I own the waterway...Leave now.

[LC76]

Something i found from here
http://www.dtpli.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/217853/RiverBoundaryDetermination.pdf

 

[LC76]

And this from here
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/la195848/s386.html

(1) The owner or occupier for the time being of land adjacent to a watercourse the bed and banks of which have remained the property of the Crown by virtue of section 385
(2) An owner or occupier referred to in subsection (1) has the same right to seek and obtain a remedy for trespass against a person (other than the Crown or an Authority or a person acting under the sanction of the Crown or an Authority) trespassing on the part of the bed and banks adjoining the owner's or occupier's land

 

[LC76]

Now im a little confused.

Looks to me like unless you are a government employee you are trespassing?

 

[Goldtarget]

I do remember reading about land laws in nsw that there are actually owners of the creeks which may or may not be connected to public access. What that translates to is that some of the riverbed is owned privately under the title of the land but adjoining titles the riverbed and banks may be owned by the crown. It was in connection to water rights and access issues not fishing and prospecting, but relevant. I'll ask my uncle that's who brought it up with me and showed me the legal summary. He has lived in two different areas, the riverina and the snowys and I'm sure in both areas there are some portions that are soley privately owned.

 

[casper]

thanks digger. here's the example where i was talking about above.

note the creek runs through crown land into his property which is a gully by the way then back into crown land. The owner is a very well known prospector who's very active in the community

I'd love to be able to hand him a document that said " As a landowner in victoria you do not have exclusive access to any creek or major waterway which crosses any part of your property" that would be clear and concise for me.

This gets more intriguing the closer you look - referring to your example pic i went onto GEOVIC 2 and when toggling the "Public Land Management" layer observed that that layer's boundary extends beyond the Crown Land boundary to encompass the section of creek that traverses though the private property. When you toggle off the Crown Land Layer you can see the full extent of the light green shaded layer which the Legend says is State Forest. Is this deliberate or an anomaly ? well apart from there now being reasonable doubt i don't feel safe to comment further.

casper

 

[G0lddigg@]

Its a tricky one thats for sure... i was amazed that this piece of land was privately owned at all considering is proximity to the state parks and sarrounds but there you go.

 

[G0lddigg@]

Great info guys

 

[Jukebox]

In NSW the river bed in most cases and the immediate area around the bank is governed by Crown Lands Acts Crown Lands Act 1989 No 6.
However You have to be careful as the CROWN LANDS ACT 1989 - SECT 172 defined "bed" to be "which is adequate to contain the lake or river at its average or mean stage without reference to extraordinary freshets in time of flood or to extreme droughts." so In some areas the creek it may not give much room to stand on the bank line.

Crown Land can be tricky to determine if it has been leased or licensed off to another party. The problem with licenses particularly is that they usually do not show on titles searches as it is a license not a lease. Also IF the property is still running under a very old freehold ownership of the land - they may actually have claim to the midway of the creek. There are actually old farms where the title owner holds both edges of the creek and would own the rights to the bed. \

These titles would not show accurately on certain government web based maps. Do not rely on 6 viewer or similar other government websites "maps" as your reference system - as I know for a fact that it can be very very wrong. The only way you can know 100% is getting your hands on the deposited plan of the farm and river bank and, title search and all of its annexures these documents are approved by a surveyors. This will cost you at least $80 for all relevant documents. Most of these governments maps were created with a paintbrush and should only be used as a guide.

I would also be very careful of ringing up government departments and asking their permission or opinion on land - unless they are prepared to give to you in writing the opinion they give you is worthless.

You will not find this information for free unless some has uploaded it.

Jukey

 

[noncents]

Canoeists have the same issues. "Can I paddle my canoe through private property and stop for lunch on the banks"? Who owns the waterway?

I looked on the net when I first started but could not get a definitive answer.

It would no make sense that you own a part of a creek or river. But gaining access via trespassing should be a no go.

I hope we can get an answer.

Regards

Hi Retirement Stone
a mates family used to own a farm which had a river running through it, and they used to get a few canoeists travelling along the river and stop on the banks for lunch or camp over night. According to him told they were allowed as long as they didn't go walk about on his land and were close to the banks.

 

[loamer]

For Victoria- see Miners Rights FAQ at http://www.energyandresources.vic.g...requently-asked-questions-about-miners-rights

With regards to what is/why isn't etc etc, its all very vague. See the following extracts:

30. Where a river passes through private land, is the river classed as Crown land?
It varies, check with local DEPI office.

31. What areas on either side of a river are classed as Crown land? Are these areas available for prospecting/fossicking with a Miners Right?
It varies, check with local DEPI office.

 

[Marked]

And this from here
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/la195848/s386.html

(1) The owner or occupier for the time being of land adjacent to a watercourse the bed and banks of which have remained the property of the Crown by virtue of section 385
(2) An owner or occupier referred to in subsection (1) has the same right to seek and obtain a remedy for trespass against a person (other than the Crown or an Authority or a person acting under the sanction of the Crown or an Authority) trespassing on the part of the bed and banks adjoining the owner's or occupier's land

Surely the holder of a Victorian Miners Right is "...acting under the sanction of the Crown or an Authority..." to engage in the act of prospecting??

