GVM issues in tow vehicles

[condor22]

So here are the figures on my van

Firstly, when I bought the van, I had a ball weight device and with no water in it or anything I added, it was 150kg. So the rating plate shows 135kg. I have no idea at what point in its life the van was was weighed to give the figures on the plate. Many weigh them as soon as it's finished in the factory, then they add accessories before delivering it. When that happens, it definitely gives a false sense of security to the owner as those figures are meaningless.

The van was a show model, so the items on it when I bought the van are; LED TV, Aircon, 1 x 4.5kg LPG (empty), Winegard type antenna, Stereo, outside fold down table, awning.

What I've added; 2 x 100W solar @ 3kg ea, Victron solar controller, Satking, 240VAC smart charger (rather than the crappy power supply), a 2nd 4.5kg LPG in the front boot ,diesel heater and 10lt tank in front boot. Then melamine crockery, Doona, Pillows, 2 x saucepans, frypan, sat dish and tripod. Other items like towels etc, plus food and clothes and a little in the ensuite. Nothing of any great weight and I estimate my total add is less than 60kg. Then another 60kg for the 1 x water tank. I weighed my wheels recently at 815kg (fridge side) and 760kg on the other = 1575. That was no food or clothing in the van, but water tank full.

However, by balancing the van front to rear (past experience) I can get the ball to 150kg. I need to take this from the ATM of 1800 = 1650kg which is a slightly lower GTM than the plate. Take from this my wheel weight of 1575 and I'm left with 75kg. Then I add food and clothes.

My next trip will be in about 2 weeks, once I have the car and van fully loaded, I intend to weigh them with the Reich scales I have. Then as soon as I am able put it on a weigh bridge to check again. This check will give me more confidence that the Reich are doing their job. The plus with them is that on a weigh bridge I only get axle weights, where with the Reich I get individual wheel weights to check L/R balance. It will be a week or 3, but I'll post the results.

 

[condor22]

As an aside, my measured wheel weight was 1575kg, take from this 60kg for water = 1515kg. The rated wheel weight is 1330kg and I am absolutely sure that I have not added 185kg of gear. Go figure;

My advice to anyone towing anything regularly is once you have it set up, ready to go, fully loaded and with all passengers in it - Put it over a weighbridge.

If you get pinged on the road, it's you that wears it, not the bloody manufacturer.

Edit - I'd also advise anyone thinking of buying a van very close to the tug limits, to get things weighed before you spend, don't rely on the rating plate, or dealer's "it'll be ok".

 

[Ridge Runner]

Jeez Condor that's a bit of a shambles Ay, I don't know why they can't treat it like a car trailer or a horsebox respectively as in as long as you don't exceed you maximum combination weight then things would be fine but the manufacturer cuts corners which makes the build a lot weaker than one would expect, So I guess these things are just not made properly.

In the long run a person would be better off buying a Closed in Trailer and convert that for living in, then you would still have 1500/2000kgs to play with.

 

[condor22]

Jeez Condor that's a bit of a shambles Ay, I don't know why they can't treat it like a car trailer or a horsebox respectively as in as long as you don't exceed you maximum combination weight then things would be fine but the manufacturer cuts corners which makes the build a lot weaker than one would expect, So I guess these things are just not made properly.

In the long run a person would be better off buying a Closed in Trailer and convert that for living in, then you would still have 1500/2000kgs to play with.

I like the thought, but I am a creature of comfort.

I've done the freezing tent, the tent that blew down in a rainy gale (with me in it), I've done the camper that leaked in a rain storm causing us to decamp at 3 a.m. and go home. The camper the bed support bars that the wind was so fierce it lifted both me and the wife high enough for the supports to fall out and us in a screaming heap on the ground, Heck, I've even done a bloody parachute on a Malaysian mountain (not by choice). I'm well past that crap.

So a bit of thought, a weigh in and a bit of math and I'm a happy chappy

 

[Lesgold]

Hi C22,

I agree with you about checking your weights on a weigh bridge when fully loaded. I use a system that gives me all of my weights with a few simple calculations. When the ute and van are fully loaded, I take the Dmax down to my local tip and run it over the weigh bridge. This will give me my GVM ( minus tow ball weight). I will then drive home and pick up the van. When I get back to the weigh bridge, I only drive the ute on to the bridge which will then read my overall GVM. There will be a difference between the two weights equal to the tow ball weight. I then drive forward so that the van is on and the ute is off the bridge. This gives me the GTM. For the ATM I just add the ball weight to the GTM. Sound confusing? Well Im getting dizzy just thinking about it. I produced a form that contains all of the data that I need. I write the info down as I get it at the weigh bridge and then do the calculations required later. I keep this log in the ute so that if Im pulled over, I can at least show that Ive attempted to keep the rig legal. (And I know it will be) I use this method at the weigh bridge as it means I dont have to unhitch. People can get a bit shirty if you keep them waiting. It costs me nothing to weigh the van. A weigh bridge certificate will cost you if you want the print out. I reckon this whole system was designed by politicians. Its an absolute minefield that can catch you out so easily. Many people who tow smaller vans shouldnt have too many issues (depending on the tow vehicle) but once you get into the new class of semi or off road vans, the weight issues can kill you. If you look at the rigs that do the lap of Australia, (4x4, large van with the boat on top of the truck) many of them would be well over weight. Its a pity that the whole system wasnt a bit easier to sort out.

