Vehicle Weights and Towing

[Phoenix76]

G'day to all you Adventurers and Gold Seekers out there.

This is a very interesting thread, and a vital reminder of the dangers we may face if we do not take care in calculating our weights. Like most of you, I have seen many car/ute/caravan/trailer combinations that give you goosebumps.

As a truckie, the whole weight thing is crucial in our business. Whilst a caravanner might get a warning, we get big fines. Just imagine a fine of say $3.000 coming out of your weeks pay packet. Mum would be horrified. We have similar problems to caravanners. We calculate our weights very carefully, but if the people loading your truck get it wrong, you are in trouble because the authorities put the blame straight back at the truck driver. If you want to fight it all the way up the chain of command, then you had better have a big wallet.

And unfortunately, the powers that be know full well that most truckies will just cop it sweet. They just can't afford to fight it.

I sincerely hope that all the caravanners on this forum read this thread and take appropriate action to ensure their rig is weight complaint. Nothing worse than driving down the highway at 40tonnes and more, and then coming across a van that is swaying and swerving in front of you. If I hit them, they are probably dead. I will be put through the wringer to try and prove I was doing the right thing.

Tank you Condor22 for a bloody great post. Cheers

 

[Ridge Runner]

G'day to all you Adventurers and Gold Seekers out there.

This is a very interesting thread, and a vital reminder of the dangers we may face if we do not take care in calculating our weights. Like most of you, I have seen many car/ute/caravan/trailer combinations that give you goosebumps.

As a truckie, the whole weight thing is crucial in our business. Whilst a caravanner might get a warning, we get big fines. Just imagine a fine of say $3.000 coming out of your weeks pay packet. Mum would be horrified. We have similar problems to caravanners. We calculate our weights very carefully, but if the people loading your truck get it wrong, you are in trouble because the authorities put the blame straight back at the truck driver. If you want to fight it all the way up the chain of command, then you had better have a big wallet.

And unfortunately, the powers that be know full well that most truckies will just cop it sweet. They just can't afford to fight it.

I sincerely hope that all the caravanners on this forum read this thread and take appropriate action to ensure their rig is weight complaint. Nothing worse than driving down the highway at 40tonnes and more, and then coming across a van that is swaying and swerving in front of you. If I hit them, they are probably dead. I will be put through the wringer to try and prove I was doing the right thing.

Tank you Condor22 for a bloody great post. Cheers

I'm lucky because I have an excess of load weight spare in the van/camper and the Caravan I want is made from GRP and only weights 580kgs unladen and grosses 850kgs, Another one I looked at can carry 430kgs add that to the calculated 775kgs is over 1200kgs going up for grabs, Reality is with fridges and spare batteries and food and LPG I would never get anywhere near 350kgs unless I was living in the thing.

I don't need the excess seating so I removed the back row that gave me another 46.6 kgs which roughly equals 2 deep cycle batteries @24.3kgs each = 48.6kgs, At first I was a little P'd off at the low towing weight but then I looked at the load weight and it all made sense.

The Ball weight was another thing I had issue with but for a smallish vehicle it is more than enough and even with a small caravan equals 12.9% so I am good with that, I don't know why they make so many Caravans so damn heavy with so little load capacity.

 

[condor22]

I guess my setup highlights the difference between what you are allowed to tow and what you actually have.

Although my <1800kg van is only 60% of the allowed 3000kg tow load, my other loads put the tug within 2-3% of GVM and the van at 1-2% of ATM even though GCM is nowhere near its limit.

In other words its not just one criterion, they all need to be addressed. I do know one biggy for truckies is axle load. The actual load may be well within all other overall limits, but exceed axle load if not placed in the best place to distribute load. This also, to a lesser degree, needs to be considered on our smaller setups.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I guess my setup highlights the difference between what you are allowed to tow and what you actually have.

Although my <1800kg van is only 60% of the allowed 3000kg tow load, my other loads put the tug within 2-3% of GVM and the van at 1-2% of ATM even though GCM is nowhere near its limit.

In other words its not just one criterion, they all need to be addressed. I do know one biggy for truckies is axle load. The actual load may be well within all other overall limits, but exceed axle load if not placed in the best place to distribute load. This also, to a lesser degree, needs to be considered on our smaller setups.

Yeah it's funny how your Tug is near the limit yet your Trailer has room to spare, I did find a lighter weight trailer that will allow me to Haul around 1500kgs,

Thats right about load placement, It not a thing we pay much mind to until you started this thread, seems like they are always inventing a way to catch us out but people are their own worst enemy, you only have to watch those towing around holiday time to see the moving violation.

