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Early Chinese settlers.

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Occasional_panner said:
Upside said:
What were all the Chinese doing out in the rural Australian towns back in the mid to late1800s?

Well they also made quite a few quid out of selling opium, no one likes to bring it up though.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-23/curious-melbourne-opium-dens-in-little-lon/9575652

https://www.sbs.com.au/gold/story.php?storyid=46

https://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/2639390/view-sly-grog-opium-use-was-widespread/

not exactly a great influence.

Westerners had no idea about these substances beforehand.
Seriously? They were here because the British had won the Opium Wars in which the Brits swamped China with opium - Westerners were very aware of opium, were producing it and swamping China with it against the Chinese governments wishes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

"British and American merchants, anxious to address what they perceived as a trade imbalance, determined to import the one product that the Chinese did not themselves have but which an ever-increasing number of them wanted: opium"'

This war with China . . . really seems to me so wicked as to be a national sin of the greatest possible magnitude, and it distresses me very deeply. Cannot any thing be done by petition or otherwise to awaken men's minds to the dreadful guilt we are incurring? I really do not remember, in any history, of a war undertaken with such combined injustice and baseness. Ordinary wars of conquest are to me far less wicked, than to go to war in order to maintain smuggling, and that smuggling consisting in the introduction of a demoralizing drug, which the government of China wishes to keep out, and which we, for the lucre of gain, want to introduce by force; and in this quarrel are going to burn and slay in the pride of our supposed superiority. Thomas Arnold to W. W. Hull, March 18, 1840

http://www.victorianweb.org/history/empire/opiumwars/opiumwars1.html

Yes, they used and sold opium - millions of them were addicted to it as a result of British actions. And the sale of opiates was not illegal here until into the 20th C from memory. It was widely used as morphine ("laudanum"), a popular addiction of Australian ladies....
 
goldierocks said:
Occasional_panner said:
Upside said:
What were all the Chinese doing out in the rural Australian towns back in the mid to late1800s?

Well they also made quite a few quid out of selling opium, no one likes to bring it up though.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-23/curious-melbourne-opium-dens-in-little-lon/9575652

https://www.sbs.com.au/gold/story.php?storyid=46

https://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/2639390/view-sly-grog-opium-use-was-widespread/

not exactly a great influence.

Westerners had no idea about these substances beforehand.
Seriously? They were here because the British had won the Opium Wars in which the Brits swamped China with opium - Westerners were very aware of opium, were producing it and swamping China with it against the Chinese governments wishes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

"British and American merchants, anxious to address what they perceived as a trade imbalance, determined to import the one product that the Chinese did not themselves have but which an ever-increasing number of them wanted: opium"'

This war with China . . . really seems to me so wicked as to be a national sin of the greatest possible magnitude, and it distresses me very deeply. Cannot any thing be done by petition or otherwise to awaken men's minds to the dreadful guilt we are incurring? I really do not remember, in any history, of a war undertaken with such combined injustice and baseness. Ordinary wars of conquest are to me far less wicked, than to go to war in order to maintain smuggling, and that smuggling consisting in the introduction of a demoralizing drug, which the government of China wishes to keep out, and which we, for the lucre of gain, want to introduce by force; and in this quarrel are going to burn and slay in the pride of our supposed superiority. Thomas Arnold to W. W. Hull, March 18, 1840

http://www.victorianweb.org/history/empire/opiumwars/opiumwars1.html

Yes, they used and sold opium - millions of them were addicted to it as a result of British actions. And the sale of opiates was not illegal here until into the 20th C from memory. It was widely used as morphine ("laudanum"), a popular addiction of Australian ladies....

I don't recall opium being grown in England.
 
Don't just look at the excuses. Look for the root cause of the problem.
Do you actually think we caused the opium problem? It was rampant in Asia for centuries WELL before we came across Asians.
We didn't discover it, WE didn't grow it, that was an evil thing introduced to us.
If the English conducted in unscrupulous behaviour well.... no surprise there.
 
If you look back thru the history of early days Australia
Most country towns had a market garden run by the a Chinese...
Most of these towns had an Opium den as well
Not saying all towns had this ...
Research is a wonderful thing to find out about his wonderful country we live in....

