Gympie has a new inspector
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Also what I meant about, The rest would follow is,
It would make it easier to come to a general agreement
as to what has to be changed.
Remember,
One step at a time as Government departments cannot handle
many changes at once.
They get confused and put it all into the too hard basket. LOL
.
I say that as borderline on the rules of this forum.
Please, No heavy actual political discussion.
I do not want a positive direction ruined on Political issues.
It would make it easier to come to a general agreement
as to what has to be changed.
Remember,
One step at a time as Government departments cannot handle
many changes at once.
They get confused and put it all into the too hard basket. LOL
.
I say that as borderline on the rules of this forum.
Please, No heavy actual political discussion.
I do not want a positive direction ruined on Political issues.
Invite the new inspector to a Barby one afternoon at the reserve and say six of you have
a decent round talk with him.
Set a positive attitude without any one getting upset and you would probably be surprised on what
would follow.
What is it going to cost, ? A few loaves of bread and a few snags.
If it is a positive out come, Have another one and with his permission, Invite the Local paper along as well.
At this stage state that you are going to form a lobby group.
One of the reason's you can cite is with more area 's opened up, The town would not have to worry about the racket
right in the middle of it. LOL
OK. I have said enough.
It is all up to you Guy's.
a decent round talk with him.
Set a positive attitude without any one getting upset and you would probably be surprised on what
would follow.
What is it going to cost, ? A few loaves of bread and a few snags.
If it is a positive out come, Have another one and with his permission, Invite the Local paper along as well.
At this stage state that you are going to form a lobby group.
One of the reason's you can cite is with more area 's opened up, The town would not have to worry about the racket
right in the middle of it. LOL
OK. I have said enough.
It is all up to you Guy's.
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MikeB05 said:Not much point starting a lobby group in Queensland...haha, we couldn't get enough agreement on what to lobby about LOL ! and that's even if we could agree how to set up a lobby group and who would be in charge of it.
In order to get the law changed or improved you need to understand the existing laws so you then know what change outcome you want in those laws.
SOME Qld fossickers, don't understand the current Qld Fossicking Act ...so not sure how they are going to define and ask for a better law.
Just because you think you know or understand the Qld fossicking act doesn't mean you can discredit or bash other people's opinion on certain topics (use of pumps). You seem to always dwell on the negative side of things Mike.
If your preference is to not use pumps then so be it, but don't stop us from fighting for better/clearer regulations.
I can drive down to NSW and take my business there were fossickers are always welcome. Our tourist dollars help drive the economy too. Imagine if the greenies banned fishing...
So instead of bashing "SOME" of us, why don't you suggest measures that would help our cause. You seem to be so knowledgeable about a lot of things. I'm just an Aerospace Engineer, so please enlighten us.
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Thanks Tath, good points and yes we will do that, top Idea about the bar-b-que, and have some of us there, and as I have on some forums, I will be picking people with a positive outlook towards our fight for better conditions for QLD fossickers, Raizo, I would like you involved please mate, of course my close mates, Tribsa and Yobs will be there. Mike you gotta stop this negativity with everything we try to do for our plight....it's like the old saying, 'if ya aint got nothing good to say....don't say it'.
I'm not into negativity, and will not entertain it one bit.
I'm not into negativity, and will not entertain it one bit.
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raizo said:MikeB05 said:Not much point starting a lobby group in Queensland...haha, we couldn't get enough agreement on what to lobby about LOL ! and that's even if we could agree how to set up a lobby group and who would be in charge of it.
In order to get the law changed or improved you need to understand the existing laws so you then know what change outcome you want in those laws.
SOME Qld fossickers, don't understand the current Qld Fossicking Act ...so not sure how they are going to define and ask for a better law.
Just because you think you know or understand the Qld fossicking act doesn't mean you can discredit or bash other people's opinion on certain topics (use of pumps). You seem to always dwell on the negative side of things Mike.
If your preference is to not use pumps then so be it, but don't stop us from fighting for better/clearer regulations.
I can drive down to NSW and take my business there were fossickers are always welcome. Our tourist dollars help drive the economy too. Imagine if the greenies banned fishing...
So instead of bashing "SOME" of us, why don't you suggest measures that would help our cause. You seem to be so knowledgeable about a lot of things. I'm just an Aerospace Engineer, so please enlighten us.
