We could draft a protest letter on behalf of the group, and send it to the minister in charge by a mod.. So guy's how about posting the way in which that letter should be drafted the more the better we can look at what is written merge ideas then post what do you think.
WARNING TO FOSSICKERS ABOUT NSW SLUICING DEVELOPMENTS
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Will Detectors be next ? , have a read of these two clauses from NAPFA .
The prohibitive interpretation based on the 2010 Regulations also restricts all other power operated equipment including 12v and solar operated gold wheels, small concentrators and other recreational equipment used for fossicking.
Previous interpretation allowing the use of pumps and other small-scale powered recreational equipment not being used for excavation, that has been accepted in the field by various government authorities, shire councils, prospectors, fossickers, and the general public will no longer be allowed. Any breach of the PERE interpretation can be enforced. This includes all power operated equipment.
All powered equipment includes battery powered devises it seems , that's the literal interpretation ! All detectors run on batteries
The Wrath is building .
The prohibitive interpretation based on the 2010 Regulations also restricts all other power operated equipment including 12v and solar operated gold wheels, small concentrators and other recreational equipment used for fossicking.
Previous interpretation allowing the use of pumps and other small-scale powered recreational equipment not being used for excavation, that has been accepted in the field by various government authorities, shire councils, prospectors, fossickers, and the general public will no longer be allowed. Any breach of the PERE interpretation can be enforced. This includes all power operated equipment.
All powered equipment includes battery powered devises it seems , that's the literal interpretation ! All detectors run on batteries
The Wrath is building .
All fossicking / prospecting communities that rely on the $$$$ from campers etc need to be made aware of this ruling and asked for their support either through Napha or by contacting their goverment representitive , its our hobby and their livelyhood thats at stake, more so if the interpretation of powered equipment includes detectors . If they get away with this whats next ?
If anyone knows a easy way of doing this please do so .
If anyone knows a easy way of doing this please do so .
cheers said:
WAKE-UP PROSPECTORS AND FOSSICKERS....(bit harsh, I know)
They are Not listening to NAPFA.(and probably never Will).. With or With-out 10,000 Members, even 100,000 Members.... Why Not March on them... Best Form of Protest.. Gets 'OUR' Message out there... Media Coverage would be Fantastic .. At least they can't throw 10,000 People in the bin..
But they Can and Will Throw 10,000 'Letters' in the Bin...
LW...
I have been in the Construction Industry for over 40yrs... I have been on EBA Negotiation Committees for 20 of those 40yrs And a Safety Officer on Some of the Biggest Sites in Australia, and have Dealt with some of the Toughest Pollies and Builders in the Country.. Most of the time writing Letters does Jack *****... Sometimes you HAVE to take your Fight to the Streets and Prove your Point... Make people Aware of your Plight...Media is one of the Best forms that We used and works very Well... You would be Surprised at How Many members of the Public joined our Marches once they Realised that WE were Marching for their Rights as well...
Now before Every-one jumps down my throat about Unions this and Unions That... Unions Got us Decent Pay and Conditions and MADE Sure Most of us Workers arrived Home Safely Every Day. After all, Construction Sites are one of the most Dangerous work Environments around... Yes Sometimes They can be a bit Overboard, Look at what is happening in Brisbane at the Moment with the Busses.. But they ARE getting their Point Across... and their Dispute is NOT only about Pay..
Why Not Protest about OUR issues... Can Some-one give me ONE Good reason why we shouldn't Protest..
If done Correctly THIS WILL WORK.... O
LW...
Now before Every-one jumps down my throat about Unions this and Unions That... Unions Got us Decent Pay and Conditions and MADE Sure Most of us Workers arrived Home Safely Every Day. After all, Construction Sites are one of the most Dangerous work Environments around... Yes Sometimes They can be a bit Overboard, Look at what is happening in Brisbane at the Moment with the Busses.. But they ARE getting their Point Across... and their Dispute is NOT only about Pay..
Why Not Protest about OUR issues... Can Some-one give me ONE Good reason why we shouldn't Protest..
If done Correctly THIS WILL WORK.... O
LW...
LoneWolf said:
As l have said before I'm new to this game .
I have read NAPFA's 1st and 2nd reports that have been sent to the mining department and they are very informative . You could not do better reports than what you guys have done . The Liberal National Party are not listening ! They don't give a stuff. We are not the big donors to them as what the big mining companies are. IT'S TIME FOR ACTION ! A big protest is on the cards . It's time to get the media on side and the country media will be important .
