Will Australia become a state of America?

[CreviceSucker]

The oop: will hit the fan if iron ore is next. I know they have some supply problems from a Brazil at the moment but that will change.

In Vietnamese culture it is normal "to feed those who helped to build your farm"

Thousands of Aussies went in to China over the last 30 years and actively helped them to set up their industrial manufacturing , not for pay , but to genuinely help them.

Aussies can be pretty laid back.

But if they do that to us . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[Goldfreak]

We can't do much about it because we don't have a monopoly on iron ore supply. China is doing what's good for China and they know how import at their market is to us. We shouldn't have put all our eggs in a bamboo basket. Now we have to find other trading partners pronto.

 

[CreviceSucker]

We can't do much about it because we don't have a monopoly on iron ore supply. China is doing what's good for China and they know how import at their market is to us. We shouldn't have put all our eggs in a bamboo basket. Now we have to find other trading partners pronto.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/...a/news-story/adf8d42aeb7c33f525f0eee619d8d187

 

[user 4386]

We can't do much about it because we don't have a monopoly on iron ore supply. China is doing what's good for China and they know how import at their market is to us. We shouldn't have put all our eggs in a bamboo basket. Now we have to find other trading partners pronto.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/...a/news-story/adf8d42aeb7c33f525f0eee619d8d187

This seems so improbable - would cost a fortune compared with simply shipping coal to WA or vice-versa. The reason we have not industrialised more is not this. I will "watch this space".....

 

[user 4386]

The oop: will hit the fan if iron ore is next. I know they have some supply problems from a Brazil at the moment but that will change.

It would take some years for China to organise alternative iron markets. Hard for other iron countries to compete in a hurry, iron ore requires so much infrastructure, being a bulk commodity - ours is close to the coast with good infrastructure (compared with say Brazil or South Africa). But it could happen ultimately, particularly in the case of Brazil - we have been lazy...80% of our iron ore exports go to China

India is a potential market....

 

[Mike678]

Why build an east - west railway ? Port Headland and Gladstone both have good ports that can take large ships .

 

[Nightjar]

Around the early 60's most of Australia's iron ore was used by our own steel mills, Kwinana, Woolongong, Newcastle and a SA one.
Export began mid 60's, Japan taking the majority of the ore from the Yampi Sound deposits, Cockatoo & Koolan Island.
Australia was one of the first to trade with Japan after WW2.
Lang Hancock, owner of two stations in the Pilbarra sighted what he thought was iron ore from his plane.
The rest is history, our steel mills have closed, except for two, (Port Kembla & Wyhalla?) Our car manufacturing is finished and now China receives and refines most of our iron ore.

It beggars belief, Australia one of the richest mineral producing countries and we don't refine and manufacture anything of worth to export?
Australia rode on the sheeps back, wool is finished.
Our clean oceans abound in seafood delicacies which are exported?
We Australians visit the the supermarkets and the seafood on display is nearly all imported, much of it bred in treated sewerage farms.

Wake up Australia!

 

[Nightjar]

Why build an east - west railway ? Port Headland and Gladstone both have good ports that can take large ships .

Mike someone here may have the background/facts?
Lang Hancock (I seem to recall) proposed an East/West railway?
Iron ore to the East for smelting and return with coal to the West to fire proposed steel mill in the Pilbarra?

 

[Tathradj]

Railways in the west were Small gauge.
Railways in the east were Large Gauge.

Cost was to much but got beaten on the constitutional state trading.

All railways are now large gauge.

 

[user 4386]

Why build an east - west railway ? Port Headland and Gladstone both have good ports that can take large ships .

Mike someone here may have the background/facts?
Lang Hancock (I seem to recall) proposed an East/West railway?
Iron ore to the East for smelting and return with coal to the West to fire proposed steel mill in the Pilbarra?

