate by addressing issues related to hard drugs and youngsters feeling crap about their lives (there is still hope with youngsters at least). People talk about "bleeding hearts" but it is interesting that countries that address some of these issues better (eg Norway, Denmark) are not noted for a high level of violent crime, and yet only have a third of Australia's prison rates. And I would prefer to live in a country where most people feel good about their lives - and I am not convinced feeling good is a direct function of income world-wide (some of the happiest societies I have seen have been fairly poor with relatively low crime). So as well as adressing the young more, we might ask why do so many people feel this way?
Yeah, I know - another bloody bleeding heart. But I feel just the same as everyone else about scumbags who assault the elderly etc. However sometimes what we think is the obvious solution is exactly the opposite - prisons also train criminals and encourage drug use, and figures above suggest that we can't shaft it dominantly to police or judges not doing their job (on average), and that despite dramatically increasing imprisonment it is not solving the problem (not gaoling is not a good solution either, but a multi-pronged approach seems justified). From what I have seen around the world (42 countries over nearly 70 years), places with low crime seem to be those in which people are reasonably happy and where the minimum basic needs are met (extreme poverty never helps), but importantly - in which everyone feels they have a place in their society that is recognised. Maybe what we are doing wrong is as simple as that - that we isolate people too much in our sort of society, don't value each individual enough, and don't listen enough when people need to be listened to - that we need to look at our value system as a country, not just at increasing our material "standard of living". And the values of parents tend to become the values of the next generation.
Goldierocks i completely agree ...well said.
AngerManagement
Repairs + X-pointers
"Yeah, I know - another bloody bleeding heart. But I feel just the same as everyone else about scumbags who assault the elderly etc. However sometimes what we think is the obvious solution is exactly the opposite - prisons also train criminals and encourage drug use, and figures above suggest that we can't shaft it dominantly to police or judges not doing their job (on average), and that despite dramatically increasing imprisonment it is not solving the problem (not gaoling is not a good solution either, but a multi-pronged approach seems justified). From what I have seen around the world (42 countries over nearly 70 years), places with low crime seem to be those in which people are reasonably happy and where the minimum basic needs are met (extreme poverty never helps), but importantly - in which everyone feels they have a place in their society that is recognised. Maybe what we are doing wrong is as simple as that - that we isolate people too much in our sort of society, don't value each individual enough, and don't listen enough when people need to be listened to - that we need to look at our value system as a country, not just at increasing our material "standard of living". And the values of parents tend to become the values of the next generation."
Agree...
Respect and Rights - But they are also earned and importantly the Rights of one - Should not come at the expense of others. And having also lived and worked in many places - some of the poorest appear to be the happiest They have enough issues getting food for each day, rather than jumping off a Bridge because their FB post did not get enough likes...
So many seem to think their rights over ride the rights of others.. Just look at the roads and the way some drive
Respect and Rights are a TWO way street and then there are Morals and Ethics - And these things should trump any Race or Religious issues.
End of RANT.
PS. A BIG thank you to ONE member here as his support have helped myself and my wife... And for no other reason than he felt that he could give a little of his time and experience....
Not for $ or Bragging rights but because he could.. A big shout out to him...
Once it comes together, I will provide more detail should he be happy with that.
Agree...
Respect and Rights - But they are also earned and importantly the Rights of one - Should not come at the expense of others. And having also lived and worked in many places - some of the poorest appear to be the happiest
They have enough issues getting food for each day, rather than jumping off a Bridge because their FB post did not get enough likes...So many seem to think their rights over ride the rights of others.. Just look at the roads and the way some drive
Respect and Rights are a TWO way street and then there are Morals and Ethics - And these things should trump any Race or Religious issues.
End of RANT.
PS. A BIG thank you to ONE member here as his support have helped myself and my wife... And for no other reason than he felt that he could give a little of his time and experience....
Not for $ or Bragging rights but because he could.. A big shout out to him...
Once it comes together, I will provide more detail should he be happy with that.
AngerManagement said:
It happened, but just for the record:
Compelling a prisoner of war to serve in the forces of the hostile power is a grave breach, according to the Third Geneva Convention. Unless he volunteers, employing a POW on unhealthy or dangerous labor is banned. The Third Convention specifies that the removal of mines or similar devices shall be considered as dangerous labor. POWs also cannot be forced to do dangerous work or work for which they are physically unsuited; they can only be forced to work in sectors that are not military in nature or purpose".
It is a breach of the Geneva Convention, a war crime and those doing it are officially classed as war criminals throughout the world, even if prosecutions are rare. And what we do to our prisoners can be expected to be done to our imprisoned service-people (soldiers are not viewed as criminals who need to be punished but as enemy combatants to be defeated or restrained). So logically, if you do it to criminals, expect more of them to do it to you - violence breads violence. Treating people fairly and non-violently never made people violent.