I was talking to my mate today and he is extremely angry and devastated. He works his arse off and this is his hobby that the LNP are about to take away from him . I will keep high banking as in my book the LNP can get stuffed !
LoneWolf said:I have been in the Construction Industry for over 40yrs... I have been on EBA Negotiation Committees for 20 of those 40yrs And a Safety Officer on Some of the Biggest Sites in Australia, and have Dealt with some of the Toughest Pollies and Builders in the Country.. Most of the time writing Letters does Jack *****... Sometimes you HAVE to take your Fight to the Streets and Prove your Point... Make people Aware of your Plight...Media is one of the Best forms that We used and works very Well... You would be Surprised at How Many members of the Public joined our Marches once they Realised that WE were Marching for their Rights as well...
Now before Every-one jumps down my throat about Unions this and Unions That... Unions Got us Decent Pay and Conditions and MADE Sure Most of us Workers arrived Home Safely Every Day. After all, Construction Sites are one of the most Dangerous work Environments around... Yes Sometimes They can be a bit Overboard, Look at what is happening in Brisbane at the Moment with the Busses.. But they ARE getting their Point Across... and their Dispute is NOT only about Pay..
Why Not Protest about OUR issues... Can Some-one give me ONE Good reason why we shouldn't Protest..
If done Correctly THIS WILL WORK.... O
LW...
I have been in a Union all my working life and I won't be jumping down your throat as I know what you have just posted is 100% correct !
Top idea LoneWolf i will support that. Mate why not put a plan tougher and post to see how much interest can be mustered. I know this is an open web site for all to view but hey were prospectors men who will stand for what they believe in . This will let the powers to be know we will toe the line and not just roll over and take it up the blurter. And if all comes to zit well as a man you can say i stood for my right's an sleep at night. :Y:
What has changed since 2010?
When i first started this hobby, there was uncertainty on the wording of the rules. People were asked to band together to get something done about it. But beside a few individuals here and there looking into things, not much was done.
The closest i ever saw was the 2012 Goanna gold muster when NAPFA got formed. But still they seemed to get very little assistance from the prospecting community overall.
I have had my own conversations with the DPI in the past on the wording and interpretations. Their idea was that if the pump was connected to the highbanker it somehow magically became part of the pump (which is the only thing in question). At the time the head of the DPI conceded that the only thing a water pump processes is water and the sluice processes the paydirt and so there was no processing done by mechanical means, but their stance was it was still illegal?
Unless the wording of the rules has changed i still fail to see how they can prosecute anyone using a highbanker within the NSW fossicking guidelines, unless they are breaking other rules like digging more than 1M^3 in a 48 hr period, silting up the creek/river or not filling in holes.
As for metal detectors they are specifically named under "techniques can be used fossicking"
When i first started this hobby, there was uncertainty on the wording of the rules. People were asked to band together to get something done about it. But beside a few individuals here and there looking into things, not much was done.
The closest i ever saw was the 2012 Goanna gold muster when NAPFA got formed. But still they seemed to get very little assistance from the prospecting community overall.
I have had my own conversations with the DPI in the past on the wording and interpretations. Their idea was that if the pump was connected to the highbanker it somehow magically became part of the pump (which is the only thing in question). At the time the head of the DPI conceded that the only thing a water pump processes is water and the sluice processes the paydirt and so there was no processing done by mechanical means, but their stance was it was still illegal?
Unless the wording of the rules has changed i still fail to see how they can prosecute anyone using a highbanker within the NSW fossicking guidelines, unless they are breaking other rules like digging more than 1M^3 in a 48 hr period, silting up the creek/river or not filling in holes.
As for metal detectors they are specifically named under "techniques can be used fossicking"
Idea... Why Can't NAPFA organise a Protest... After All It is Their Submissions that are NOT being Heard.... And of course WE ALL WOULD ATTEND and Attend in Large Numbers... would be good to hear NAPFA's thoughts on this... Stephen?
Thanks cheers.. :Y:
LW...
Thanks cheers.. :Y:
LW...
Jemba said:
We NEED NAPFA Involved in this... Or it Won't Work.... And I feel that the Use of Highbankers IS NOT THE ONLY ISSUE HERE.. Bankers are only PART of the Big Picture.. or Their Plan (sorry Mods for double post) O
LW...
Teemore
One foot out the door
shivan said:
And then there are some individuals you wish wouldn't get involved ...... Quote...
"Want gold? Go find it anyway you can and don't tell anyone.