Cheers Nanjim
Jim
 
Occasional_panner said:
goldierocks said:
Occasional_panner said:
Upside said:
What were all the Chinese doing out in the rural Australian towns back in the mid to late1800s?

Well they also made quite a few quid out of selling opium, no one likes to bring it up though.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-23/curious-melbourne-opium-dens-in-little-lon/9575652

https://www.sbs.com.au/gold/story.php?storyid=46

https://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/2639390/view-sly-grog-opium-use-was-widespread/

not exactly a great influence.

Westerners had no idea about these substances beforehand.
Seriously? They were here because the British had won the Opium Wars in which the Brits swamped China with opium - Westerners were very aware of opium, were producing it and swamping China with it against the Chinese governments wishes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

"British and American merchants, anxious to address what they perceived as a trade imbalance, determined to import the one product that the Chinese did not themselves have but which an ever-increasing number of them wanted: opium"'

This war with China . . . really seems to me so wicked as to be a national sin of the greatest possible magnitude, and it distresses me very deeply. Cannot any thing be done by petition or otherwise to awaken men's minds to the dreadful guilt we are incurring? I really do not remember, in any history, of a war undertaken with such combined injustice and baseness. Ordinary wars of conquest are to me far less wicked, than to go to war in order to maintain smuggling, and that smuggling consisting in the introduction of a demoralizing drug, which the government of China wishes to keep out, and which we, for the lucre of gain, want to introduce by force; and in this quarrel are going to burn and slay in the pride of our supposed superiority. Thomas Arnold to W. W. Hull, March 18, 1840

http://www.victorianweb.org/history/empire/opiumwars/opiumwars1.html

Yes, they used and sold opium - millions of them were addicted to it as a result of British actions. And the sale of opiates was not illegal here until into the 20th C from memory. It was widely used as morphine ("laudanum"), a popular addiction of Australian ladies....
I don't recall opium being grown in England.
No, it was produced by Britain in India (by the British East India Co) when it was a British Colony, as I noted. The Chinese did not grow it in any quantity, and were trying to prevent its importation to China.
The other point I was making was that it was not seen as an "evil" during the gold rushes, so I am not excusing anything - there does not seem to have been any crime:
"Before the 1868 Pharmacy Act, barbers, confectioners, ironmongers, stationers, tobacconists, wine merchants all sold opium.[4] It was easy to come by and many people took it, including numerous authors, such as Elizabeth Barrett-Browning, Lord Byron, Wilkie Collins, George Crabbe, Charles Dickens, John Keats, Percy Bysshe Shelley, and Walter Scott.[5] Other drugs were legally available too: it is possible that Queen Victoria, a figure considered the epitome of respectability, was prescribed a tincture of marijuana for menstrual cramps; there are unconfirmed reports that she wrote a testimonial for the hugely popular product Vin Mariani, a mixture of alcohol and cocaine, and she certainly enjoyed the delightful beyond measure effects of chloroform when it was administered to her during childbirth.[6] Opium in particular was commonly and routinely prescribed for an alarming number of ailments to both children and adults, including nervous cough, hooping cough, inflammation of the intestines, toothache, dropsy and the hiccups.[7] Laudanum, the most popular form in which opium was taken (dissolved in alcohol) was recommended in cases of fever, sleeplessness, a tickly cough, bilious colic, inflammation of the bladder, cholera morbus, diarrhoea, headache, wind, and piles, and many other illnesses.[8] The concept of addiction was not understood at this time and it was not until the late 19th century that people fully appreciated the horror associated with habitual use and withdrawal".


We can't re-write history, and certainly not to suit our prejudices (I was stating facts, not making moral judgements, although some did so against Britain at the time). Water under the bridge, the sands of time....we know even smoking tobacco is risky now....
 
goldierocks said:
Occasional_panner said:
Upside said:
What were all the Chinese doing out in the rural Australian towns back in the mid to late1800s?