I doubt the economics played out - and most of the route would require permission from traditional owners. I just dont see the sense compared with low-cost shipping between both places. I think we still smelt some at Whyalla - back in ww2 my dad would do the Iron Knob (Whyalla area) to Port Kembla run with iron ore, ditto with dolomite flux from Ardrossan to Port Kembla, Shipping is just so cheap!

 

[Manpa]

Around the early 60's most of Australia's iron ore was used by our own steel mills, Kwinana, Woolongong, Newcastle and a SA one.
Export began mid 60's, Japan taking the majority of the ore from the Yampi Sound deposits, Cockatoo & Koolan Island.
Australia was one of the first to trade with Japan after WW2.
Lang Hancock, owner of two stations in the Pilbarra sighted what he thought was iron ore from his plane.
The rest is history, our steel mills have closed, except for two, (Port Kembla & Wyhalla?) Our car manufacturing is finished and now China receives and refines most of our iron ore.

It beggars belief, Australia one of the richest mineral producing countries and we don't refine and manufacture anything of worth to export?
Australia rode on the sheeps back, wool is finished.
Our clean oceans abound in seafood delicacies which are exported?
We Australians visit the the supermarkets and the seafood on display is nearly all imported, much of it bred in treated sewerage farms.

Wake up Australia!

The SA steelworks s Whyalla, it is currently undergoing somewhat of a resurgence under the ownership of Mr Gupta a multi millionaire businessman from the UK.

 

[Swinging & digging]

I feel China is behaving badly in treatment of Australia over our suggestion to have an enquiry into the source of Corona virus.
I would have thought a lot could be learnt from such an enquiry to prevent a similar occurrence in future years?

I am surprised the prospect of an enquiry seems to have diminished to the point of nobody talking about it.
Also alarming that some of our politicians are bending over to China's demand letting them get off free without scrutiny over the virus.
Money talks at the end of the day, i think we need to diversify our trade away from relying on China too much.

Getting second rate manufactured goods in return for our first rate resources is not a good deal.

 

[Swinging & digging]

Around the early 60's most of Australia's iron ore was used by our own steel mills, Kwinana, Woolongong, Newcastle and a SA one.
Export began mid 60's, Japan taking the majority of the ore from the Yampi Sound deposits, Cockatoo & Koolan Island.
Australia was one of the first to trade with Japan after WW2.
Lang Hancock, owner of two stations in the Pilbarra sighted what he thought was iron ore from his plane.
The rest is history, our steel mills have closed, except for two, (Port Kembla & Wyhalla?) Our car manufacturing is finished and now China receives and refines most of our iron ore.

It beggars belief, Australia one of the richest mineral producing countries and we don't refine and manufacture anything of worth to export?
Australia rode on the sheeps back, wool is finished.
Our clean oceans abound in seafood delicacies which are exported?
We Australians visit the the supermarkets and the seafood on display is nearly all imported, much of it bred in treated sewerage farms.

Wake up Australia!

The SA steelworks s Whyalla, it is currently undergoing somewhat of a resurgence under the ownership of Mr Gupta a multi millionaire businessman from the UK.

The Whyalla steel works has the contract to supply steel rails for the Nation building, " Inland Rail Project " good to see a resurgence in heavy Industry and especially for SA. One of my old work mates moved over there over 25 years ago for a senior role in the maintenance division, he would be retied now though. Over the years the Mill has been threatened with closure a few times, but good to see it having a future atm.

 

[user 4485]

Around the early 60's most of Australia's iron ore was used by our own steel mills, Kwinana, Woolongong, Newcastle and a SA one.
Export began mid 60's, Japan taking the majority of the ore from the Yampi Sound deposits, Cockatoo & Koolan Island.
Australia was one of the first to trade with Japan after WW2.
Lang Hancock, owner of two stations in the Pilbarra sighted what he thought was iron ore from his plane.
The rest is history, our steel mills have closed, except for two, (Port Kembla & Wyhalla?) Our car manufacturing is finished and now China receives and refines most of our iron ore.