Cheers

Les

 

[condor22]

Les,

I do it slightly different, so that I only do one trip. I tow the van to the weighbridge.

1. Car front axle. (with van) = FA
- Drive FWD
2. Car both axles (with van) =GVM with van
- Drive FWD
3. Car and van, all axles = GCM
4. Then I find a spot, disconnect and drive the car onto the weighbridge and get its GVM without the van. (Here you could do a front axle weight as well)

Then it's a bit of Math

Rear axle load with van = item 2 minus item 1
Ball Weight = item 2 minus item 4
Van GTM = item 3 minus item 2
Van ATM = GTM + Ball weight

If you do a front axle load at item 4, you can again calculate both axles and total GVM, so you have data with and without the van and can see the effect on both axles with and without the van.

*** Depending on how busy the weighbridge is, I've lined it up, put the car on and done items 1 & 2. Then fit the jockey and raise enough to be off the car and weighed item 4.
Then lowered the van, removed the jockey and driven FWD to do item 3. One trip and easy to do van/no van

 

[travelergold]

Another thing is the gross massof your vehicle. The front axle may be, lets say 1800kg, the rear axle say 2500kg so that adds to 3300kg but the gross is on plate 3000kg. The plate just shows max load per axle alowable.

 

[condor22]

I noted that on a previous post Traveler

 

[Goldchaser1]

This is worth a read in reguards to overloading and driving in remote areas,i see alot float through Kal every year,some look fine but then you see the odd dual cab with a custom canopy fitted out with all sorts of stuff and then a van on the back,alot of the newer dual cabs have to much weight thrown on them behind the rear wheels......

https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/bent-utes

 

[Trash]

Ive had a 32 foot 5th Wheeler & an Iveco Daily from 2009 - 2013

The combined weight ( tare was 7300kg )

Also had a 30ft Caravan & 2013 BT50 4WD

The legislation in most states is different on GCM / GVM etc

Got pulled over in NT said I needed this & this and cant have that , then seen the rego. was Victorian & all of this & that etc doesnt apply registered in Vic .

90% of Grey ***** travellers combined vehicle GCMs would be over weight .

The silly thing is that whilst a new vehicle might say it can tow up to 2500kg / 3000kg legally , the actually vehicle will struggle ...!!

 

[Jaros]

This is worth a read in reguards to overloading and driving in remote areas,i see alot float through Kal every year,some look fine but then you see the odd dual cab with a custom canopy fitted out with all sorts of stuff and then a van on the back,alot of the newer dual cabs have to much weight thrown on them behind the rear wheels......

https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/bent-utes

Very good read -spend a few minutes it's worth it.

 

[user 14190]

That 'Whichcar.com.au/reviews/bent-utes' is possibly one of the best reads and most informative I have seen. Know of a Colarado that has had the chassis welded and it just has full sized aluminium work boxes on rear both sides. I drove it once and it frightened me and it has the air bags which keep bursting under the load. This makes me happy with my 850kg tare weight old Viscount and a few detectors in the back of the Pajero, just need a place that's comfy to sleep and meals and out of the weather. :Y: :Y: :Y:

Graham

 

[Ridge Runner]

I don't know why any one would want to Tow a 30ft van anyway, 20ft is about as large as a person would want to Tow repeatedly, That's where F-100's and F-250/350's come in to their own, being big enough to deal with the weight and having the power to skull drag then up hill over dale.

 

[Trash]

I don't know why any one would want to Tow a 30ft van anyway, 20ft is about as large as a person would want to Tow repeatedly, That's where F-100's and F-250/350's come in to their own, being big enough to deal with the weight and having the power to skull drag then up hill over dale.

True - my 30ft Van only weighed 2350kg ....

And when you are travelling full time ( 2 people ) depending on your partners tastes etc. space is needed ....

 

[Ridge Runner]

I don't know why any one would want to Tow a 30ft van anyway, 20ft is about as large as a person would want to Tow repeatedly, That's where F-100's and F-250/350's come in to their own, being big enough to deal with the weight and having the power to skull drag then up hill over dale.

True - my 30ft Van only weighed 2350kg ....

And when you are travelling full time ( 2 people ) depending on your partners tastes etc. space is needed ....

That's a beast, I should imagine by now you have worked out the Do's and Don'ts of hauling a big Trailer,

When you set off on your travels how much distance do you try to cover per day ? Towing anything that big can wear someone out pretty quickly, :Y:

 

[OzzieAu]

This baby will do me any day. ower:
https://youtu.be/ibsHucBPSqk

 

[Ridge Runner]

This baby will do me any day. ower:
https://youtu.be/ibsHucBPSqk

They don't come much better :Y:

 

[RM Outback]

This baby will do me any day. ower:
https://youtu.be/ibsHucBPSqk

That's my goal ower: :Y:

 

[Ded Driver]

This baby will do me any day. ower:
https://youtu.be/ibsHucBPSqk

Thats an awesome outfit hey. Theirs is one of the few 'reality' shows on tv I find worth watching.
True Aussie build .. unlike some of the ridiculous vehicles you see put together in the USA, this 4WD is meant for business & is practical for everyday use. Would like to know how much :money: :money: :money: went into it

 

[RM Outback]

The vehicle and van plates say it will tow it but :8 Roma stuffed up in a big way :| must be due to the 90 years and now alzheimer's seems to have set in :argh:
https://www.caravancampingsales.com.au/editorial/details/court-orders-refund-for-overweight-caravan-123788/