Well they also made quite a few quid out of selling opium, no one likes to bring it up though.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-23/curious-melbourne-opium-dens-in-little-lon/9575652

https://www.sbs.com.au/gold/story.php?storyid=46

https://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/2639390/view-sly-grog-opium-use-was-widespread/

not exactly a great influence.

Westerners had no idea about these substances beforehand.
Seriously? They were here because the British had won the Opium Wars in which the Brits swamped China with opium - Westerners were very aware of opium, were producing it and swamping China with it against the Chinese governments wishes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

"British and American merchants, anxious to address what they perceived as a trade imbalance, determined to import the one product that the Chinese did not themselves have but which an ever-increasing number of them wanted: opium"'

This war with China . . . really seems to me so wicked as to be a national sin of the greatest possible magnitude, and it distresses me very deeply. Cannot any thing be done by petition or otherwise to awaken men's minds to the dreadful guilt we are incurring? I really do not remember, in any history, of a war undertaken with such combined injustice and baseness. Ordinary wars of conquest are to me far less wicked, than to go to war in order to maintain smuggling, and that smuggling consisting in the introduction of a demoralizing drug, which the government of China wishes to keep out, and which we, for the lucre of gain, want to introduce by force; and in this quarrel are going to burn and slay in the pride of our supposed superiority. Thomas Arnold to W. W. Hull, March 18, 1840

http://www.victorianweb.org/history/empire/opiumwars/opiumwars1.html

Yes, they used and sold opium - millions of them were addicted to it as a result of British actions. And the sale of opiates was not illegal here until into the 20th C from memory. It was widely used as morphine ("laudanum"), a popular addiction of Australian ladies....

One crucial point you are not addressing is the fact that you are referring to issues relating to the English/Americans in China. Different circumstances and a different population, in a different CONTINENT.
 
Occasional_panner said:
goldierocks said:
Occasional_panner said:
Upside said:
What were all the Chinese doing out in the rural Australian towns back in the mid to late1800s?

Well they also made quite a few quid out of selling opium, no one likes to bring it up though.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-23/curious-melbourne-opium-dens-in-little-lon/9575652

https://www.sbs.com.au/gold/story.php?storyid=46

https://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/2639390/view-sly-grog-opium-use-was-widespread/

not exactly a great influence.

Westerners had no idea about these substances beforehand.
Seriously? They were here because the British had won the Opium Wars in which the Brits swamped China with opium - Westerners were very aware of opium, were producing it and swamping China with it against the Chinese governments wishes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

"British and American merchants, anxious to address what they perceived as a trade imbalance, determined to import the one product that the Chinese did not themselves have but which an ever-increasing number of them wanted: opium"'

This war with China . . . really seems to me so wicked as to be a national sin of the greatest possible magnitude, and it distresses me very deeply. Cannot any thing be done by petition or otherwise to awaken men's minds to the dreadful guilt we are incurring? I really do not remember, in any history, of a war undertaken with such combined injustice and baseness. Ordinary wars of conquest are to me far less wicked, than to go to war in order to maintain smuggling, and that smuggling consisting in the introduction of a demoralizing drug, which the government of China wishes to keep out, and which we, for the lucre of gain, want to introduce by force; and in this quarrel are going to burn and slay in the pride of our supposed superiority. Thomas Arnold to W. W. Hull, March 18, 1840

http://www.victorianweb.org/history/empire/opiumwars/opiumwars1.html

Yes, they used and sold opium - millions of them were addicted to it as a result of British actions. And the sale of opiates was not illegal here until into the 20th C from memory. It was widely used as morphine ("laudanum"), a popular addiction of Australian ladies....

One crucial point you are not addressing is the fact that you are referring to issues relating to the English/Americans in China. Different circumstances and a different population, in a different CONTINENT.
Trying to blame a foreign powers influence on a completely separate country is simply RIDICULOUS when comparing troubles created in Australia.
What I was referring to was a localised issue HERE in AUSTRALIA.... YES, READ AGAIN, AUSTRALIA, what happened between the Engligh/Americans and China is for them to whine about. DON'T blame Aussies for it!!
We were the British then, there was no country "Australia" and no Australians. And it was not considered a crime because we were unaware of how serious the drugs could be. The famous geologist Stirling (eg the former town of Stirling in East Gippsland, Mt Stirling near Mt Buller) had a wife addicted to morphine, as was common at the time. In the same way now, we are starting to realise the seriousness of prescription opiates....