AngerManagement said:"Yeah, I know - another bloody bleeding heart. But I feel just the same as everyone else about scumbags who assault the elderly etc. However sometimes what we think is the obvious solution is exactly the opposite - prisons also train criminals and encourage drug use, and figures above suggest that we can't shaft it dominantly to police or judges not doing their job (on average), and that despite dramatically increasing imprisonment it is not solving the problem (not gaoling is not a good solution either, but a multi-pronged approach seems justified). From what I have seen around the world (42 countries over nearly 70 years), places with low crime seem to be those in which people are reasonably happy and where the minimum basic needs are met (extreme poverty never helps), but importantly - in which everyone feels they have a place in their society that is recognised. Maybe what we are doing wrong is as simple as that - that we isolate people too much in our sort of society, don't value each individual enough, and don't listen enough when people need to be listened to - that we need to look at our value system as a country, not just at increasing our material "standard of living". And the values of parents tend to become the values of the next generation."
Agree...
Respect and Rights - But they are also earned and importantly the Rights of one - Should not come at the expense of others. And having also lived and worked in many places - some of the poorest appear to be the happiest
So many seem to think their rights over ride the rights of others.. Just look at the roads and the way some drive
Respect and Rights are a TWO way street and then there are Morals and Ethics - And these things should trump any Race or Religious issues.
End of RANT.
PS. A BIG thank you to ONE member here as his support have helped myself and my wife... And for no other reason than he felt that he could give a little of his time and experience....
Not for $ or Bragging rights but because he could.. A big shout out to him...
Once it comes together, I will provide more detail should he be happy with that.
Not a rant - sounds reasonable, and glad things are working out. Yes, the poor do have to find food each day - but that is tied in with having a purpose, and having that purpose recognised - something you have done here for the person who helped you. One thing I have noticed is how people tend to cooperate more in the outback - everyone's hand is needed to solve problems, most people feel good doing it, most people give them credit for doing it and return the favour...it is almost expected as a way of life. There is a lot of satisfaction in living that way, and you don't have to be a "bleeding heart" or Marxist to do so. It has its pay-off - it is just what many people do (and more people need to do). Respect, rights AND responsibilities are required of and for everyone in a society that works well.
If the oxygen thieves making and selling the drugs are deprived of air , they can't sell the crap any more; conseqenses for their actions.
This is the write up in the local paper i thought he was in his 70s my mistake (looks older) i am sorry about that
A man has been hospitalised after an aggravated break and enter at Nowra on Wednesday, January 4.
At about 8am on Wednesday a 55 year old man was inside his bedroom on East Street, when he heard a knock at the door.
Police have been told the man answered the door and two men pushed him to the ground and demanded money.
While on the ground, he was further assaulted before the intruders left.
They were last seen running north across East Street.
Emergency services were contacted and the injured man was treated at the scene by NSW Ambulance paramedics before being taken to Shoalhaven Hospital with facial injuries and bruising to his back and neck.
Police from Shoalhaven Local Area Command commenced an investigation and would like to speak to two males who may be able to assist with their inquiries.
The first male is described as being of Caucasian appearance, aged 18 to 25, between 180-190cm tall, of medium build and wearing dark clothing and a grey back pack.
The second male is described as being of Caucasian appearance, about 170-175cm tall, of sold build with a goatee beard. He was seen wearing dark clothing.
Anyone with dash cam footage or who witnessed the males running across East Street/Princes Highway is urged to come forward.
A man has been hospitalised after an aggravated break and enter at Nowra on Wednesday, January 4.
At about 8am on Wednesday a 55 year old man was inside his bedroom on East Street, when he heard a knock at the door.
Police have been told the man answered the door and two men pushed him to the ground and demanded money.
While on the ground, he was further assaulted before the intruders left.
They were last seen running north across East Street.
Emergency services were contacted and the injured man was treated at the scene by NSW Ambulance paramedics before being taken to Shoalhaven Hospital with facial injuries and bruising to his back and neck.
Police from Shoalhaven Local Area Command commenced an investigation and would like to speak to two males who may be able to assist with their inquiries.
The first male is described as being of Caucasian appearance, aged 18 to 25, between 180-190cm tall, of medium build and wearing dark clothing and a grey back pack.
The second male is described as being of Caucasian appearance, about 170-175cm tall, of sold build with a goatee beard. He was seen wearing dark clothing.
Anyone with dash cam footage or who witnessed the males running across East Street/Princes Highway is urged to come forward.
