WARNING TO FOSSICKERS ABOUT NSW SLUICING DEVELOPMENTS

[G0lddigg@]

I cant answer that for you mate im not the fun police. Have a look on the napfa site theres a comprehensive explanation

 

[Ge_off Digger]

All fossicking / prospecting communities that rely on the $$$$ from campers etc need to be made aware of this ruling and asked for their support either through Napha or by contacting their goverment representitive , its our hobby and their livelyhood thats at stake, more so if the interpretation of powered equipment includes detectors . If they get away with this whats next ?
If anyone knows a easy way of doing this please do so .

G/day Aussiefarmer, and every one.
I am new at this but I cant see how a detector could be banned as there is no moving parts, it is no different than a torch or mobile phone, or a pacemaker, they all use batteries. They cant stop you taking a phone out bush or no people with pace makers not aloud, well I hope not,.hehehe
As a lot of people have said already, we all need to join NAPHA as more people means a stronger fight, I am joining them now after reading every ones posts on this issue,
It is worth looking at the legal issue of filling a small blow up kids pool with buckets, away from the river or creek and recycling the water as long as it doesn't end up back in the river or creek and seeps in to the ground when finished, ??? would that be aloud or not, Hmmm. just a thought.
Good luck every one, Live Long and Prospect.

 

[G0lddigg@]

Detecting is being banned in places all the time. What is happening in victoria is a complex issue but basically local councils are pushing fir heritage listing. If they get heritage listing under national parks they get funding from the federal budget. If that happens national parks has the power at any time to restrict activities. Detecting is always being targeted.

Prospecting allocated areas are not just for detectors mate they are for all and if we continue to let them strongarm us out of the bush next will be 4wders shooters etc...

 

[Ge_off Digger]

I was of the understanding that all National Parks in NSW were off limits to prospecting, only state forests with permit were aloud.
What is the rules ???

 

[LONEWOLF]

I was of the understanding that all National Parks in NSW were off limits to prospecting, only state forests with permit were aloud.
What is the rules ???

There are 2 National Parks in NSW that Allow you To Fossick/Prospect... One is Torrington Conservation Reserve(near Glen Innes) and the other is Down South near? not too sure but you can get Fossils there...

But.. These May Close with their New Management Policy, Due out Soon... If NPWS try to Close Torrington, I know for a fact they WILL have a very Big Problem....

LW....

 

[user 4485]

The other is the Abercrombie Karst Conservation Area where you can pan for gold in a small section of the creek - no sluicing, detecting etc.

 

[LONEWOLF]

Thanks mbasko, I knew it was somewhere down that way... :Y:

LW....

 

[Ge_off Digger]

Thanks LoneWolf & mbasko, handy to know as I plan to travel around and this helps plan trips.
:Y:

 

[3DDevil]

What has changed since 2010?
When i first started this hobby, there was uncertainty on the wording of the rules. People were asked to band together to get something done about it. But beside a few individuals here and there looking into things, not much was done.

The closest i ever saw was the 2012 Goanna gold muster when NAPFA got formed. But still they seemed to get very little assistance from the prospecting community overall.

I have had my own conversations with the DPI in the past on the wording and interpretations. Their idea was that if the pump was connected to the highbanker it somehow magically became part of the pump (which is the only thing in question). At the time the head of the DPI conceded that the only thing a water pump processes is water and the sluice processes the paydirt and so there was no processing done by mechanical means, but their stance was it was still illegal?
Unless the wording of the rules has changed i still fail to see how they can prosecute anyone using a highbanker within the NSW fossicking guidelines, unless they are breaking other rules like digging more than 1M^3 in a 48 hr period, silting up the creek/river or not filling in holes.

As for metal detectors they are specifically named under "techniques can be used fossicking"

What techniques can be used for fossicking?
Fossicking on land or waters that may be subject to native title is restricted by the terms of the Native
Title Act 1993 (Commonwealth). Land subject to native title can be taken to be any land other than
freehold land, land held under perpetual Western Lands leases and some specific leasehold and
reserved lands.
Fossicking can be done on land or waters subject to native title using hand held implements, which
include picks, shovels, hammers, sieves, shakers and gold pans. However, regardless of the
implements used, no excavation is permitted.
On land or waters that are not subject to native title, fossicking is not restricted to hand held
implements, but power-operated equipment cannot be used for the purpose of surface disturbance,
excavation or processing.
Metal detectors can be used in fossicking activities on any land where fossicking is permitted

The above is 100% correct. Nothing has changed and I for one will be highbanking as normal. :Y:

 

[MikeB05]

3DDevil,

I understand you view and agree it is frustrating that authorities don't seem to understand how things work. I am from QLD and I am NOT familiar with the NSW rules or interpreting them.

In the extract in your post it says " but power-operated equipment cannot be used for the purpose of surface disturbance,excavation or processing."

Is this the bit where they (authorities) are using the logic that a pump must supply water to be used in processing and a pump is power operated'....and 'power operated equipment cant be used'

Reason I ask is that QLD will allow hand operated pumps attached to rockers, high bankers and sluices...but not petrol or powered pumps'.