The crybabies that play by the rules determined by the nerds are generally found in Vic and to a lesser degree in NSW.
These whingers make me sick."
With friends like that who needs enemies.
Good luck NSW.
And Good Luck in YOUR Fight Victoria..... Time To Band together My Brothers and Sisters and Show BOTH States we won't take it Lying Down... Or go at Alone And See How Far you Get...
Mods, can the Two separate Topics be combined on one thread... Would make things a lot easier...
LW...
Time To Band together My Brothers and Sisters and Show BOTH States we won't take it Lying Down... Or go at Alone And See How Far you Get...Mods, can the Two separate Topics be combined on one thread... Would make things a lot easier...
LW...
LoneWolf said:Jemba said:
We NEED NAPFA Involved in this... Or it Won't Work.... And I feel that the Use of Highbankers IS NOT THE ONLY ISSUE HERE.. Bankers are only PART of the Big Picture.. or Their Plan (sorry Mods for double post) O
LW...
Spot on mate and your quite right. See what will happen after they finish with the bankers.
:Y:
The Wolf has some very good Ideas but I feel by having 2 Different Threads on the Same subject, some Thoughts are not Reaching Some... :/
LW....
LW....
As an owner operator of a highbanker, I share the dismay of members about the edict from NSW authorities...but I need to ask the obvious question..
.is this really a new issue as the edict in post one above mentions Mining Regulation 2016.
It seems then that whenever this regulation was implemented in 2016, highbanking became illegal and was possibly illegal before that time (who knows???).
We have a similar situation in QLD where those of us with bankers still argue ad nauseum about the legality or not of using bankers.
At least in NSW you have an organisation NAPFA who could mobilise a collective response to this edict...in Qld we are not that organised!!
Best wishes to the effort in NSW to try and get this edict quashed and get something with more sense
.is this really a new issue as the edict in post one above mentions Mining Regulation 2016.
It seems then that whenever this regulation was implemented in 2016, highbanking became illegal and was possibly illegal before that time (who knows???).
We have a similar situation in QLD where those of us with bankers still argue ad nauseum about the legality or not of using bankers.
At least in NSW you have an organisation NAPFA who could mobilise a collective response to this edict...in Qld we are not that organised!!
Best wishes to the effort in NSW to try and get this edict quashed and get something with more sense
G'day All
the following is the exact extract copied and pasted from the NSW Planning Environment Resources and Energy site,
The NSW Resources Regulator, within the NSW Department of Planning and Environment, is responsible for compliance and enforcement functions across the mining and resources sectors.
This includes working with industry, community, local councils and other state government agencies to provide a consistent and responsive regulatory approach to ensure compliance with the legislation. This legislation includes the Mining Act 1992 (Mining Act), Work Health and Safety Act 2011 (WHS Act) and the Work Health and Safety (Mines and Petroleum Sites) Act 2013 (WHS (M&PS) Act), and other relevant legislation and associated regulations.
This report provides a summary of the activities of the NSW Resources Regulator for May 2017.
Illegal fossicking
Recreational fossickers utilising a device known as a highbanker to enhance their fossicking capabilities to search for scheduled minerals has been identified as an emerging issue. The use of a highbanker, which is a petrol or electric powered device, in fossicking, is prohibited by the Mining Regulation 2016. These products are being commercially produced by multiple manufacturers to meet market demand. This unlawful activity results in a number of environmental issues. A compliance campaign with be carried out focusing on suppliers and end users of the equipment. Sector: Fossickers Period: September November 2017Compliance activities calendar July December 2017
Compliance priorities Sector.
AND this is the mining regulation extract :
MINING REGULATION 2016 - REG 12
Fossicking
12 Fossicking
(Former clause 12 of 2010 Reg)
(c) the use of power-operated equipment for the purpose of surface disturbance, excavation or processing on any land,
and this is the definition
"power-operated equipment" means any equipment powered by mechanical or electrical means. includes mechanical, hydraulic, pneumatic, battery and electrical equipment or machinery.
the interpretation of what constitutes " power operated equipment" is the key element , in particular the word , "processing"
In my opinion and understanding of written english, my home made high banker is not a commercially made product, the argument lies with the Regulators interpretation which in my opinion is incorrect and they are using the current regulation for their own advantage without considering the rules of natural justice which I believe applies to the benefit of the general community, NAPFA were engaged in the discussion however they were simply ignored so how is that community consultation without justifying and arguing against any submission made , NAPFA need you now, just as much as you need them, and fossicking is still a lawful activity
lets have some healthy discussion on the interpretation any one know a legal eagle who may assist, my views are base on past court experience and , boy, I heard some crap debated in the legs arena and never want to be cross examined
no anarchy , let the knowledge flow
the following is the exact extract copied and pasted from the NSW Planning Environment Resources and Energy site,
The NSW Resources Regulator, within the NSW Department of Planning and Environment, is responsible for compliance and enforcement functions across the mining and resources sectors.
