I will have to go there I think. Lots of dollars I guess. Just need to find a bit more.ctxkid said:2 100's and you would not know yourselfRockwall said:ower:
you would cut down on generator use :Y:
Deep Cycle Battery brands, types, systems & installations
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Goldchaser1
dave
Rockwall you have a fair bit of solar allready,ya should be seeing 15 amps? easy in good weather,all the stuff your running id agree 200 id go for,where runnin about 4-5 led lights,12v pump,90 ltr fridge,stereo,chargin 2 phones,a 4500,gpz7000,sdc,2 uhfs etc,first two 4-5 day trips lowest we got was 80% when we had lots of bits charging and a couple threw the inverter,got two 130 panels on roof of camper parked so there facing arvo sun mainly fully recharged in 3-4 hrs odd,10 amps roughly comin in,just ordered a 120 watt solar blanket for backup if weather is *****.
I havent set ours up correctly yet,i have to flatten the batteries this week so the computer has the correct base reading on capacity,flatten then recharge to 100% so it reads correct capacity,itll be interesting to see how long from flat to full it takes......
I havent set ours up correctly yet,i have to flatten the batteries this week so the computer has the correct base reading on capacity,flatten then recharge to 100% so it reads correct capacity,itll be interesting to see how long from flat to full it takes......
bit of interesting semi-technical reading
Organic Solar Cells .... these may be the future
I have read elsewhere its envisaged that ultimately, organic cells will be cheaper to produce, & also more environmentally friendly & sustainable.
This article outlines the new developments that have addressed one key issue, that of durability (lack of lifespan)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1544-1
Organic Solar Cells .... these may be the future
I have read elsewhere its envisaged that ultimately, organic cells will be cheaper to produce, & also more environmentally friendly & sustainable.
This article outlines the new developments that have addressed one key issue, that of durability (lack of lifespan)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1544-1
Goldchaser1
dave
Ded Driver said:
Is that like a vegan battery DD?
no animals were harmed or eaten in the making of this post :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:Goldchaser1 said:
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Ded Driver said:
That's because you ate them last night,
layful: layful: layful: :lol: :lol: :lol:
sure did :koala: :fire:
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Ded Driver said:sure did
Koala Buggers yum yum :lol: :lol:
erfect:
Goldchaser1
dave
theres nothing quite like panda bear kebabs,garlic aoli and some lettuce,oh yum......
Wow, that was a read and a half :/ but got through it and ended up even more confused than when I started I'm a mechanical bloke and anything above the basic electrical wiring fuses my mechanical brain. :8
I needed to read this thread as I realised over the last couple of weeks that I have created an electrical problem with Lizzy's functionality as a camping tug/support.
When we bought the Lizzard it was a tow truck, 12v for the cab and front end (plus back lights) and 24v for the tray with the jib which had two 24v winches one of which we have retained for a rear help system. Because of this we kept the 24v system, added a couple of solar panels, door lights and wired for 3 fridges, a Waeco 40 and two Evakool Drawers. The Waeco and one drawer are operational and the second drawer is ready to fit.
Courtesy of a show salesman we bought 2 x 100A Lead Crystal batteries as the original batteries were stuffed, so that's the basic setup.
When we were away the 24v generator failed so we had to rely on the solar and discovered that the batteries did not respond well to solar charging, top-up good but once the voltage started to drop that was it. We didn't have a gene with us so no other source to charge!
The reality dawned that if I had gone 12v we could have jumped the alternator for a boost as once running the Lizzard doesn't need that main battery being charged, no computers, only brake lights and indicators plus UHF etc so the starter battery would have coped easily. Also it would have opened the option to plug in additional solar... yeah it was at home! The idea made sense except for the Victron MPPT 100/20 is too small for 5 panels. We had a couple of spare deep cycles with us so I switched and they worked much better on pure solar, but solar system struggled in the smoke haze from the NSW fires. Once we got to Tingha everything worked much better, the beer and Lazy Bears (Dinah's drop) were cold and the meat stayed frozen at -14C so all was good.