I might add that no-one really agrees how the Fossicking Act in QLd is interpreted. It's a ***** fight every time someone mentions it.

There are a couple of blokes up here using rocker boxes fed with water from bilge pumps that both pump the water and rock the box/sluice. Very good gear.

Others (me) are inclined to use standard bankers with petrol or 12v pumps but only when we are 'landscaping' never when we are prospecting.

 

[Jemba]

Hi all i feel in the weeks ahead were going to need all the help we can get so again i call upon my fellow prospectors for support, in regards to this matter.

RE-post.

Guy's if you do not belong to NAPFA pleas join weather you use a banker or not rally with us please we do need your help. When NAPFA started the stick they wielded was only small but with each new member that stick gets a little longer and thicker. Then WE CAN STAND AS ONE.

Thank you Jemba.

 

[HeadsUp]

What has changed since 2010?
When i first started this hobby, there was uncertainty on the wording of the rules. People were asked to band together to get something done about it. But beside a few individuals here and there looking into things, not much was done.

The closest i ever saw was the 2012 Goanna gold muster when NAPFA got formed. But still they seemed to get very little assistance from the prospecting community overall.

I have had my own conversations with the DPI in the past on the wording and interpretations. Their idea was that if the pump was connected to the highbanker it somehow magically became part of the pump (which is the only thing in question). At the time the head of the DPI conceded that the only thing a water pump processes is water and the sluice processes the paydirt and so there was no processing done by mechanical means, but their stance was it was still illegal?
Unless the wording of the rules has changed i still fail to see how they can prosecute anyone using a highbanker within the NSW fossicking guidelines, unless they are breaking other rules like digging more than 1M^3 in a 48 hr period, silting up the creek/river or not filling in holes.

As for metal detectors they are specifically named under "techniques can be used fossicking"

What techniques can be used for fossicking?
Fossicking on land or waters that may be subject to native title is restricted by the terms of the Native
Title Act 1993 (Commonwealth). Land subject to native title can be taken to be any land other than
freehold land, land held under perpetual Western Lands leases and some specific leasehold and
reserved lands.
Fossicking can be done on land or waters subject to native title using hand held implements, which
include picks, shovels, hammers, sieves, shakers and gold pans. However, regardless of the
implements used, no excavation is permitted.
On land or waters that are not subject to native title, fossicking is not restricted to hand held
implements, but power-operated equipment cannot be used for the purpose of surface disturbance,
excavation or processing.
Metal detectors can be used in fossicking activities on any land where fossicking is permitted

The above is 100% correct. Nothing has changed and I for one will be highbanking as normal. :Y:

" No excavation permitted " they have left room down the track for detectors to also be banned unless the gold is on the surface.

They really are dirty criminal scumm . Whats their motive ?

We have an unfortunate disease in this country where a very real sickness prevails among many politicians or public servants where they are driven by a desire to F**k up anything good that still remains.

The correct term for that is "sociopath" yet they appear immune to liability and have no facility for independent review.

Unless something changes we will all be confined to our homes by suffocating legislation that makes it illegal to even breathe air without a permit .

 

[Jemba]

Spot on mate. :Y:

 

[shivan]

What has changed since 2010?
When i first started this hobby, there was uncertainty on the wording of the rules. People were asked to band together to get something done about it. But beside a few individuals here and there looking into things, not much was done.

The closest i ever saw was the 2012 Goanna gold muster when NAPFA got formed. But still they seemed to get very little assistance from the prospecting community overall.

I have had my own conversations with the DPI in the past on the wording and interpretations. Their idea was that if the pump was connected to the highbanker it somehow magically became part of the pump (which is the only thing in question). At the time the head of the DPI conceded that the only thing a water pump processes is water and the sluice processes the paydirt and so there was no processing done by mechanical means, but their stance was it was still illegal?
Unless the wording of the rules has changed i still fail to see how they can prosecute anyone using a highbanker within the NSW fossicking guidelines, unless they are breaking other rules like digging more than 1M^3 in a 48 hr period, silting up the creek/river or not filling in holes.

As for metal detectors they are specifically named under "techniques can be used fossicking"

What techniques can be used for fossicking?
Fossicking on land or waters that may be subject to native title is restricted by the terms of the Native
Title Act 1993 (Commonwealth). Land subject to native title can be taken to be any land other than
freehold land, land held under perpetual Western Lands leases and some specific leasehold and
reserved lands.
Fossicking can be done on land or waters subject to native title using hand held implements, which
include picks, shovels, hammers, sieves, shakers and gold pans. However, regardless of the
implements used, no excavation is permitted.
On land or waters that are not subject to native title, fossicking is not restricted to hand held
implements, but power-operated equipment cannot be used for the purpose of surface disturbance,
excavation or processing.
Metal detectors can be used in fossicking activities on any land where fossicking is permitted

The above is 100% correct. Nothing has changed and I for one will be highbanking as normal. :Y:

" No excavation permitted " they have left room down the track for detectors to also be banned unless the gold is on the surface.

They really are dirty criminal scumm . Whats their motive ?

