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goldierocks said:
mbasko said:
This website is an interesting & well balanced read IMO:
https://www.bgs.ac.uk/discoveringGeology/climateChange/general/causes.html
British Geological Survey
Yes, looks balanced to me. The changes in Earth's orbit that it mentions are part of what I call the Malenkovic cycles, that have probably been tripping us into and out of glacial and interglacial periods (carbon dioxide then controlling increased heating and cooling as it is dissolved or emitted as gas by the sea).
I understand all that 'Goldierocks' and agree, i believe 100% in climate change as you have described in reference to the malenkovic cycles of which we have absolutely no control.
I am happy if we agree to disagree on whether any climate change is man caused.
What i find really sad in this debate is what was reported today. That in the UK school children motivated by activists going on strike in protest of the governments inaction on climate change. Terrorizing these children has got to be the lowest of all acts. Their childhood has been hi-jacked and their lives will never be the same.
 
EVIE/BEE said:
goldierocks said:
mbasko said:
This website is an interesting & well balanced read IMO:
https://www.bgs.ac.uk/discoveringGeology/climateChange/general/causes.html
British Geological Survey
Yes, looks balanced to me. The changes in Earth's orbit that it mentions are part of what I call the Malenkovic cycles, that have probably been tripping us into and out of glacial and interglacial periods (carbon dioxide then controlling increased heating and cooling as it is dissolved or emitted as gas by the sea).
I understand all that 'Goldierocks' and agree, i believe 100% in climate change as you have described in reference to the malenkovic cycles of which we have absolutely no control.
I am happy if we agree to disagree on whether any climate change is man caused.
What i find really sad in this debate is what was reported today. That in the UK school children motivated by activists going on strike in protest of the governments inaction on climate change. Terrorizing these children has got to be the lowest of all acts. Their childhood has been hi-jacked and their lives will never be the same.
While I am not sure that "terrorise" is exactly the right term, I don't approve of that either. I would prefer balanced discussions in the class-room - I suspect that is given less emphasis than the demonstrating. One problem I find is that so many teachers also depend on restricted sources of poor information and pass it on to students. The classroom is the one place where kids should be taught to think and evaluate issues, not taught current media dogma. Few issues in life are entirely understood, simple or one-sided, and kids should learn more than anything else how to critically evaluate different sources of information, so that they can read and draw their own conclusions.
 
The only way i can envisage a complete meltdown of the earths ice-caps is if the earth and the moon collided which would change the earths axis and would end all life anyway.
 
EVIE/BEE said:
The only way i can envisage a complete meltdown of the earths ice-caps is if the earth and the moon collided which would change the earths axis and would end all life anyway.
Despite the fact that it has already occurred in the past? Antarctica (and the Arctic) was ice free and covered in forests. Marsupials roamed Antarctica. At other times all the Earth almost to the equator was covered with ice. Hence my earlier comment that most of the public don't appreciate that change iin climate (and the Earth in general) is the norm (understandably I guess, we draw from our experience which is a few decades of the 50,000 years humans have been here in Australia). The desert of western NSW was well-watered with aboriginal settlements around the fresh-water lakes - roaring rivers flowed through central Australia. The Yarra river flowed across a plain that is now Port Phillip Bay for the first 40,000 years of aboriginal settlement. Aborigines were able to walk from Port Moresby to Hobart without getting their feet wet (sea level has since risen 70 m or so). They had no boomerangs or dingos in Tasmania because it was cut off before these existed on the mainland.

A collision between Earth and moon would not be healthy, but something similar happened in the past (forming the moon from the Earth). "The prevailing theory supported by the scientific community, the giant impact hypothesis suggests that the moon formed when an object smashed into early Earth. Like the other planets, Earth formed from the leftover cloud of dust and gas orbiting the young sun. The early solar system was a violent place, and a number of bodies were created that never made it to full planetary status. One of these could have crashed into Earth not long after the young planet was created. Known as Theia, the Mars-sized body collided with Earth, throwing vaporized chunks of the young planet's crust into space. Gravity bound the ejected particles together, creating a moon that is the largest in the solar system in relation to its host planet". Only after this, life commenced on Earth...

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

(Hamlet - William Shakespeare)
 
silver said:
Currently the powers to be are busily getting us to readily accept euthanasia........ euthanasia is going to be wide spread and utilized en-masse(at the governing bodys explicit discretion).
Negative population growth by force.

Hey Silver, I'm thinking 'Logans Run' here.

Did you ever see the series?

The population was duped into believing that they would be reincarnated once they reached the age of 30, but it was actually mass euthanasia.

Jeff
 
Wasn't there a movie called Soylent Green. A green wafer advertised to contain "high-energy plankton" from the oceans of the world, more nutritious and palatable than its predecessors "Red" and "Yellow" but in short supply. It was actually made from humans processed to provide food for the worlds worsening food supply. :(
 
I might'a seen both of those.... but... I got my own eyes in too :8
 
1550400218_images.jpeg-27.jpg
 
Pigging out at the dump. I remember this was a problem in Churchill, Manitoba, at the dump when I was there in the 1980s. There is a lot of nonsense written about polar bears and climate change (but given that such places have always been difficult to visit, people readily believe them).
 
Some 'People' really need to take notice... On all of the Alaskan shows they have spoken about the lack of a 'True Winter' for 4yrs now...Yes it may-be just the Earth adjusting or something very different.... Towns are getting invaded by Polar Bears cause their 'natural. food supply is Diminishing in their natural habitat.. The 'Growler' Bear has come about cause Polar Bears have come into contact with Brown/Grizzly Bears... This has never happened before as their territories never met, till the diminishing Ice Packs . Even the residents of Alaska have spoken about their Food Supply rapidly disappearing due to this 'Phenomenon' ....

'Growler' Bear:
1550561256_353.jpg


And Don't forget about Me:
1550561453_55555.jpg


LW....
 
LoneWolf said:
Some 'People' really need to take notice... On all of the Alaskan shows they have spoken about the lack of a 'True Winter' for 4yrs now...Yes it may-be just the Earth adjusting or something very different.... Towns are getting invaded by Polar Bears cause their 'natural. food supply is Diminishing in their natural habitat.. The 'Growler' Bear has come about cause Polar Bears have come into contact with Brown/Grizzly Bears... This has never happened before as their territories never met, till the diminishing Ice Packs . Even the residents of Alaska have spoken about their Food Supply rapidly disappearing due to this 'Phenomenon' ....

'Growler' Bear:
https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/7355/1550561256_353.jpg

And Don't forget about Me:
https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/7355/1550561453_55555.jpg

LW....
Not exactly - growlers had been noted for yonks, but only recently have DNA studies been applied to "growlers" and confirmed they were hybrids.
"Genetic analysis has revealed multiple instances of introgressive hybridization between bear species,[4][5][6] including introgression of polar bear DNA into brown bears during the Pleistocene"" The Pleistocene is the geological epoch which lasted from about 2,588,000 to 11,700 years ago, spanning the world's most recent period of repeated glaciations." So this is not something new.
As for invading towns, it was occurring more than 50 years ago as I mentioned - and there were very few towns in the Arctic back then. They were a nuisance at Churchill dump, and my son used to email local kids about it decades ago.

The polar bears never lived to any extent on the sea ice during winter. Because the reports we read are usually about winter sea ice extents, most people don't realise that summer sea ice has always been far less and not connected with the land. People think that the Arctic is covered with ice and snow all year, but I used to work along the northern Canadian coast (eg Bathurst Inlet) and there was only the occasional tiny iceberg (and occasional snow drifts a few tens of metres long in sheltered spots) in summer. Both grizzlies and polar bears occupied the same coastal land (I saw them 40 years ago, including grizzlies right to Coronation Gulf - one had to be wary). Reports of their decline was not substantiated when I last looked this up ten years ago - apparent decline in some areas related to possible migration and was offset by increased numbers in other areas.

I am convinced that climate change is real - I just get annoyed by the way that things always common are being claimed as new and unique. The Arctic IS definitely warming, winter (and the small amount of summer) sea ice IS decreasing (although not a lot for some years now). I suspect that rather than starving polar bears moving south for food, grizzlies may be finding it more hospitable further north.

We should be very concerned about climate change. It will no doubt ultimately significantly affect some of these species. But a polar bear perched on a bit of ice is nonsense evidence for it (do you think he has been sitting there until all the rest melted around him - a very slow process)? They do swim.
'Fake news" about climate change (usually generated by the media and tourists with cameras, not scientists) is simply fodder for "deniers" because such things are so easily disproven, then damaging some of the populations' belief in climate change. Scientists know it is warming, but because they collect abundant, reliable data on a regional scale.
 
That pic was just meant to show a point and ... Do you think im that stupid to think a dumb bear would stand there till the ice around him melts?

I Really hope not... as I have said before I chose to Earn, not learn.... :)

LW.....
 

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