 

[goldtrapper]

I had a Series 3 Stage 1 Landrover. It was rated to tow 4500kg with the worlds worst shittiest drum brakes all round.
I had to sell it as the fear of being squished when towing 3500kg became too great as It just would not stop in a hurry.
But there you go all road legal.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I had a Series 3 Stage 1 Landrover. It was rated to tow 4500kg with the worlds worst shittiest drum brakes all round.
I had to sell it as the fear of being squished when towing 3500kg became too great as It just would not stop in a hurry.
But there you go all road legal.

Yeah they weren't the best, I had an Ex Army series 2A that someone fitted a 186 in to, It wasn't very fast but it did all I asked of it, I am now looking at an Ex Army Land Rover 101FC ( Forward Control )Ambulance with a V8 in it, They can carry about 1700kgs and Tow a heap more.

Like This,

Heres a bit of a Video,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxW7x71di94

 

[goldtrapper]

You'll be able to cart yourself to horsepiddle in that!

 

[Solid Luck]

Hey all. Some advice please. I'm a simpleton when it comes to towing an am trying to figure out if I'd need electric brakes for this trailer. Have not spoken to the sales yard yet and would like some advice from members here to compare what they say to me.
I'll be using a MR Triton to tow with.
Here's the trailer.

https://www.trailertrailers.com.au/...rdening-trailer-with-open-mower-box-for-sale/

 

[condor22]

The trailer has a 750kg GVM (Not the correct methodology as a trailer it should be ATM) GVM is Gross Vehicle Mass and a trailer is not a vehicle. ATM is Aggregate Trailer Mass, which is what it weighs, stand alone on a weighbridge and includes the weight on wheels, the ball weight and the load. If that figure is less than 750kg and your vehicle specs say you can tow that load unbraked, then you do not need trailer brakes.

However, most medium to large tow vehicles have a 750kg unbraked tow limit and over that requires some form of trailer braking.

My first question to the trailer supplier/manufacturer is what does it weigh empty i.e. TARE. Then take that figure from the ATM (Their GVM of 750kg) that will tell you what load you as an owner can put in it.

 

[Solid Luck]

The trailer has a 750kg GVM (Not the correct methodology as a trailer it should be ATM) GVM is Gross Vehicle Mass and a trailer is not a vehicle. ATM is Aggregate Trailer Mass, which is what it weighs, stand alone on a weighbridge and includes the weight on wheels, the ball weight and the load. If that figure is less than 750kg and your vehicle specs say you can tow that load unbraked, then you do not need trailer brakes.

However, most medium to large tow vehicles have a 750kg unbraked tow limit and over that requires some form of trailer braking.

My first question to the trailer supplier/manufacturer is what does it weigh empty i.e. TARE. Then take that figure from the ATM (Their GVM of 750kg) that will tell you what load you as an owner can put in it.

Thanks for that. So i went back and the weight of the empty trailer is about 400 kg. I'm now looking at another one with hydraulic brakes.

What I'm still confused about is that i asked if I could have 300kg on the trailer and another 300kg or so on my ute tray. This bloke reckons yes, but itt seems a bit suss to me.
Is this legal and possible?

 

[Ridge Runner]

The trailer has a 750kg GVM (Not the correct methodology as a trailer it should be ATM) GVM is Gross Vehicle Mass and a trailer is not a vehicle. ATM is Aggregate Trailer Mass, which is what it weighs, stand alone on a weighbridge and includes the weight on wheels, the ball weight and the load. If that figure is less than 750kg and your vehicle specs say you can tow that load unbraked, then you do not need trailer brakes.

However, most medium to large tow vehicles have a 750kg unbraked tow limit and over that requires some form of trailer braking.

My first question to the trailer supplier/manufacturer is what does it weigh empty i.e. TARE. Then take that figure from the ATM (Their GVM of 750kg) that will tell you what load you as an owner can put in it.

Thanks for that. So i went back and the weight of the empty trailer is about 400 kg. I'm now looking at another one with hydraulic brakes.

What I'm still confused about is that i asked if I could have 300kg on the trailer and another 300kg or so on my ute tray. This bloke reckons yes, but itt seems a bit suss to me.
Is this legal and possible?

If your Trailer weighs 400kg empty and it can gross 750kg means you can carry 350kgs, If your Tow Vehicle can carry 500kgs, Then Take 10% of the Trailers weight = 75kgs to allow for the Tow Ball weight or Hitch weight and deduct that from your Tow vehicles load weight,, So 500kgs -75kgs = 425kgs is all you can put in the back of the Tow Vehicle,

So The Trailer can Carry 350kgs add that to the 425kgs gives you a total Load weight of 775kgs,

the Axle Rating of the Trailer is what dictates the Trailers Load rating, The brakes are more about stopping the Trailer from pushing the Car/Vehicle.

 

[Solid Luck]

The trailer has a 750kg GVM (Not the correct methodology as a trailer it should be ATM) GVM is Gross Vehicle Mass and a trailer is not a vehicle. ATM is Aggregate Trailer Mass, which is what it weighs, stand alone on a weighbridge and includes the weight on wheels, the ball weight and the load. If that figure is less than 750kg and your vehicle specs say you can tow that load unbraked, then you do not need trailer brakes.