It beggars belief, Australia one of the richest mineral producing countries and we don't refine and manufacture anything of worth to export?
Australia rode on the sheeps back, wool is finished.
Our clean oceans abound in seafood delicacies which are exported?
We Australians visit the the supermarkets and the seafood on display is nearly all imported, much of it bred in treated sewerage farms.

Wake up Australia!

My old man worked at Port Kembla & my Uncle at Wyhalla. Both over 45 years ago.
Back in the days when it was normal to leave school early & get an apprenticeship. The thought was that it was better to have a trade than stay at school.

I remember some years ago watching a program about ship building in Korea. The gist of the show was why can't we do it here in Australia - we had the iron ore, coal, mills, workforce but the line of thought was we couldn't do it here as cheap as they could. There was the belief that because the ships were being built in Korea the workers would be underpaid & have poor working conditions.
The kicker was that the Korean workers there were on about $80k/year with pretty good working conditions. I remember it was either in line with our average wage at the time or possibly a bit better (it was a fair bit better than I was earning at the time as a Fitter).
Australia seems to come up with excuses instead of solutions in some cases. At the time of that story there was no excuse for us to be missing out on work like that while sending our resources offshore.
I don't know if something like that would be still in line with our average wage now but it does pose the question of how many opportunities like it we missed as a country over the years?

 

[user 4386]

I feel China is behaving badly in treatment of Australia over our suggestion to have an enquiry into the source of Corona virus.
I would have thought a lot could be learnt from such an enquiry to prevent a similar occurrence in future years?

I am surprised the prospect of an enquiry seems to have diminished to the point of nobody talking about it.
Also alarming that some of our politicians are bending over to China's demand letting them get off free without scrutiny over the virus.
Money talks at the end of the day, i think we need to diversify our trade away from relying on China too much.

Getting second rate manufactured goods in return for our first rate resources is not a good deal.

A lot of the goods are no longer second-rate> The problem was we took on China alone less than two weeks before the rest of the world did as a group, singling us out. And it was all in aid of our American alliance, the leader of which (Trump) was openly implying that the "China Virus" was invented in a lab by China and released on the world because of his trade tarrifs.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05...world-health-assembly-china-covid-19/12256910

China needed pulling in line over trade, it needs keeping in check in the South China Sea (although there is more to that than our press ever mentions), and we need an enquiry into the source of covid. But politicians are not meant to be bar-room brawlers, and two more weeks (so as to act with the rest of the world) and all would be the same except that China would not have singled us out to damage our economy.

I don't think anyone is bending over.

 

[Swinging & digging]

Totally agree with all you have said in the above post.(m basko).
Have been employed in the engineering trades all my life with Heavy Industrial Experience Electrical & Instrumentation. Over the years i have witnessed the dramatic
decline in Heavy Industry in Australia, and know what the media and politicians say is often far from the truth. Unless the attitude turns around quick our Country will be worse off in future years.

Qualified people like myself are been potentially waisted by modern miss guided policies.
We have the potential to solve many of our current issues by investing in new technology especially in the Energy sector as 100% renewables is not going to set us up for sound economic performance. A good economy generates large taxation revenue to pay for all the government services we require.

On a return flight from Sydney to Melbourne a few years back we flew over the Kembla Steel works, it was a very impressive huge industrial complex, was a proud moment for a person with my Industrial experience. :Y:

 

[user 4386]

Around the early 60's most of Australia's iron ore was used by our own steel mills, Kwinana, Woolongong, Newcastle and a SA one.
Export began mid 60's, Japan taking the majority of the ore from the Yampi Sound deposits, Cockatoo & Koolan Island.
Australia was one of the first to trade with Japan after WW2.
Lang Hancock, owner of two stations in the Pilbarra sighted what he thought was iron ore from his plane.
The rest is history, our steel mills have closed, except for two, (Port Kembla & Wyhalla?) Our car manufacturing is finished and now China receives and refines most of our iron ore.