We have an unfortunate disease in this country where a very real sickness prevails among many politicians or public servants where they are driven by a desire to F**k up anything good that still remains.

The correct term for that is "sociopath" yet they appear immune to liability and have no facility for independent review.

Unless something changes we will all be confined to our homes by suffocating legislation that makes it illegal to even breathe air without a permit .

The no excavation permitted refers to land under native title only.
Don't get me wrong we will probably get to that stage the way we are going, but as it stands, so long as the area is not under native title feel free to excavate and backfill :Y:

 

[Jemba]

Well the way I see what you just stated gets back to the way the regulator interprets the wording. Instead of following what the intended meaning and the spirit in which the legislation was first written. To be taken and turned to their own advantage. Such as they have done, It seems the regulator is the only one who gets to decide what the intended meaning of legislation is. So any wording in the legislation can be used in any way they see fit for it to be used.

To have your input into how the legislation is interpreted, Join NAPFA or your state lobby group, Then WE CAN STAND AS ONE

 

[MikeB05]

Isn't the key to this legislation the bit that says "power-operated equipment cannot be used for the purpose of surface disturbance,excavation or processing." (my emphasis added)?

 

[Guest]

Everything we do in prospecting is political now these days.
It's getting to be a suppressive regime.
This country is getting turned into a republic (communism, control, suppression)
Can't even talk about native title.....ooh is too political.
Wtf :N:

 

[Goldtarget]

Well the way I see what you just stated gets back to the way the regulator interprets the wording. Instead of following what the intended meaning and the spirit in which the legislation was first written. To be taken and turned to their own advantage. Such as they have done, It seems the regulator is the only one who gets to decide what the intended meaning of legislation is. So any wording in the legislation can be used in any way they see fit for it to be used.

This follows the Victorian example of the exempt list. It was only intended to stop people occupying the area, read set up permanent camp/build. It was never intended as an exclusion to fossiking activities.

I'm getting a bit tired of the do gooders and the greens winning on the political landscape. This country was built on gold, and I would estimate that more than 75% of anyone affected in QLD, Victoria and now NSW would happily abide by sensible practices, and put some time in to not only reparing what they have done but improving the areas, or nearby areas for future generations, and help police anyone going too far.

It's bloody crazy all this nonsense about wrecking the environment. For some reason they believe we can't be trusted to make sensible sound decisions in a reasonable manner. If it keeps going and all the good work and submissions keep being ignored I for one wI'll forgo protesting and just get out there anyway, fines or N9 fines, in any area I choose. When all reasonable measures have failed to persuade those responsible for making the decisions I'll pack up my highbanker, detector, and build a dry blower and dredge and just do it any way. Hell ill even tell them when and where i intend to do it. And anyone with issue with that should ask themselves why they would defend stupid laws/rules/regulations/legislation/laws that make no sense. If they believe what we do is unreasonable then why should anyone be reasonable in their acceptance of it.

You can get away with a smaller fine for so many truly criminal acts. I'll put their laws in the no barefoot on Sundays pile of useless laws I ignore.

 

[TheWolf]

The motivation for anyone in a position of power is to stay in a position of power. To understand how this works, consider the area around where I grew up - the South East Forests of NSW...

These forests were some of the best managed forests in the world. One of the founders of Greenpeace used to bring logging contractors from around the world to the SE Forests to show them how its done. They were that good!

The decision makers live in Cities. They are motivated by staying in power, which means everything they do is aimed at maximising votes. Most votes are in Cities. City goers get fed a tailored view of the world via the media - the same news story that is shown in Canberra for example (showing a balanced view of logging contractors battling with green groups) is shown completely differently in Cities - one sided stories aimed at reinforcing the views of the majority population (tv stations have to work this way, otherwise people will change channel). Green groups would show footage of Indonesian clear felling operations while talking about the SE NSW Forests. City people put 2 and 2 together, get 3 but regardless assume clear felling and the Forests get shut down.

While fighting against a particular rule change is worthwhile, you also need to consider what could be done to improve the position of the politician at the same time (or their opposition). My suggestion is to appeal to them by showing how prospecting achieves some of their goals - such as tourism (as has been mentioned), as another fun thing to do when people move out of the city to get a job in a rural city (which is another govt initiative) and as a way of showing off our history via our blogs and videos. And do all of this as part of existing ad campaigns and initiatives that are viewed in Cities.

Either that, or lets just use really long hoses and siphon water from upstream (no motors at all).

 

[HeadsUp]

Hi wolfie bloke.

I hear what you're saying.

Maybe we need some good letter writers to bend the ear of the tourism minister and scream for help against the ignoranus prikcs trying to kill our hobby on the grounds that they don't understand it so therefore it must be bad.

Environmental claims ? They know they are lying .

I think a more likely truth is a long term agenda to go to a cashless society and that requires shutting down civilian access to gold bullion.

Within 2-5 years govt may withdraw banknotes bigger than a $ 20 note as India has done recently .

Within 10 years it will be no cash at all and civilians will be banned from owning gold bullion or nuggets .

Within 20 years the banks will be the ATO and they will tell you how much money you have left after they calculate your tax and deduct it from your account.

:brokenh: