Exempt rivers and creeks Victoria - information and questions

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Interestingly, the "HERITAGE RIVERS (AMENDMENT) BILL 1998" references our exempted rivers list as gazetted in 1881, calling it the "public purposes reserve", which in my opinion lends weight to the theory that the list has been hijacked for suggesting something that it doesn't actually do...

The text of the "HERITAGE RIVERS (AMENDMENT) BILL 1998"can be found here: (will come back and post a link when I have made enough posts to be allowed to do so, I suppose)
 
Marked said:
Unfortunately, Adam, the DPI would have us believe, and the wording of the faq implies, that the list of rivers/streams is exempt from any "right to prospect" provided by a Victorian miners right, rather than being exempt from protection.

From what I gather, an old version of the miner's right also gave the right to build lodgings where you were prospecting, and I would assume that original intention of "the list" was to prevent that from happening along the rivers, etc on "the list" rather than to prevent prospecting altogether, and has since been misinterpreted by well-meaning naturalists to save the areas from all of us destructive greedy prospectors.
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the underlined is spot on!! - that's always been my understanding....
casper
 
This topic has been gone over sooo many times it's not funny anymore...

What old laws said is just that "old laws".

It's today's rules that we need to abide by.

Just like there are fishing rules for fishermen. If they break the current rules, they can be fined, equipment & vehicles confiscated.
The same goes for prospecting in Victoria - get caught prospecting in any of the waterways named on the list, use mechanical or any type of suction device to lift paydirt or break any other rule & you'll get prosecuted.

Wheter we like it or not - they are the rules.

That simple.
 
The problem, and the reason this has been gone over sooo many times, is no-one can provide an Act or Law in writing that specifically prohibits prospecting. All we have to go by is "I spoke to a guy at the DPI and he said..."

In reading the current Acts that we are told prohibit prospecting in rivers on "the list", there is nothing that specifically rules out prospecting altogether. Certainly, it is easy see how digging and leaving a 2 metres chunk out of a riverbank will contravene the Heritage Rivers Act, but not low impact activities such as crevicing, etc. In fact, the Heritage Rivers Act only mentions "extraction Industries", and "mining", which may refer to recreational prospecting for the schedule 2 sites listed under the act (natural catchment areas) and not many of the rivers and creeks named on "the list". One of the stated purposes of The Heritage Rivers Act is to protect these areas for recreation activities (is recreational prospecting not a recreation activity?)

The prohibition against mechanical excavation is specifically stated as a condition of a Victorian Miners Right on the DEPI website where you can purchase your miners right. Also referred to there is where to find the full entitlements and obligations of a holder of a Miner's Right, part of which I shall reproduce here:

Mineral Resources (Sustainable Development) Act 1990 - SECT 58
Obligations of holder

58. Obligations of holder

(1) The holder of a miner's right acting under that right must not-

(a) use any equipment for the purposes of excavation on the land, other
than non-mechanical hand tools; or

(b) use explosives on the land; or

(c) remove or damage any tree or shrub on the land; or

(d) disturb any Aboriginal cultural heritage (within the meaning of the
Aboriginal Heritage Act 2006) on the land.

Penalty: 100 penalty units.

(2) The holder of a miner's right must repair any damage to the land arising
out of the search.

Penalty: 50 penalty units.
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It is true that as part of the above act, the Minister may make exempt land from activities covered by the Act, by publishing in the government gazette. However "the list" was never published with that purpose - It's intention was to prevent miners and prospectors from building residences on the riverbanks in question so as to reserve that land for public use.

Section 7 of the Crown Land (Reserves) Act also applies in this instance,

Crown Land (Reserves) Act 1978 - SECT 7
Consent of manager required for mining purposes

7. Consent of manager required for mining purposes

(1) The Governor in Council may, by the Order reserving any land or by any
subsequent Order published in the Government Gazette, nominate any specified
part of reserved land for which consent of the person or manager administering
or managing the land is required before work may be done on that land in
accordance with the Mineral Resources (Sustainable Development) Act 1990.

(2) The Governor in Council may revoke any nomination under subsection (1) by
Order published in the Government Gazette.

(3) After the commencement of section 40 of the Mineral Resources Development
(Amendment) Act 1993, the Governor in Council must not make a nomination under
subsection (1) in relation to any land that is unrestricted Crown land within
the meaning of the Mineral Resources (Sustainable Development) Act 1990.
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Which suggests that (as I had read in another thread on another forum) that approval from the Ranger responsible for the area in question would be sufficient to legally prospect a river on "the list".

To say that that we have a definitive set of rules to go by is a little misleading, as an answer in a "faq" on a website is definitely not that.

Don't get me wrong - I'm no legal expert and am not proposing we all go prospect the rivers on the list to test my "opinion"...I am just trying to point out that the question has not been adequately answered, and will continue to be questioned by people until it is.
 
I take my hat off to you for having & being able to research this to this depth & length. I honestly do.
If I was you & was able, I would seriously set up a meeting with the PMAV( meet with Rita - not just @ a local branch) & forward your findings.

If that fails to get anywhere then get yourself a group of prospectors together who are prepared to put it on the line. Set up on a waterway that is on the list in a rather public location & start panning and sluicing away. Somewhere like the Thompson river at the Walhalla Bridge.
You would definitely raise attention of the ranger & take it from there where it leads.

Maybe most of us are like sheep & if a piece of paper says we can't do something, then we won't. I don't know...

I do know that prospecting to me is one of my hobbies(& only that - a hobby to me). I struggle enough just to get out there to pan or sluice for 2hrs a month. I like most of the sheep just arn't able to or willing to get so deep in a battle with rangers, gov. departments, police, court & lawyers etc. because we got caught doing our hobby in a place that we've been told not to.
Maybe it is going to take that to get to the bottom of it? I don't know.

Start off with meeting with PMAV, then take it from there.

I don't have the capabilities(time, finances, more time & more $ - like most) to fight the system. If you or anyone is able - give it a crack & test out what you say.

Call it weak or what but I will tho, just follow the rules(even if they are just a list on a frequently asked questions page from a government department with no laws seemingly backing them up) & do my bit of panning without fear of prosecution.
 
Ag Man said:
I take my hat off to you for having & being able to research this to this depth & length. I honestly do.
If I was you & was able, I would seriously set up a meeting with the PMAV( meet with Rita - not just @ a local branch) & forward your findings.

If that fails to get anywhere then get yourself a group of prospectors together who are prepared to put it on the line. Set up on a waterway that is on the list in a rather public location & start panning and sluicing away. Somewhere like the Thompson river at the Walhalla Bridge.
You would definitely raise attention of the ranger & take it from there where it leads.

Maybe most of us are like sheep & if a piece of paper says we can't do something, then we won't. I don't know...

I do know that prospecting to me is one of my hobbies(& only that - a hobby to me). I struggle enough just to get out there to pan or sluice for 2hrs a month. I like most of the sheep just arn't able to or willing to get so deep in a battle with rangers, gov. departments, police, court & lawyers etc. because we got caught doing our hobby in a place that we've been told not to.
Maybe it is going to take that to get to the bottom of it? I don't know.

Start off with meeting with PMAV, then take it from there.

I don't have the capabilities(time, finances, more time & more $ - like most) to fight the system. If you or anyone is able - give it a crack & test out what you say.

Call it weak or what but I will tho, just follow the rules(even if they are just a list on a frequently asked questions page from a government department with no laws seemingly backing them up) & do my bit of panning without fear of prosecution.
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i wouldn't worry to much about Walhalla, as i have been prospecting up there for 15 years with no problems from parks
even had one help me carry my stuff down to the river and help me set up :eek:

If that fails to get anywhere then get yourself a group of prospectors together who are prepared to put it on the line. Set up on a waterway that is on the list in a rather public location & start panning and sluicing away. Somewhere like the Thompson river at the Walhalla Bridge.
You would definitely raise attention of the ranger & take it from there where it leads.

If you want to make attention go to main street Warrandyte and do it in the Yarra.
parks WILL be all over you there
 
In all honesty, I have spent an evening and a half perusing the details of the various Acts that seem to apply, all of which anyone can access on the internet.

I have anecdotal evidence of what actually occurs with rangers in some areas on the list, the advice on the DEPI website, and my common sense (the skill of which I can only attest to from a biased point of view).

What I was truly hoping for was someone "in the know" to point me at where I and all the other questioners should be looking to set us straight once and for all.

One thing is for certain, though; practice a destructive form of prospecting, leaving excavations that can't or won't be back-filled, and you can and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

With that in mind, it may be better to leave all this as a grey area so that fewer prospectors head into the areas on the list; otherwise that small percentage that you get in any group may well and truly stuff it all up for the rest of us responsible hobbyists.
 
