Exempt rivers and creeks Victoria - information and questions

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Cheers guys for this very interesting topic ;)

As a relatively new bloke to Vic, im keen to get the good oil on the local mining law
and it's varied "Foggy at best" interpretations that every state seems to diligently and
Purposefully provide for us good folk.

Quick Q: Not having already read the Vic mining act, would i be correct by thinking laterally
and assuming as in other states that panning, non mechanized sluicing, sieving, detecting
or just generally having a look or specking for minerals inc gold comes under the heading
of "Fossicking" and not Mining, and is therefore exempt from a great deal of the states Mining Act. ???

Every state has the same old run around when it comes to the "correct" interpretation of the Mining Law
and no doubt Vic is also hamstrung by those same antiquated land locking laws.

Having just moved over from WA i'm well up to speed on their Mining Law, and now i'm getting my teeth stuck
into the Vic Mining Act, but Geez "Mr Gov man" for once, could you not just lay the law out straight and easy
for us poor confused folk...

There goes our planned run to Crooked river for a weekend session.

Cheers in advance
Pete :cool:
 
Cheers Paul for your updates here ;)

Now to do with that 1979 Gazette you last posted mate, i'm no bloody brain
surgeon but that seems to read that the"Exemption" is only to disallow a prospector from occupying to build a
solid long term residence or hut type dwelling.. am i close in thinking that ??

And if that is the correct "interpretation' of the law, then it would be ok for part time prospectors/Fossickers
to have a little scratch at those so called "Exempted" waterways.. As long as he doesn't hurt a tree when
he rolls out his swag :eek: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Pete
 
Pete_&_Rie said:
Cheers Paul for your updates here ;)

Now to do with that 1979 Gazette you last posted mate, i'm no bloody brain
surgeon but that seems to read that the"Exemption" is only to disallow a prospector from occupying to build a
solid long term residence or hut type dwelling.. am i close in thinking that ??

And if that is the correct "interpretation' of the law, then it would be ok for part time prospectors/Fossickers
to have a little scratch at those so called "Exempted" waterways.. As long as he doesn't hurt a tree when
he rolls out his swag :eek: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Pete
Click to expand...

Hi Pete,

Yes that is my interpretation of why the exemption was set in place and so these lands and waterways could be used for "public purposes"

Paul
 
1396385395_mbc_response.jpg
 
PaulFritz said:
https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/1043/1396385395_mbc_response.jpg
Click to expand...

Until reading the above I would have thought that going to a creek for a day at the most would have made me a visitor of that place. Now I find out it makes me "the occupier"......
By the same logic then, once I leave my house I am no longer "the occupier". Also when I visit a mates place I am now "the occupier"
On the up side, we no longer have homeless people in this country, they are all "occupiers" ..... It seems they will spin it anyway they want dosn't it.
Clear as mud now...

Thanks Paul for the up load.
 
Some great work here, I'm glad someone is trying to get to the bottom of it. Firstly if you have direct permission from the land manager it's assumed you can enter and conduct activities in accordance with your miners right which makes perfect sense to me, as they are the"authority" assigned the task of management. Looks good and imo would hold up if in court. But looking at the above reply im still a little bemused. Now I'm not going to"occupy" in the exempted areas but my best guess is unless there it's a legal challenge on that particular interpretation we remain unable to conduct activities under or mining right. That said id be very interested to see how the legal system interrupted the word "occupy" largely because of it's original intended meaning, not the modern spin applied. One word, many places. Food for thought. If I'm fishing on the bank am i also occupying the river? Birdwatching? Swimming? Hmmm murky waters.
 
Well they say that "interpretation is the mother of all stuff ups" and if they don't say that then they should!!!!

Let me explain.....

A couple of weeks ago I was poking around a favorite little corner, deep in a valley with a permanent creek and very difficult to get too, I was turning off the main track into the scrub and 4WD coming the other way stopped me.

Turns out to be ranger Bob or something, wanted to know what I was up to and where I was going, so after the conversation which includes checking his credentials and he checking mine I turned into #1 enemy of the state........

"My interpretation of the law" he said, is that ALL the creeks in this area are on the exception list cause they eventually feed into XXXXX river.

I produced a copy of this list and asked him to explain, things cooled off a bit because he couldn't, then he informs me that it's state forest so I can't be here, so I pulled a map and the miners right guide and a map from Dept of state development showing the whole area is under an exploration lease and a copy of the lease details, which in turn allows me to be there etc........

Ranger Bob was drawing his information from many sources including guidelines from a now defunked conservation group....(Bob Brown has a lot to answer for.)

So what did we learn that day??

A group of people will look at the same information and interpret it in totally different ways depending on their filters........so be prepared!

I thought that I was being anal by carting all these lists and maps with me and if something like this never happens again I'll be ready...... RESEARCH IS KING!!!

Cheers

Bazz
 
Cheers Paul, Bazz & GT.

A very muddy interpretation thats for sure, and under the Oxford Dictionary there are examples
such as "to take up or hold land in a position of ownership/control" which is not what we do
when we head for a detect or pan for the day, i'm sorry Mr "G"man but i'm just Visiting the place for the day.