I agree 100% Raizo, we don't need people who just want to put down and be totally negative, they can take that attitude and go jump, and leave us to do what we gotta do, and that's try and get something done to give a more freer flexible enjoyable hobby....alleluia..hahah.
Len...lighten up cobber...it's all a bit serious...just making the point that if someone doesn't understand the existing law it's hard to then know how that law needs to be changed.
SOME people up here say...let's have the same fossicking laws as other states... great ...but do we really know any-more about the NSW and Victorian laws... we all assume they allow all manner of things, but I admit to never reading their relevant legislation. Have you ? If so you are probably well in front of others- including me !!
When I spoke to Qld Mines this week, they have done their own review of other state laws and suggest that our QLD laws are actually OK...did you know that Qld is the only state to have a specific Fossicking Act.... in Vic and NSW...prospectors are covered by different legislation more to do with Mining.
Qld Mines bloke suggested to me that NSW doesn't allow highbankers either...who knows... ( maybe your mate Jim in Queenbeyan had a reason to design the banjo??)....and yes I too have seen photos of blokes using bankers at Oallen Forde...doesn't mean their 'legal'.
I haven't checked their (NSW and VIC ) legislation...I just know that "pump operated' highbankers are not allowed in Qld. Got it in writing from Qld Mines this week as well as verbally from the new inspector.
The Act here in Qld is quite simple but we have all fallen for the furphy that is perpetuated by some that 'processing' is not somehow fossicking.
Rossco emails ( the full version) actually covers it pretty well...where he has said (I added the words in CAPITALS to explain it fully)
I am not sure why you keep suggesting to others that using highbankers is OK and forget to mention that it's only OK "so long as the method of delivery (of the water) to the device does not involve powered equipment...and where Rossco goes on to say "power operated equipment (water pump)......to fossick for gold is strictly prohibited".
In laymans terms to fossick is to search or dig for alluvial gold (fossicking material). Just because we dig dirt (by hand) and put it in a bucket doesn't mean 'to fossick' is somehow completed...we haven't yet found any gold until the processing is completed and using a pump to supply water to find alluvial gold is still 'fossicking'
Anyway...I would join a lobby group to amend the laws but it needs to be done on more than "Victoria allows such and such (but I haven't actually read their legislation)".
Where the PA forum could help us, is to provide the name of an actual organisation that operates in another state that has successfully lobbied government. Maybe the better answer is to then consider asking them to set up a Qld branch or...we get their stuff to set up a lobby group and copy it here.
regards
Mike
SOME people up here say...let's have the same fossicking laws as other states... great ...but do we really know any-more about the NSW and Victorian laws... we all assume they allow all manner of things, but I admit to never reading their relevant legislation. Have you ? If so you are probably well in front of others- including me !!
When I spoke to Qld Mines this week, they have done their own review of other state laws and suggest that our QLD laws are actually OK...did you know that Qld is the only state to have a specific Fossicking Act.... in Vic and NSW...prospectors are covered by different legislation more to do with Mining.
Qld Mines bloke suggested to me that NSW doesn't allow highbankers either...who knows... ( maybe your mate Jim in Queenbeyan had a reason to design the banjo??)....and yes I too have seen photos of blokes using bankers at Oallen Forde...doesn't mean their 'legal'.
I haven't checked their (NSW and VIC ) legislation...I just know that "pump operated' highbankers are not allowed in Qld. Got it in writing from Qld Mines this week as well as verbally from the new inspector.
The Act here in Qld is quite simple but we have all fallen for the furphy that is perpetuated by some that 'processing' is not somehow fossicking.
Rossco emails ( the full version) actually covers it pretty well...where he has said (I added the words in CAPITALS to explain it fully)
- The use a highbanker/sluice to fossick for gold in Queensland is permitted, however any fossicking materials would have to be fed into the hopper by means other than mechanical devices. [/*]
- The use of water in a highbanker/sluice is permitted, so long as the method of delivery (OF THE WATER) to the device does not involve powered equipment. [/*]
- The use of power operated equipment (water pump), which includes mechanical, hydraulic, pneumatic, battery and electrical equipment and petrol operated machinery, to fossick for gold is strictly prohibited. [/*]
I am not sure why you keep suggesting to others that using highbankers is OK and forget to mention that it's only OK "so long as the method of delivery (of the water) to the device does not involve powered equipment...and where Rossco goes on to say "power operated equipment (water pump)......to fossick for gold is strictly prohibited".
In laymans terms to fossick is to search or dig for alluvial gold (fossicking material). Just because we dig dirt (by hand) and put it in a bucket doesn't mean 'to fossick' is somehow completed...we haven't yet found any gold until the processing is completed and using a pump to supply water to find alluvial gold is still 'fossicking'
Anyway...I would join a lobby group to amend the laws but it needs to be done on more than "Victoria allows such and such (but I haven't actually read their legislation)".
Where the PA forum could help us, is to provide the name of an actual organisation that operates in another state that has successfully lobbied government. Maybe the better answer is to then consider asking them to set up a Qld branch or...we get their stuff to set up a lobby group and copy it here.
regards
Mike
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Again, you are quoting the words of an inspector who has interpreted the act. It's his interpretation, not the act or a regulation to enforce the act.
In Aviation, when we comply with regulations, we normally say thinks like, "In compliance with Part 121, Section 3, Para 2.a of the Civil Aeronautics Act, the use of blah is permitted because of blah...
Show me where in the act or a written regulation where Rossco extracted those words from. I have been complying with International and State (I've worked in 4 countries) regulations my entire career.
Paul
In Aviation, when we comply with regulations, we normally say thinks like, "In compliance with Part 121, Section 3, Para 2.a of the Civil Aeronautics Act, the use of blah is permitted because of blah...
Show me where in the act or a written regulation where Rossco extracted those words from. I have been complying with International and State (I've worked in 4 countries) regulations my entire career.
Paul
Well havent i missed abit today!
Ok......smoky bandit is a top fella not saying the inspectors arnt....but a bbq aint going to change their minds on how they patrol or enforce the act. Also its against the law to have a gathering at a gpa or had out paphlats..its in the act...from1880s?
They will tell you they are not the people whom make the laws just enforce it....if we want them changed they suggest we contact the law makers...they made that clear to me 2years ago...
A petition and a lobby will help with reaching the law makers forsure...fossiking is a hobby which should be put in a tourism recreational activity not a proffesional or small scale mining act.
We have a long road ahead of us....
Together we stand united....if you dont stand with us you are against us...and you will have less digging buddies.
Ok......smoky bandit is a top fella not saying the inspectors arnt....but a bbq aint going to change their minds on how they patrol or enforce the act. Also its against the law to have a gathering at a gpa or had out paphlats..its in the act...from1880s?
They will tell you they are not the people whom make the laws just enforce it....if we want them changed they suggest we contact the law makers...they made that clear to me 2years ago...
A petition and a lobby will help with reaching the law makers forsure...fossiking is a hobby which should be put in a tourism recreational activity not a proffesional or small scale mining act.
We have a long road ahead of us....
Together we stand united....if you dont stand with us you are against us...and you will have less digging buddies.
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Ha ha ha raizoraizo said:
Not an inspector mate ...and dont kid yourself mate....none of us are real prospectors....im just a real person who loves to dig in the dirt ...and hope to find some gold.....im not against pumps mate....i want one to....and trust me mate i do speak my mind aswell...if you want me to show you where pumps are not allowed....look on the topic use of water pumps in gympie ...there is a email from the new inspector. ..that even my 8 year old can understand....so hope this helps you follow the qld rules and regs...happy digging raizo...
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Hey Yobs
Great day mate....your a top bloke...i hope i meet up with you again...thanks for the day at deep cr..thoroughly injoyed it...washing down a few rums to kill the pain
Great day mate....your a top bloke...i hope i meet up with you again...thanks for the day at deep cr..thoroughly injoyed it...washing down a few rums to kill the pain
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Happy you cleared that up SB. Apologies if I was rude. It's just been confirmed to me by a mate that a actually are a "real person" who digs at deep creek and not some inspector in hiding stirring $h@t.
Nah, don't care what the new inspector says. Probably a new grad who hasn't even read the full act and regs. That's his interpretation. I want them to show me specific sections of the act or regulation. I've been in the regulatory compliance game for so long. Ain't taking just the word of an inspector. They need to Show me the regs.
Nah, don't care what the new inspector says. Probably a new grad who hasn't even read the full act and regs. That's his interpretation. I want them to show me specific sections of the act or regulation. I've been in the regulatory compliance game for so long. Ain't taking just the word of an inspector. They need to Show me the regs.