It beggars belief, Australia one of the richest mineral producing countries and we don't refine and manufacture anything of worth to export?
Australia rode on the sheeps back, wool is finished.
Our clean oceans abound in seafood delicacies which are exported?
We Australians visit the the supermarkets and the seafood on display is nearly all imported, much of it bred in treated sewerage farms.

Wake up Australia!

My old man worked at Port Kembla & my Uncle at Wyhalla. Both over 45 years ago.
Back in the days when it was normal to leave school early & get an apprenticeship. The thought was that it was better to have a trade than stay at school.

I remember some years ago watching a program about ship building in Korea. The gist of the show was why can't we do it here in Australia - we had the iron ore, coal, mills, workforce but the line of thought was we couldn't do it here as cheap as they could. There was the belief that because the ships were being built in Korea the workers would be underpaid & have poor working conditions.
The kicker was that the Korean workers there were on about $80k/year with pretty good working conditions. I remember it was either in line with our average wage at the time or possibly a bit better (it was a fair bit better than I was earning at the time as a Fitter).
Australia seems to come up with excuses instead of solutions in some cases. At the time of that story there was no excuse for us to be missing out on work like that while sending our resources offshore.
I don't know if something like that would be still in line with our average wage now but it does pose the question of how many opportunities like it we missed as a country over the years?

We have missed out for half a century. Even in the 1960s things were being canned as "too difficult politically" because of green objections. For example, Rhone Poulenc wanted to build a plant then at Jarrahdale? to extract the new-age metals of gallium from the nearby bauxite and rare earths from the heavy mineral sands. Canned as potentially polluting (not investigated how that could be prevented). I don't favour our messing up our environment, but the immediate Australian reaction seems to be "How can we stop this project" not "How can we do this in an environmentally-acceptable manner". Industry is always portrayed (even on this site) as the enemy. It is one reason I semi-retired - it takes so may years to get permitting for even the smallest project, that I would be lucky to see a project start now before I fell off the perch.

 

[user 4386]

I feel a bit better now...

 

[Swinging & digging]

Australia has a real problem of been anti industrial expansion.

If a new non polluting energy plant where to be built somewhere just sit back and watch the years of protest and delays, red tape by nearby residents who oppose everything.

I get a lot of laughs driving around the area i live seeing poorly designed and installed solar installations in NIMBY suburbs, with panels covered by extreme shade, leaves, bark and dirt, knowing in full sun a 6kw system would be struggling to supply the energy low power consumption LED lights would require, but the resident gets this feeling they are saving the planet. The solar install industry is making an absolute killing on installing low grade products to unsuitable conditions to maximise generating capacity. :lol: :drooling:

 

[user 4386]

Australia has a real problem of been anti industrial expansion.

If a new non polluting energy plant where to be built somewhere just sit back and watch the years of protest and delays, red tape by nearby residents who oppose everything.

I get a lot of laughs driving around the area i live seeing poorly designed and installed solar installations in NIMBY suburbs, with panels covered by extreme shade, leaves, bark and dirt, knowing in full sun a 6kw system would be struggling to supply the energy low power consumption LED lights would require, but the resident gets this feeling they are saving the planet. The solar install industry is making an absolute killing on installing low grade products to unsuitable conditions to maximise generating capacity. :lol: :drooling:

I appreciate what you are saying. Some of the symbolism gets me. An annoying, poorly-informed Swedish teenager takes a carbon fibre yacht to an alternative energy meeting and claims it is saving on using a polluting aeroplane (that takes hundreds of people in a single flight. Any idea how much co2 was emitted tp roduce that yacht? We have a day when we shut down lighting around the world to supposedly save energy - any idea how much co2 is emitted because we had to shut down coal -fired plants then get them started again (since we dropped below base load)? The ignorance and hype is appalling. Not that I don't favour renewable energy sources - and not because (as A scientist) I have a problem with anthropogenic climate change theory - I just favour science and economic logic, and horses for courses.