But that is getting away from the main point I was making - they were not settlers in the main (as per the heading to this blog) but contracted labour, and I was answering the question as to where they went (back to China). The opium wars were simply the reason that they came here in the main...and why they did not stay.

I'll drop out of this discussion now, as I am limited to facts.
 
Occasional_panner said:
goldierocks said:
......
We were the British then, there was no country "Australia" and no Australians. .

Not too sure about that "mate"
Trying to blame our nation for another nations actions is traitorous.
The Australian nation was only proclaimed half a century (exactly) after our gold discoveries, but that it really irrelevant, since I said the British were responsible for many of the Chinese coming to the Australian gold rushes and not staying, and I did not mention Australians at any time (only you did), except so far as saying that there was no such nation then.

Anyway, this is too circular for me so off to bed...
 
Gentlemen,

This started out as an interesting thread...
I thought I may learn something more than I mostly know from early Australian history....
From reading and listening to the stories of the old fellas.....

Unfortunately this thread has turned into a ****** competition....
Which to my mind is not good...
Yes there were Opium wars that has been relegated to history...

Terrra Nullas The Great South Land also on some old maps Terra Australis etc etc.....
The Mahogany Ship on the South Australian Coast.....all consigned to History......

Yes we as Australians were never there till the British sent the he First Fleet.... this is written in history
The Rum Rebelion.... Govener Bligh ex Captian Bligh of The Bounty ....more History.....

Guys can we get back on track......

Cheers Nanjim
Jim
 
Nanjim said:
Gentlemen,

This started out as an interesting thread...
I thought I may learn something more than I mostly know from early Australian history....
From reading and listening to the stories of the old fellas.....

Unfortunately this thread has turned into a pissing competition....
Which to my mind is not good...
Yes there were Opium wars that has been relegated to history...

Terrra Nullas The Great South Land also on some old maps Terra Australis etc etc.....
The Mahogany Ship on the South Australian Coast.....all consigned to History......

Yes we as Australians were never there till the British sent the he First Fleet.... this is written in history
The Rum Rebelion.... Govener Bligh ex Captian Bligh of The Bounty ....more History.....

Guys can we get back on track......

Cheers Nanjim
Jim
I agree with you mate i was enjoying this and learning something
Its such a shame that this sort of thing happens
 
Occasional_panner said:
mudgee hunter said:
Bare in mind of governments figures of the Chinese population during the "rush" days where most likely played down dramatically, following the uproar in the first part of the "white Australia policy".
Boasting how many of them returned to the motherland. And how few came out.
My belief is this cannot be believed in any government documentation of the era.
Due to the fact of denial of the truth of what was. Trying to play down the truth.
Many found other ports in Australia to evade the migration laws, and unaccounted for. Walking thousands of kilometers to the gold fields.
Yeah, they weren't allowed to dock in Melb, so they landed in Adelaide and bloody walked the whole way to Vic goldfields.

Whilst he European diggers "rushed" to every rumoured gold find the celestials (aka the Chinese) moved onto the newly abandoned ground, stayed and then systematically and literally "cleaned up". They were notoriously secretive about their gold take, and it was substantial. Mostly they were "bonded" workers (aka slaves) and the gold they won was sent back to the person that they were bonded to and who had paid their passage to the colonies. You couldn't imagine a more disperate conjunction - the "freebooters" vs the "bonded worker" and all pursuing the golden bounty. I believe that the family they left behind were held responsible for the passage debt etc and so it's little wonder that they worked so hard.

casper
 
They also brought mining expertise with them (according to one Chinese historian I spoke to), which might be the reason they were noted for recovering gold in worked out ground (my speculation). We still have descendants of some, with broad Aussie accents who often have appearances that would suggest Celtic ancestry (eg with red hair) - but with surnames such as Mong.
 
Well it appears that some don't like my tone, I'll attempt to be nicer and not tell people to "shut up"
I'm not used to people being so fragile.