Casper i reckon your spot on the money there mate
casper said:
one of the many synomyms of "occupy" is "utilize". To my mind that fits in with the response above .....
casper
Click to expand...

The only other interpretation of "Occupy" that i could find that could keep the door locked was
"To hold a space or time".

Plan A - might ask a few of the "old mates" in WA to have a look into it, quiet a few
of them have fought and won cases against the DMP in WA.

Plan B - OCCUPY a cold stubbie and the back verandah, and let the grey matter
unwind, after 3 hrs of reading the Act im done for haahahaha :D :D :lol:

Pete
 
Yup! we're screwed alright :lol: :lol:
Now i spose the other thing we need to worry about is
"Where exactly is the boundary edge of an exempted river etc,
would it start at the waters edge on either bank or is there a set
distance up the bank from the water thats not allowed to be Occupied/dug.

I dont mind stupid useless rules as long as the body that controls them is
unified throughout, with one and only one interpretation of those rules, at
least we'd know we're doin the right thing by the law, so we can enjoy a good
day out without "The Man" on our back.

Think i'm going to keep workin the slopes and terraces, better gold there.
 
http://thelawdictionary.org/occupation/

What is OCCUPATION?

Read in: Spanish

1. Possession; control; tenure; use. In its usual sense occupation is where a person exercises physical control over land. Thus, the lessee of a house is in occupation of it so long as he has the power of entering into and staying there at pleasure, and of excluding all other persons (or all except one or more specified persons) from the use of it. Occupation is therefore the same thing as actual possession. Sweet. The word occupation, applied to real property, is, ordinarily, equivalent to possessionIn connection with other expressions, it may mean that the party should be living upon the premises; but, standing alone, it is satisfied by actual possession. Lawrence v. Fulton, 19 Cal. 6S3. 2. A trade; employment; profession; business; means of livelihood.

Law Dictionary: What is OCCUPATION? definition of OCCUPATION (Black's Law Dictionary)

When the Gazette was written back in 1914 the definition of occupy was (yet to be actually found) most probably not that of to be standing on a certain piece of ground. More to the definition of not to be pegging out markers and building a dwelling and working the land. To lay claim.
Originally these lands were "reserved from sale" so people couldn't purchase claims and work these rivers as they wanted them and subsequently reserved them for "Public Purposes".
1396480738_gazette_27th_may_1881_page_1389_lands_reserved_from_sale.jpg


Did anyone want to ad a response in the email I will send back to MBC?
 
Hi All
Been reading some info into the criteria of deeming a river/stream exempt to prospecting and still have no idea on what constitutes an exempt waterway . Most common theme seems to be damage to the waterway due to prospecting efforts , don't know what it's like in other states ? ( I'm in Vic ) . What is the reason some streams are exempt and others not ?
 
Check out Paul fritz topic of the same name in here (I wish I knew how to back link) read it first to last and if you still have questions put them up in here. I was only re reading it a day or two ago. Hope that helps. Post script it's a decree made a long time ago and has little to do with modern digs.
 
Was searching Google Earth to try find some likely areas to prospect and was following the Tyers River West Branch to see if it was worth a look...i already knew that Tyers River was on the exempted list but upon further investigation could see only -Tyers River Tributary of Latrobe River and Tyers Lake and arms and outlet to 90 mile beach. Its probably a silly question but does this mean that as a Tributary of Latrobe River its just the main body of water (Tyers River) itself thats exempt or does it then cover the branches that subsequently leave that river?
Regards y4k.
 
Hey Y

I had an issue with this and an over zealous ranger in Vic

To keep a long story short, he bounced me in the bush about panning etc in a little creek which lead into a listed river, so being a shy retiring type I questioned him and after a short discussion we agreed to meet at his office and get the low down.

My reason for questioning him and maybe his parentage, is that the creek fed into a larger river which was definitely on the list, but not the creek.

A day later in his regional office it turns out that the three people from the dept ALL had completely different views as to the legality of prospecting a tributary of a listed waterway.

In the end it was agreed that I was not in breech of this rule........

My experience is that the people who are suppose to enforce the law don't have a clue and are also confused........ go figure!!!

Just a point, these guys were very helpful and for a moment accepted the confusion being created...

Now, I research, check and research to the point of being anal!!!

Good luck
 
Bazz said:
My experience is that the people who are suppose to enforce the law don't have a clue and are also confused........ go figure!!!
Click to expand...

This has been my experience down here in Tassie as well. It's really up to you to know your rights.
The first answer of the lazy rule enforcer is always "no, you can't do it". Unfortunately it's up to us to prove that the answer is yes.
 
I printed out the exempt list (3 pages) and usually carry it with me in the car when I go out mainly in case my plans change but also to cover my arse if pulled up by an ill informed inspector.
 
I am fairly certain that tributaries of rivers and creeks are not includes unless specifically listed. You should find that in some cases the the exempt listed states xx and its tributaries, but in other cases it doesn't.

Think also back to what I believe was the original intent of the law and that was to stop people interfering with the supply to residences etc, that may be established along a water course.

Rob.
 

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