However, most medium to large tow vehicles have a 750kg unbraked tow limit and over that requires some form of trailer braking.

My first question to the trailer supplier/manufacturer is what does it weigh empty i.e. TARE. Then take that figure from the ATM (Their GVM of 750kg) that will tell you what load you as an owner can put in it.

Thanks for that. So i went back and the weight of the empty trailer is about 400 kg. I'm now looking at another one with hydraulic brakes.

What I'm still confused about is that i asked if I could have 300kg on the trailer and another 300kg or so on my ute tray. This bloke reckons yes, but itt seems a bit suss to me.
Is this legal and possible?

If your Trailer weighs 400kg empty and it can gross 750kg means you can carry 350kgs, If your Tow Vehicle can carry 500kgs, Then Take 10% of the Trailers weight = 75kgs to allow for the Tow Ball weight or Hitch weight and deduct that from your Tow vehicles load weight,, So 500kgs -75kgs = 425kgs is all you can put in the back of the Tow Vehicle,

So The Trailer can Carry 350kgs add that to the 425kgs gives you a total Load weight of 775kgs,

the Axle Rating of the Trailer is what dictates the Trailers Load rating, The brakes are more about stopping the Trailer from pushing the Car/Vehicle.

Thanks RR. Funny how the salespeople do not explain stuff like this.
Just in a hurry to get a sale.

 

[Ridge Runner]

The trailer has a 750kg GVM (Not the correct methodology as a trailer it should be ATM) GVM is Gross Vehicle Mass and a trailer is not a vehicle. ATM is Aggregate Trailer Mass, which is what it weighs, stand alone on a weighbridge and includes the weight on wheels, the ball weight and the load. If that figure is less than 750kg and your vehicle specs say you can tow that load unbraked, then you do not need trailer brakes.

However, most medium to large tow vehicles have a 750kg unbraked tow limit and over that requires some form of trailer braking.

My first question to the trailer supplier/manufacturer is what does it weigh empty i.e. TARE. Then take that figure from the ATM (Their GVM of 750kg) that will tell you what load you as an owner can put in it.

Thanks for that. So i went back and the weight of the empty trailer is about 400 kg. I'm now looking at another one with hydraulic brakes.

What I'm still confused about is that i asked if I could have 300kg on the trailer and another 300kg or so on my ute tray. This bloke reckons yes, but itt seems a bit suss to me.
Is this legal and possible?

If your Trailer weighs 400kg empty and it can gross 750kg means you can carry 350kgs, If your Tow Vehicle can carry 500kgs, Then Take 10% of the Trailers weight = 75kgs to allow for the Tow Ball weight or Hitch weight and deduct that from your Tow vehicles load weight,, So 500kgs -75kgs = 425kgs is all you can put in the back of the Tow Vehicle,

So The Trailer can Carry 350kgs add that to the 425kgs gives you a total Load weight of 775kgs,

the Axle Rating of the Trailer is what dictates the Trailers Load rating, The brakes are more about stopping the Trailer from pushing the Car/Vehicle.

Thanks RR. Funny how the salespeople do not explain stuff like this.
Just in a hurry to get a sale.

Yes mate thats right,

Lets take a hypothetical vehicle that they quote can Tow 3500kgs and can gross 2850kgs But it can carry 900kgs, Overall the gross combination Mass should be 6200kgs But If you want to Tow that 3500 and carry that 900kgs you are going to be breaking the Law

You add a Bullbar it weighs about 80kgs and a winch @ 33kgs, Then you add 75kgs for the 4 people your carrying thats 300kgs and you've added a long rang Tank so your carrying 130 Litres of fuel @ 800g per Litre thats another 104kgs, and a Tow Bar @ 25kgs

So you got ??

80 kgs
33kgs
300kgs
104kgs
25kgs
--------
542kgs

Now your Tow Vehicle's Load capacity has gone from 900kgs to 358kgs, 900kgs minus 542kgs = 358kgs But we forgot to add the 250/350kgs to that list to allow for the Trailers Hitch weight so we add that and Now the Tow Vehicle has a Load Capacity of 8 Kilo's, So now you can't even carry any food or personal items for each person, No Genny's or Detectors, No Fridge etc etc etc, Get the picture ??.

So this vehicle can Gross 2850 and it can Tow 3500kgs but if you do that your Overall weight is now 6350kgs and now you are over 150kgs Over the Limit.

What ever you Load in the Vehicle has to come off the Trailer weight and If the Trailer weight can't be reduced then the weight has to come off the gross Vehicle weight so you can stay below that 6200kgs. :Y:

 

[Redfin]

Most vehicle's towing capacity specs reduces dramaticly when off the blacktop.