Gday Paul,
yes I have referred to the full email that an inspector sent Len.
You asked me to show you "where in the act or a written regulation where Rossco extracted those words from"
Let me try (although I am not a spokesperson from Mines)...
So let me try
Section 3 of the QLD Fossicking Act 1994 I am unable to highlight (d) but keep this in mind...fossicking material is alluvial gold
fossicking material means
(a) a gemstone; or
(b) an ornamental stone; or
(c) a mineral specimen; or
(d) alluvial gold; or
(e) a fossil (other than a fossil of a vertebrate animal); or
(f) a substance prescribed by regulation to be fossicking
material;
Section 5 of the QLD Fossicking Act 1994
5 Meaning of fossick
(1) Fossick means
(a) search for fossicking materials in a systematic or
unsystematic way
(i) on the grounds surface; or
(ii) by digging with a hand tool; or
(b) collect fossicking materials.
So when we fossick (dig or collect) fossicking material (alluvial gold) we are then only allowed to use hand tools as defined in Sect 38
Section 38of the QLD Fossicking Act 1994
Section 38 38 Use of machinery etc. prohibited
A person fossicking under a licence must not use machinery
or equipment (other than a hand tool) to fossick.
Maximum penalty400 penalty units.
To bring it all together..... a person who fossicks ( digs or collects) fossicking material (alluvial gold) ...must not use machinery or equipment (other than a hand tool).
What Rossco the inspector has said is that sluices and highbankers that are hand fed (both dirt by hand and water by hand) are acceptable as they are rely on hand operated tools to fossick (to collect) for fossicking material (alluvial gold).
All the sections of the Act actually support Rosscos email advice to Len.
The problem is this.... a person has not finished fossicking until the person has collected alluvial gold...so using water to spate dirt from gold (processing) is still fossicking.
Hand supplied water is OK but machine supplied water via a pump is not OK because that would be using a machine to fossick.(Sect 38 prevents this).
This week I spoke for over an hour with the inspector and also got an email from him. I specifically asked about a banjo and a rocker (like Yob's)...he said these were allowed because they use hand operated tools ( a ladle or a hand operated pump) to supply water to fossick (collect alluvial gold).
I specifically asked him if processing dirt that was hand dug could be done with the assistance of a pump...he said 'no' because the act says..... until you collect alluvial gold you are still fossicking...there is no distinction between digging dirt by hand and processing the dirt by hand operated means...it's all part of 'to fossick' (Section 5).
In the end...people need to satisfy themselves...I have spoken to the inspector...he has explained in detail the Act and he has written to me.
I don't want anyone to rely on what I am saying...they should make their own enquiries like I did.
In all this I am not opposed to highbanking...I would use one tomorrow if I could do it legally and it would be a big mofo with a freaking huge pump.
I am holding off buying a highbanker until we can get the specific use of these (with pumps) added to the Act just like hand operated detectors are specifically mentioned and allowed in the ACT.
As well I think it dangerous to tell anyone that using pumps is OK.. I would feel terrible if I did that and it turned out I was wrong and someone else got fined. My suggestion...ring the inspector yourself...he is a reasonable bloke but he will tell you...they are operating with the law as written.
regards
Mike
yes I have referred to the full email that an inspector sent Len.
You asked me to show you "where in the act or a written regulation where Rossco extracted those words from"
Let me try (although I am not a spokesperson from Mines)...
So let me try
Section 3 of the QLD Fossicking Act 1994 I am unable to highlight (d) but keep this in mind...fossicking material is alluvial gold
fossicking material means
(a) a gemstone; or
(b) an ornamental stone; or
(c) a mineral specimen; or
(d) alluvial gold; or
(e) a fossil (other than a fossil of a vertebrate animal); or
(f) a substance prescribed by regulation to be fossicking
material;
Section 5 of the QLD Fossicking Act 1994
5 Meaning of fossick
(1) Fossick means
(a) search for fossicking materials in a systematic or
unsystematic way
(i) on the grounds surface; or
(ii) by digging with a hand tool; or
(b) collect fossicking materials.
So when we fossick (dig or collect) fossicking material (alluvial gold) we are then only allowed to use hand tools as defined in Sect 38
Section 38of the QLD Fossicking Act 1994
Section 38 38 Use of machinery etc. prohibited
A person fossicking under a licence must not use machinery
or equipment (other than a hand tool) to fossick.