 

[Guest]

Canoeists have the same issues. "Can I paddle my canoe through private property and stop for lunch on the banks"? Who owns the waterway?

I looked on the net when I first started but could not get a definitive answer.

It would no make sense that you own a part of a creek or river. But gaining access via trespassing should be a no go.

I hope we can get an answer.

Regards

Hi Retirement Stone
a mates family used to own a farm which had a river running through it, and they used to get a few canoeists travelling along the river and stop on the banks for lunch or camp over night. According to him told they were allowed as long as they didn't go walk about on his land and were close to the banks.

What if I had a highbanker strapped to my canoe for a lunchtime highbanking session? That would up set me if I was the land owner.

 

[LC76]

The laws are that bloody convoluted i would just treat any creek or river running through or next to private property as private and ask for permission from the land owner and move on when asked or told.
Its really not worth upsetting people for the sake of a little flyshit.
Personal opinion.

 

[Twapster]

I would like to give a city analogy of what I believe has just happened. My street is a dead end, and that dead end has 2 car spaces nicely tucked just past our front drive. We have 5 cars, 3 parked in the driveway and 2 in the street. My parents have "claimed" those two spots, and get annoyed if anyone parks in those two spots.

I have to remind my parents that it is a public road so we dont own those 2 spots...nevertheless a car that parked there for a few days continuously got a little letter from Dad on the window asking to park anywhere else in the street (plenty of spots). Not nasty just asking.

So there we have it, our two spots (the creek) are our spots (right next to our land). We have the spots to ourselves for 90% of the year, and we dont like people using our spots even though they are not our spots. Mums "why dont u park over the other side of the street" is same as saying go prospect down the road, not near our property.

Its complicated, yet probably quite clear if you know your facts. If someone knocked on the door and asked to park in those two spots nobody (me , bro or uncle) would say you cant park there except mum or dad, who would say why dont you park 10m away in all those other spots...ie piss off from near my property its mine even though its not.

People come from all walks of life and sometimes even if you are right, in someones eyes you are not.

If the meter guy comes to read the meter, no problems come in "all smiles". The random street dude, different story.

Moral of my twisted story is....make all efforts to be the "meter guy", even if you are the "random street guy"!

 

[k man]

Don't worry about being a government employee. as long as you pay your taxes your a government employer.

 

[Hiluxlou]

I think asking permission to enter is the correct thing to do , just entering a persons property on some ilinformed idea you have in your mind is disrespectful. Nay

 

[Horse]

In NSW.

If in doubt...look up the area on local council mapping. Get an address of a place close to where you want to fossick.

Go to https://shop.lpi.nsw.gov.au
Click on the top option in the left column "Title Searches and Records"
Then click the option "Street Address Inquiry " It is a FREE search
Follow the prompts

for example

I use a my local govenrment mapping tool...and roam the country.

Coles bridge area for example

you can see 2992 in the area west of the hairpin in the road
That is 2992 Turondal Rd Turondale.

I plug that into the Street Address Inquiry at Go to https://shop.lpi.nsw.gov.au
and I get

In the left menu column you will see "Specialised Searches" open this in a new tab so you do not lose your search answers.
Go down the sub menu to "Property Location Map"

Plug your results from your first search into this one. This is another FREE SEARCH.

58/755800 this is a Lot and Plan number. The lot number is first.
enter your email and search away...the results are emailed to you in short time.

The results with give you a heap of DP numbers for the lots around your area, along with boundaries.
You can search each of these DP numbers for fun or research.

OR You can ring Department of Primary industry (DPI) Crown lands Section and ask them a ruling on a certain waterway using a DP number as reference.
They will tell you if that waterway is Crown Land ( Bed and Banks ) or if it is not.

This is the way to get the word straight from the folks that know for sure.

I hope this info helps someone....It is a pretty good tool for researching an area.
All you need is an address to start and you can kick on the a ton of helpful info.

edit...for those that want...there are paid searches as well.

 

[Guest]

Frank is right here.
Any creek river or stream is crown land for one chain (22yds) from the high water mark.
The difficulty here is that you must not trespass on private property to access the stream. So if it crosses a road or similar, then you must enter there.
You cannot trek through someone's property to get access.
You would reasonably expect, that if you have to open a gate or cut a fence you would be trespassing.

 

[Horse]

Frank is right here.
Any creek river or stream is crown land for one chain (22yds) from the high water mark.
The difficulty here is that you must not trespass on private property to access the stream. So if it crosses a road or similar, then you must enter there.
You cannot trek through someone's property to get access.
You would reasonably expect, that if you have to open a gate or cut a fence you would be trespassing.

There is the problem...That is why I study the land parcel maps to see what is owned, and what is accessible.

 

[G0lddigg@]

I think asking permission to enter is the correct thing to do , just entering a persons property on some ilinformed idea you have in your mind is disrespectful. Nay

couldn't agree more and would never consider just walking on.... but when your walking up a creek through a state park with maps in hand and due diligence and there no fences in sight and your standing in a creek with a pan and some bloke comes down waving his hands at you ... well thats a whole different angle.

If i owned land near/in one of the single largest gold panning destinations in the golden triangle and i was a prospector i would be a little more understanding when approaching people...