Moving forward, the decision has been made that we need to go 12V throughout the vehicle, possibly up the Alternator which is currently 70A, find a 12V motor of the Warn 9000 and take out the 24V charge/feed system. We also have some roof realestate on Lizzy to add maybe a couple more solar panels. Fit an Anderson so we are able to plug in the portable solar, particularly as we have a 180W 3 panel system, and finally maybe add a 240V input, though I am not sure where I would fit it, possibly inside one of the chests.
The big question is how to put this all together so it works without spending a fortune. The core elements are: One Alternator, One start battery, 3 or 4 solar panels in parallel (2 are currently in series), 3 fridges, a winch, 2 aux batteries either Lead Crystal or Deep Cycle, a portable solar system and maybe a 240v charger when all else fails. The wiring I can cope with, but managing the whole system so it works is waaaaaayyy beyond me and I don't trust the typical single product salesmen, too many vested interests to be objective.
Anyway having read through the thread, we have some very clever people discussing things way over my head. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction for which I will be eternally grateful and happily pay in 1000 :beer: :beer: :beer: around a camp fire somewhere in this wide brown land.
Hugh
I'm a mechanical bloke and anything above the basic electrical wiring fuses my mechanical brain. :8 I needed to read this thread as I realised over the last couple of weeks that I have created an electrical problem with Lizzy's functionality as a camping tug/support.
When we bought the Lizzard it was a tow truck, 12v for the cab and front end (plus back lights) and 24v for the tray with the jib which had two 24v winches one of which we have retained for a rear help system. Because of this we kept the 24v system, added a couple of solar panels, door lights and wired for 3 fridges, a Waeco 40 and two Evakool Drawers. The Waeco and one drawer are operational and the second drawer is ready to fit.
Courtesy of a show salesman we bought 2 x 100A Lead Crystal batteries as the original batteries were stuffed, so that's the basic setup.
When we were away the 24v generator failed so we had to rely on the solar and discovered that the batteries did not respond well to solar charging, top-up good but once the voltage started to drop that was it. We didn't have a gene with us so no other source to charge!
The reality dawned that if I had gone 12v we could have jumped the alternator for a boost as once running the Lizzard doesn't need that main battery being charged, no computers, only brake lights and indicators plus UHF etc so the starter battery would have coped easily. Also it would have opened the option to plug in additional solar... yeah it was at home! The idea made sense except for the Victron MPPT 100/20 is too small for 5 panels. We had a couple of spare deep cycles with us so I switched and they worked much better on pure solar, but solar system struggled in the smoke haze from the NSW fires. Once we got to Tingha everything worked much better, the beer and Lazy Bears (Dinah's drop) were cold and the meat stayed frozen at -14C so all was good.
Moving forward, the decision has been made that we need to go 12V throughout the vehicle, possibly up the Alternator which is currently 70A, find a 12V motor of the Warn 9000 and take out the 24V charge/feed system. We also have some roof realestate on Lizzy to add maybe a couple more solar panels. Fit an Anderson so we are able to plug in the portable solar, particularly as we have a 180W 3 panel system, and finally maybe add a 240V input, though I am not sure where I would fit it, possibly inside one of the chests.
The big question is how to put this all together so it works without spending a fortune. The core elements are: One Alternator, One start battery, 3 or 4 solar panels in parallel (2 are currently in series), 3 fridges, a winch, 2 aux batteries either Lead Crystal or Deep Cycle, a portable solar system and maybe a 240v charger when all else fails. The wiring I can cope with, but managing the whole system so it works is waaaaaayyy beyond me and I don't trust the typical single product salesmen, too many vested interests to be objective.
Anyway having read through the thread, we have some very clever people discussing things way over my head. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction for which I will be eternally grateful and happily pay in 1000 :beer: :beer: :beer: around a camp fire somewhere in this wide brown land.
Hugh
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Dihusky said:Wow, that was a read and a half :/ but got through it and ended up even more confused than when I started
I needed to read this thread as I realised over the last couple of weeks that I have created an electrical problem with Lizzy's functionality as a camping tug/support.
When we bought the Lizzard it was a tow truck, 12v for the cab and front end (plus back lights) and 24v for the tray with the jib which had two 24v winches one of which we have retained for a rear help system. Because of this we kept the 24v system, added a couple of solar panels, door lights and wired for 3 fridges, a Waeco 40 and two Evakool Drawers. The Waeco and one drawer are operational and the second drawer is ready to fit.
Courtesy of a show salesman we bought 2 x 100A Lead Crystal batteries as the original batteries were stuffed, so that's the basic setup.
When we were away the 24v generator failed so we had to rely on the solar and discovered that the batteries did not respond well to solar charging, top-up good but once the voltage started to drop that was it. We didn't have a gene with us so no other source to charge!
The reality dawned that if I had gone 12v we could have jumped the alternator for a boost as once running the Lizzard doesn't need that main battery being charged, no computers, only brake lights and indicators plus UHF etc so the starter battery would have coped easily. Also it would have opened the option to plug in additional solar... yeah it was at home! The idea made sense except for the Victron MPPT 100/20 is too small for 5 panels. We had a couple of spare deep cycles with us so I switched and they worked much better on pure solar, but solar system struggled in the smoke haze from the NSW fires. Once we got to Tingha everything worked much better, the beer and Lazy Bears (Dinah's drop) were cold and the meat stayed frozen at -14C so all was good.
Moving forward, the decision has been made that we need to go 12V throughout the vehicle, possibly up the Alternator which is currently 70A, find a 12V motor of the Warn 9000 and take out the 24V charge/feed system. We also have some roof realestate on Lizzy to add maybe a couple more solar panels. Fit an Anderson so we are able to plug in the portable solar, particularly as we have a 180W 3 panel system, and finally maybe add a 240V input, though I am not sure where I would fit it, possibly inside one of the chests.
The big question is how to put this all together so it works without spending a fortune. The core elements are: One Alternator, One start battery, 3 or 4 solar panels in parallel (2 are currently in series), 3 fridges, a winch, 2 aux batteries either Lead Crystal or Deep Cycle, a portable solar system and maybe a 240v charger when all else fails. The wiring I can cope with, but managing the whole system so it works is waaaaaayyy beyond me and I don't trust the typical single product salesmen, too many vested interests to be objective.
Anyway having read through the thread, we have some very clever people discussing things way over my head. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction for which I will be eternally grateful and happily pay in 1000 :beer: :beer: :beer: around a camp fire somewhere in this wide brown land.
Hugh
Lead Crystal is going to be the Ultimate battery because they will take as much power as you system can put out and they will charge at leased 3 to 4 times faster than Lead Acid Deep cycle batteries or AGM batteries and you get to use just about every drop of power it holds with zero damage and according to their charts they can put out up to 8500-9000 cycles, At half the cost of lithium.
Goldchaser1
dave
If ya gunna be parked up for days on end quite often dihusky personally id go lithium and solar as an independent set up,(alternator not connected to the system),it simplifies your power supply,having used ours for near 6 months now ill never go back to conventional batterys for the bush.....
Thanks for the input guys, I have the LCs so would prefer to stick with them provided I can make the system work. Pumped a lot of :money: :money: into Lizzy so far and Dinah has put the clamps on except of essentials now purely functionality improvements!
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Dihusky said:Thanks for the input guys, I have the LCs so would prefer to stick with them provided I can make the system work. Pumped a lot of :money: :money: into Lizzy so far and Dinah has put the clamps on except of essentials now
You say the 100/20 MPPT is too small for use with 5 panels, What size panel are you talking about, The 100/20 will run 5 X 120w or 4 X 140w panel you could even run 6 or more if you split them into 2 banks of 3 panels or 3 banks of 2 panels according to the Solar Store I have been dealing with, They mostly do RV and Off Grid and Home Conversions and really know their stuff.