Marked said:
With that in mind, it may be better to leave all this as a grey area so that fewer prospectors head into the areas on the list; otherwise that small percentage that you get in any group may well and truly stuff it all up for the rest of us responsible hobbyists.
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That's a good call Marked.

If in doubt - stay out of the listed waterways
 
Still no reply from PMAV and reply from DPI was that they forwarded my email onto the specific area that looks after this...
 
PaulFritz said:
Still no reply from PMAV and reply from DPI was that they forwarded my email onto the specific area that looks after this...
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I do hope you get a response soon.

If you've found a loophole then I recon they'll tighten the ropes quick smart.

Please keep us updated or any response.

Cheers - Marty
 
Found this somewhere on the interwebs that makes things a little clearer in my own mind:

Public land management, crown land management and DEPI
The 8 million hectares of public land that exists in Victoria is managed by a number of different bodies. The Department of Environment and Primary Industries (DEPI) has a major land management responsibility. The main types of public land linked to DEPI to oversee includes:

National Parks, State Parks, and other parks land to be managed and protected under the National Parks Act 1975 and National Parks (Marine National Parks and Marine Sanctuaries) Act 2002
Crown land reserves land reserved for a variety of public purposes under the Crown Land (Reserves) Act 1978
State forests land to be managed and protected under the Forests Act 1958
Unreserved Crown land land which may be sold or occupied through the issue of various types of leases and licences under the Land Act 1958

As overseer, DEPI may allocate the management of Crown land to others to manage on its behalf. Once Crown land has been placed under the management of another land manager, that manager is then responsible for day to day management, improving, maintaining and controlling the land for its intended use, although DEPI may provide advice and assistance to them. Typically these other managers are Parks Victoria, local government, other government agencies, committees of management and trusts.
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I get the feeling that it is largely up to the DEPI how they decide to manage the land on "the list", and if they decide that prospecting isn't allowed, then it isn't...unless you get the OK from Parks in your particular area of interest who do the actual managing and policing in most areas.
 
Tentatively...

The Museum Board is not a government department...but a private organisation. Any OK to prospecting by them would not stand in a court of law if it were against the wishes of those managing the land on behalf of the DEPI...

Really need a yes or no from Parks ranger in that area given my current understanding of what I have read, but being locals, you would hope that they are publishing correct info on their website.
 
Marked said:
Tentatively...

The Museum Board is not a government department...but a private organisation. Any OK to prospecting by them would not stand in a court of law if it were against the wishes of those managing the land on behalf of the DEPI...

Really need a yes or no from Parks ranger in that area given my current understanding of what I have read, but being locals, you would hope that they are publishing correct info on their website.
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Yes I understand this fact, but along with this and the fact that the area is heavily prospected. I believe it would be thrown out of court. Imagine how many tourists would have been misled. Also the local authorities must be allowing it to happen, the area is very popular.

Cheers
Waz
 
It's time these old laws were repealed or amended for todays times. There are old laws too that state a person cannot walk barefoot on a Sunday as well as it being mandatory to have someone walking in front of a horse and cart with a lantern at night or a red flag during daylight hours. It may sound ridiculous but it's still law, it has never been repealed.

Have a look at the NSW Traffic Act from 1906, you will have a good laugh. I guess as Ag Man's signature says ... If it's not broken - fix it until it is. Same probably goes for these old laws too :)
 
For my fellow Victorians - if you have issues with access, rules & regulations I would suggest you join your local PMAV group and get involved. Our PMAV fees go towards submissions and the like to Government and the PMAV represents ALL our interests at these levels.

"The Prospectors and Miners Association of Victoria is a voluntary body established to protect and enhance the rights and opportunities of those who wish to prospect, fossick or mine in the State of Victoria, Australia."

See link: http://www.pmav.org.au/
 
1384119276_pmav.png


Not a high priority on the PMAV list to do unfortunately
 
shannon said:
its all a load of crap really! why cant we prospect where we want! :mad:
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Hi Shannon,
Think you should really consider your stance, unfortunately if we all ignore the work of a few things WILL turn to crap.
Those that give their time to lobby on our behalf should be applauded and thanked, without a bit of dedication by these few the Gov't could/would listen to the lobbyists that would love to shut down Parks to exclude almost all activities (detecting/panning etc being amongst those).

Appreciate their efforts,
Thanks guys.
 

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