This includes working with industry, community, local councils and other state government agencies to provide a consistent and responsive regulatory approach to ensure compliance with the legislation. This legislation includes the Mining Act 1992 (Mining Act), Work Health and Safety Act 2011 (WHS Act) and the Work Health and Safety (Mines and Petroleum Sites) Act 2013 (WHS (M&PS) Act), and other relevant legislation and associated regulations.
This report provides a summary of the activities of the NSW Resources Regulator for May 2017.
Illegal fossicking
Recreational fossickers utilising a device known as a highbanker to enhance their fossicking capabilities to search for scheduled minerals has been identified as an emerging issue. The use of a highbanker, which is a petrol or electric powered device, in fossicking, is prohibited by the Mining Regulation 2016. These products are being commercially produced by multiple manufacturers to meet market demand. This unlawful activity results in a number of environmental issues. A compliance campaign with be carried out focusing on suppliers and end users of the equipment. Sector: Fossickers Period: September November 2017Compliance activities calendar July December 2017
Compliance priorities Sector.
AND this is the mining regulation extract :
MINING REGULATION 2016 - REG 12
Fossicking
12 Fossicking
(Former clause 12 of 2010 Reg)
(c) the use of power-operated equipment for the purpose of surface disturbance, excavation or processing on any land,
and this is the definition
"power-operated equipment" means any equipment powered by mechanical or electrical means. includes mechanical, hydraulic, pneumatic, battery and electrical equipment or machinery.
the interpretation of what constitutes " power operated equipment" is the key element , in particular the word , "processing"
In my opinion and understanding of written english, my home made high banker is not a commercially made product, the argument lies with the Regulators interpretation which in my opinion is incorrect and they are using the current regulation for their own advantage without considering the rules of natural justice which I believe applies to the benefit of the general community, NAPFA were engaged in the discussion however they were simply ignored so how is that community consultation without justifying and arguing against any submission made , NAPFA need you now, just as much as you need them, and fossicking is still a lawful activity
lets have some healthy discussion on the interpretation any one know a legal eagle who may assist, my views are base on past court experience and , boy, I heard some crap debated in the legs arena and never want to be cross examined
no anarchy , let the knowledge flow
Are the people in the department of planning and environment elected ? or given their positions by the government of the day ? Or are they people that have worked their way up the ladder to hold these positions?
if they are elected or allocated their positions, the communites that depend on the tourist dollar should be able to lobby a higher polictal figure that the department is operating with alternative motives and is destroying the last form of income for these historic and struggling towns.
The financial implications that could finish these historic towns will have will have more swing in the media and parliment than 10,000 people crying that their hobby has been affected.
ifthe people are in these poisitions perminently , they are never going to stop as they have spent their lives working to get into these positions of power to see their "save the planet" dreams come true , its the same as lawyers from criminal families have worked their way into power and the immigration department is full of "soft hearted" open the gates type people .
These days the only way to win is to get like minded people into power and not people that have read about it in books.
Basically i believe if we dont get the communites that are going to suffer financially to fight along side us the people in power will just see that our hobby is only being restricted , and we can still pan or river sluice therefore meaning they have helped the environment in their minds without destroying our hobby.
if they are elected or allocated their positions, the communites that depend on the tourist dollar should be able to lobby a higher polictal figure that the department is operating with alternative motives and is destroying the last form of income for these historic and struggling towns.
The financial implications that could finish these historic towns will have will have more swing in the media and parliment than 10,000 people crying that their hobby has been affected.
ifthe people are in these poisitions perminently , they are never going to stop as they have spent their lives working to get into these positions of power to see their "save the planet" dreams come true , its the same as lawyers from criminal families have worked their way into power and the immigration department is full of "soft hearted" open the gates type people .
These days the only way to win is to get like minded people into power and not people that have read about it in books.
Basically i believe if we dont get the communites that are going to suffer financially to fight along side us the people in power will just see that our hobby is only being restricted , and we can still pan or river sluice therefore meaning they have helped the environment in their minds without destroying our hobby.
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