Maximum penalty400 penalty units.
To bring it all together..... a person who fossicks ( digs or collects) fossicking material (alluvial gold) ...must not use machinery or equipment (other than a hand tool).
What Rossco the inspector has said is that sluices and highbankers that are hand fed (both dirt by hand and water by hand) are acceptable as they are rely on hand operated tools to fossick (to collect) for fossicking material (alluvial gold).
All the sections of the Act actually support Rosscos email advice to Len.
The problem is this.... a person has not finished fossicking until the person has collected alluvial gold...so using water to spate dirt from gold (processing) is still fossicking.
Hand supplied water is OK but machine supplied water via a pump is not OK because that would be using a machine to fossick.(Sect 38 prevents this).
This week I spoke for over an hour with the inspector and also got an email from him. I specifically asked about a banjo and a rocker (like Yob's)...he said these were allowed because they use hand operated tools ( a ladle or a hand operated pump) to supply water to fossick (collect alluvial gold).
I specifically asked him if processing dirt that was hand dug could be done with the assistance of a pump...he said 'no' because the act says..... until you collect alluvial gold you are still fossicking...there is no distinction between digging dirt by hand and processing the dirt by hand operated means...it's all part of 'to fossick' (Section 5).
In the end...people need to satisfy themselves...I have spoken to the inspector...he has explained in detail the Act and he has written to me.
I don't want anyone to rely on what I am saying...they should make their own enquiries like I did.
In all this I am not opposed to highbanking...I would use one tomorrow if I could do it legally and it would be a big mofo with a freaking huge pump.
I am holding off buying a highbanker until we can get the specific use of these (with pumps) added to the Act just like hand operated detectors are specifically mentioned and allowed in the ACT.
As well I think it dangerous to tell anyone that using pumps is OK.. I would feel terrible if I did that and it turned out I was wrong and someone else got fined. My suggestion...ring the inspector yourself...he is a reasonable bloke but he will tell you...they are operating with the law as written.
regards
Mike
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Yobs and Smoky, glad u had a good day guys, yes Yobs we're got a long road ahead, but hey, I believe in my heart someone has to do something, we've had the chat and the banter, and beating of chests, now it's time for action.
Yes Mike we know all of this, been over a hundred times. Not doing post mortems anymore, it's time to methodically as can be, stand up as a group....'lobby' and take action, the petetion is the first cab off the rank, and then next as Jason suggested, get people to write to the Premier, about their disenchantment with the current laws, and that entails more ground to be opened up as well.
I know about the banjo, got that cleared early this year.
My focus now is....ACTION.....ACTION.....'ACTION JACKSON' or should it be....'ACTION LEN, YOBS,STEVE....and the boys'? LOL
Yes Mike we know all of this, been over a hundred times. Not doing post mortems anymore, it's time to methodically as can be, stand up as a group....'lobby' and take action, the petetion is the first cab off the rank, and then next as Jason suggested, get people to write to the Premier, about their disenchantment with the current laws, and that entails more ground to be opened up as well.
I know about the banjo, got that cleared early this year.
My focus now is....ACTION.....ACTION.....'ACTION JACKSON' or should it be....'ACTION LEN, YOBS,STEVE....and the boys'? LOL
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All good raizo...yobs said you were a top bloke and i believe him....as i said i dont care if people use pumps ....i was just trying to help people understand the rules and regs...if your using a pump ...go hard...hope to see you there one day materaizo said:
Hey Paul,
I just read your post "So instead of bashing "SOME" of us, why don't you suggest measures that would help our cause. You seem to be so knowledgeable about a lot of things. I'm just an Aerospace Engineer, so please enlighten us." Have to say this seems somewhat personal and I didn't expect that from you. Hope I am wrong
What I said was "SOME Qld fossickers, don't understand the current Qld Fossicking Act ...so not sure how they are going to define and ask for a better law."
I stressed SOME because I mean some and not everyone.
I am not "bashing" anyone...What I said was that I'm not sure how we are going to define and ask for a better law if we don't understand (or even agree) the current one.
I am not an aerospace engineer...so can only ask...if you were trying to improve an aircraft or rocket (its design or performance) ...would you want to have a full and clear understanding of the existing aircraft before you start designing or seeking changes?