Ridge Runner said:Dihusky said:Thanks for the input guys, I have the LCs so would prefer to stick with them provided I can make the system work. Pumped a lot of :money: :money: into Lizzy so far and Dinah has put the clamps on except of essentials now
You say the 100/20 MPPT is too small for use with 5 panels, What size panel are you talking about, The 100/20 will run 5 X 120w or 4 X 140w panel you could even run 6 or more if you split them into 2 banks of 3 panels or 3 banks of 2 panels according to the Solar Store I have been dealing with, They mostly do RV and Off Grid and Home Conversions and really know their stuff.
Specs in the booklet say it will only run 290W of panels on a 12V system unless I'm reading them wrong?
Goldchaser1
dave
So your batteries are ok?
When you said they didnt respond well to solar i thought ya batteries were toast,so a lack of sun or panels is what your inferring?
I think 3 fridges dihusky with 240 of agm or crystal (not knowing much on the crystals) will be a struggle with even 300? watts of panels,if the weathers not perfect for a cuppla days i think ya a bit on the light side battery wise for 3 fridges,lights and other odds an ends,you can do the maths till the cows come home but the weather is the biggest factor,and storing that power,trial and error,which as above youve allready started,get a bms on the system,no guesswork then,youll know all day everyday exactly where you stand.
When i put ours togethor the goal hopefully was to not have to rely on the genny,it worked out better then expected actually,i thought wed have it going parked for a week odd in one spot,we did 3 weeks and didnt fire it up,the car doesnt charge our van either,so you could say 6 weeks (on the road) fridge an freezer packed and using lights recharging etc etc.No skimping on power usage.
Youll find out soon enough,most days with enough panels youll be ok,its those 12-14+ hours running fridges overnight(some maths help here as ya guaranteed no sun. lol) with solar that does the damage,more panels or batteries will sort it,good luck and keep us informed.....
Also talk to this mob if ya interested,I wouldnt buy panels off them,$$$ ouch but they know there *****.....
https://www.solar4rvs.com.au/
When you said they didnt respond well to solar i thought ya batteries were toast,so a lack of sun or panels is what your inferring?
I think 3 fridges dihusky with 240 of agm or crystal (not knowing much on the crystals) will be a struggle with even 300? watts of panels,if the weathers not perfect for a cuppla days i think ya a bit on the light side battery wise for 3 fridges,lights and other odds an ends,you can do the maths till the cows come home but the weather is the biggest factor,and storing that power,trial and error,which as above youve allready started,get a bms on the system,no guesswork then,youll know all day everyday exactly where you stand.
When i put ours togethor the goal hopefully was to not have to rely on the genny,it worked out better then expected actually,i thought wed have it going parked for a week odd in one spot,we did 3 weeks and didnt fire it up,the car doesnt charge our van either,so you could say 6 weeks (on the road) fridge an freezer packed and using lights recharging etc etc.No skimping on power usage.
Youll find out soon enough,most days with enough panels youll be ok,its those 12-14+ hours running fridges overnight(some maths help here as ya guaranteed no sun. lol) with solar that does the damage,more panels or batteries will sort it,good luck and keep us informed.....
Also talk to this mob if ya interested,I wouldnt buy panels off them,$$$ ouch but they know there *****.....
https://www.solar4rvs.com.au/
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Dihusky said:Ridge Runner said:Dihusky said:Thanks for the input guys, I have the LCs so would prefer to stick with them provided I can make the system work. Pumped a lot of :money: :money: into Lizzy so far and Dinah has put the clamps on except of essentials now
You say the 100/20 MPPT is too small for use with 5 panels, What size panel are you talking about, The 100/20 will run 5 X 120w or 4 X 140w panel you could even run 6 or more if you split them into 2 banks of 3 panels or 3 banks of 2 panels according to the Solar Store I have been dealing with, They mostly do RV and Off Grid and Home Conversions and really know their stuff.
Specs in the booklet say it will only run 290W of panels on a 12V system unless I'm reading them wrong?