While the opium issue between mainland China and the dutch east company is interesting, it wasn't what I was referring to.
The point I was trying to make was the Chinese were the ones to bring opium and start opium dens here in this country, (not talking about other continents).
I think that's been covered enough now.
 
Jaros said:

Some new happenings re my Father in Law -Barry Shying

A chapter of Australia migration history
Commemoration 200 years of Chinese migration to Australia
22nd July 2018 Melbourne Town Hall
2:00pm-4:30pm
MC: Jet Li and Tian Hua / Patrick Wang and Mia Paulse

Preface:
1:45pm Lion dance

1:55pm Screen promotion

2:00pm Section 1: The arrival of Mr Mak Sai Ying
Screen: Official documentation and record
Interview: Mr Barry Shying, Great Grandson of Mak Sai Ying
MC Patrick Wang

2:10pm MC introduce VIP and Speeches
Junxi Su Presidentof the Federation of Chinese Associations Vic

Mr Zhao Jian Consul General
Chinese Consulate General Melbourne, Peoples Republic of China

Message from the Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull

The Hon. Robbin Scot MP, Minister for Multicultural Affairs

The Hon. Robert Clark MP represents state opposition leader Matthew Guy

Message from the state opposition leader Matthew Guy

The Hon. Ms Inga Peulich MP, Shadow minister for Multicultural Affairs

The Hon. Bruce Atkinson President of the legislative Council Victoria

2:45pm Performance: MC Mia Paulse
Penleigh Essendon Grammar Chinese band: Waltz matilda/Horse race
Vocal solo: The origin of the Yellow River

3:00pm Section Two: Chinese miners stories MC Tian Hua/ Jet Li
Story 1: Chinese Football club and the team Rice Eater
Ballarat East Point Club President Mr Michael Walsh

Story 2: Chinese Festival in 1892 Screen show

Story 3: The 120 years old dragon and lion
Sovereign Hill Gold Museum manager Mrs Michelle Smith
Story 4: A Little Canton
Ararat Gum Sam Chinese Museum Mr Henry Gunston

Story 5: Melbourne Chinese Museum Mr Bill Au
Story 6: The See Yup Temple
Mr Chang Ran WU See Yup Society And
Mazu culture
Dr Yihan Lin Mazu Culture Association

(A special activity to be confirmed)
Performance: Melbourne Chinese indoor choir: Cantonese song: My feeling over the Ten thousand crags and torrents I still call Australia Home

3:40pm Section 3: Chinese soldiers story
Story: Six brothers of the Lepp family in World War 1
Descendants of Lepps family Beau Lepp and partner Marcus Ryan

Dialogue: Wellington Lee/Robert Chong
MC: Jet Li

3:55pm Section 4: New migrant New Australia MC Tian Hua
Short Video about Chinese students and their families/Successful business migrants

Speaker: Mr Chin Tan
Former Chairperson of the Victorian Multicultural Commission/Director, Multicultural Engagement, Swinburne University

Performance: Vocal solo: The Springs Ballet Yage LIN

4:05pm Section 5: Integration
Screen show

Dialogue
MR Tes Bin Tchen Former Senator, Victorian Multicultural Commission Commissioner
Andrew Davenport Mayor for City of Whitehorse
Paul Klisaris Mayor for City of Monash
MC: Tian Hua

4:15pm Performance: Xin Jin Shan Symphonic poem
Xin Jinshan Orchestra Conductor: Thaddues Huang
Group singing: I am, you are, we are Australian
Whitehorse Chinese Association choir
Melbourne Chinese Singing and Dance Troup
Melbourne Singing Lovers Network
Teacher Professor Mrs Xincong LIU
MC Mia Paulse

4:40pm Conclusion
 
I have some friends who are 5th generation Australian from Chinese heritage. Many of them share the same last name which is actually a Chinese first name which probably would have been a clerical error as Chinese often quote there family name first in direct translation. Some of them remain Chinese looking as they married Chinese locals or brides from China and others have blonde hair and blue eyes but carry still carry the Chinese name. Which makes the younger members new class room teaches scratch there heads during roll call. Very interesting family.
 

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