If yes...then same applies to getting the law changed... I reckon try and understand it first then seek specific changes/improvements.
As far as suggestions...I have made a couple... find out from PA forum which organisation in another state has been successful lobbying government to change laws and try and get them to start a Qld branch (I thought that an existing body might have more clout than a new one).
I also mentioned a bloke in NSW (think its Mbasko) who has lobbied local government areas to open up fossick areas...not sure if that would work here but could be worth a try. I have also supported and signed and sent around a petition that Len raised and I also supported Ivor's suggestion on facebook tonight that if we lobby we start with seeking more fossicking areas not just use of pumps. I have also said on facebook tonight that I would join a lobby group.
Your ideas to help this cause are just as welcome and valuable.
In all this I am after an 'evidence based discussion'. I also think that a factually based debate is OK because it makes the final outcome stronger.
regards
Mike
I just read your post "So instead of bashing "SOME" of us, why don't you suggest measures that would help our cause. You seem to be so knowledgeable about a lot of things. I'm just an Aerospace Engineer, so please enlighten us." Have to say this seems somewhat personal and I didn't expect that from you. Hope I am wrong
What I said was "SOME Qld fossickers, don't understand the current Qld Fossicking Act ...so not sure how they are going to define and ask for a better law."
I stressed SOME because I mean some and not everyone.
I am not "bashing" anyone...What I said was that I'm not sure how we are going to define and ask for a better law if we don't understand (or even agree) the current one.
I am not an aerospace engineer...so can only ask...if you were trying to improve an aircraft or rocket (its design or performance) ...would you want to have a full and clear understanding of the existing aircraft before you start designing or seeking changes?
If yes...then same applies to getting the law changed... I reckon try and understand it first then seek specific changes/improvements.
As far as suggestions...I have made a couple... find out from PA forum which organisation in another state has been successful lobbying government to change laws and try and get them to start a Qld branch (I thought that an existing body might have more clout than a new one).
I also mentioned a bloke in NSW (think its Mbasko) who has lobbied local government areas to open up fossick areas...not sure if that would work here but could be worth a try. I have also supported and signed and sent around a petition that Len raised and I also supported Ivor's suggestion on facebook tonight that if we lobby we start with seeking more fossicking areas not just use of pumps. I have also said on facebook tonight that I would join a lobby group.
Your ideas to help this cause are just as welcome and valuable.
In all this I am after an 'evidence based discussion'. I also think that a factually based debate is OK because it makes the final outcome stronger.
regards
Mike
Ok mike.... we all would apreciate you imput ....we need to move forward on this. You have made it very clear and these are the issues we need to address.
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We've all read the act Mike and we all contest the definition of the word "fossick" and the use of hand tools to carry out that activity. You said it yourself, no distinction. If it's not well defined, then anyone's opinion is fair game. They can tell you you can't dig over 2m deep, and even tell you how to dispose human waste yet can't specifically tell you not to use water pumps (petrol or electric) to process your material.
You see, this should work in our favour, as other prospectors in other states too take advantage of this so called grey area. There are thousands of people who go out prospecting all over Australia with pumps. Note that they too are having teething issues with their own state regs, yet that hasn't stopped them.
All I ask (I'm sure there plenty of us), is that we also get to enjoy our hobbies until they change the act. They have already made dredging illegal, closed off the state and national forests. If we give in now, this hobby won't be around for us to enjoy in the next decade or so. Work with the rest of, don't shoot us down just because we are not savvy enough to interpret the regs.
And not all of us can afford a detector yet most of us can knock up a banjo of some sort in our backyard and hook it up with a bilge pump. We are not asking much.
You see, this should work in our favour, as other prospectors in other states too take advantage of this so called grey area. There are thousands of people who go out prospecting all over Australia with pumps. Note that they too are having teething issues with their own state regs, yet that hasn't stopped them.
All I ask (I'm sure there plenty of us), is that we also get to enjoy our hobbies until they change the act. They have already made dredging illegal, closed off the state and national forests. If we give in now, this hobby won't be around for us to enjoy in the next decade or so. Work with the rest of, don't shoot us down just because we are not savvy enough to interpret the regs.
And not all of us can afford a detector yet most of us can knock up a banjo of some sort in our backyard and hook it up with a bilge pump. We are not asking much.
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