Yes you are, If you hook up 4 X 140w panel in series that will give you 560w in total and around the 90v going in to the Controller which it will convert down to suit a 12v system, But because they are in series even on a bad day SAY it is only putting out 45v that's still 45v going in to the controller So it will still put out well over 14v in to the Batteries,
I told the Solar Store exactly what I wanted to do and they Told me that the 100/20 Victron and 4 X 140w panels would be the right combination because even on Cloudy days you always get the maximum Input Voltage to the Batteries and that is the exact system They worked out for me because Not only do I want mine for Camping but I want it to work as an Off Grid system to, And their Design Tech Is the smartest Guy I have ever come across when it comes to Solar power His Brain spits out these Numbers faster than I can tell him what I want and before I have the next question ready he has already told me the Answer,
Your 100/20 will easily handle 4 140w panels and 4 X 150w will put it right on the edge, Then you can go to 6 panels by splitting them in to 2 banks of 3, etc, The secrete is in how you configure the way the panels go in to the Controller,
So Try and keep the panels around 140w each and get 4 of them just to keep it simple, 4 X 150w would be peaking the system when they are all in One String, OK
Hope that helps.
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Dihusky said:Ridge Runner said:Dihusky said:Thanks for the input guys, I have the LCs so would prefer to stick with them provided I can make the system work. Pumped a lot of :money: :money: into Lizzy so far and Dinah has put the clamps on except of essentials now
You say the 100/20 MPPT is too small for use with 5 panels, What size panel are you talking about, The 100/20 will run 5 X 120w or 4 X 140w panel you could even run 6 or more if you split them into 2 banks of 3 panels or 3 banks of 2 panels according to the Solar Store I have been dealing with, They mostly do RV and Off Grid and Home Conversions and really know their stuff.
Specs in the booklet say it will only run 290W of panels on a 12V system unless I'm reading them wrong?
I just Spoke to the Guys who designed my setup and he just said that That 290w is the Nominal Figure Not the Limit, Ok.
condor22
Mike
Dihusky said:Ridge Runner said:Dihusky said:Thanks for the input guys, I have the LCs so would prefer to stick with them provided I can make the system work. Pumped a lot of :money: :money: into Lizzy so far and Dinah has put the clamps on except of essentials now
You say the 100/20 MPPT is too small for use with 5 panels, What size panel are you talking about, The 100/20 will run 5 X 120w or 4 X 140w panel you could even run 6 or more if you split them into 2 banks of 3 panels or 3 banks of 2 panels according to the Solar Store I have been dealing with, They mostly do RV and Off Grid and Home Conversions and really know their stuff.
Specs in the booklet say it will only run 290W of panels on a 12V system unless I'm reading them wrong?
You are correct re 290W @ 12V. the 100/20A is a 20 amp charger. If you put 40A into it, it will still only charge at 20 amps
. However, on days where panel output per panel is down, you may only get 5 amps charge, the extra panels will still bring up the output to nearer or to max.The Q is how much extra can the 100/20 absorb safely.
Goldchaser1 said:
LCs are a total of 200, and my comment about struggling was due to the level of voltage drop, they were below 12V as the solar was under smoke filled sky for several days and I had no way to give them a 30A kick, it's this 30A kick that nobody had told me about until I read this thread!
Have checked out Solar4RVs website and they are the suppliers of the panels we have on the camper, from the website it's obvious they are big into this with a wide variety of stuff from a diverse range of suppliers.
Our build goal is to be able to go remote for upto a month, we can carry over 500l of water and 330l of diesel without any loose containers, so it's all about food management, thus the 3 fridge setup, maybe we've been looking at things from the wrong end
If we have to add extra batteries, will need to assess carefully, I do have a location which will take another pair. If we do go that way I think it will have to be deep cycle as trying to charge 4 x LCs at 30A each boggles the mind. Don't even think I can fit them into the camper as the Redarc management (BMS1230S2) will only go to 30A and from the comments here I'm going to need 60A! These LC batteries may be great but I see this charge requirement as being a major headache!
So where to go, 4 x deep cycle... possible? Xtra solar...also quite feasible, charging and managing... 1 solar system and 1 alternator (what size) split 2 ways or a single manager???? My head's spinning :8
