Appalling Crimes

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OldGT said:
Im not intending to be controversial but the rule of law and due process is still the best system weve got.

I often hear so many suggestions about sentencing, substance abuse, gun control, immigration and my favourite, the good old days.

Many appaling acts existed long before today, some were never prosecuted.

Thats not to say more cant be done collectively, but i just cant fanthom this outsourcing of problems and safety to the government dialogue I hear so often.

I dont pretend to know the answers to all societies issues but I can reconcile my thoughts on crime with 3 facts.

Humans are generally violent as a species and substance abuse exacerbates the issue.

Crime tends to increase in economic downturns and poor areas.

Most of the population is very unlikely to be a victim of a violent crime statistically speaking. You are more likely to be killed in a motor vehicle accident, and more likely to be injured at work. The point is assuming safe conduct in our day to day lives always carries some risk.
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Without commenting on the rest of your words, during many years as a safety office in a Melbourne office, I collected statistics regarding absenteeism due to accidents and the like rather than illness. Over 90% of the away time was not due to work, vehicles, or crime, but was due to sporting or home based injuries.
 
Not to cast any doubt on your figure but to clarify 563,000 people were injured at work in 2017/18 FY period. Certainly far more than being injured as a victim of all crimes combined in the same period.

It could be argued that being a victim of homicide is more likely than being killed at work (about 3.5 times more likely) but driving a vehicle is most certainly more fatal than being a victim of homicide.

I only put this up to give some perspective on the likelyhood of being randomly attacked by an unknown assailant resulting in injury or death.

Ive attempted to stay out of the emotive disscussion, lest Im lead down the path of my own choosing that results perceived political speech.

That said every perpetrator should in theory have a right to a presumption of innocence, due process, a fair trial if they plead not guilty, and if found guilty or provided a plea of guilty, a proper sentence imposed lawfully. If that is observed I reserve judgement on any crime, and/or the sentencing.

Criminality is complex, its very difficult to comment on from a laymans outside view.
 
LoneWolf said:
Unless you are one of their Victims... Then you take a very different view im afraid... :mad:

Please don't try to defend the Scum... Scum is Scum and nothing will change that Fact.. :|

LW....
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very true you could not of said it better
 
LoneWolf said:
Unless you are one of their Victims... Then you take a very different view im afraid... :mad:

Please don't try to defend the Scum... Scum is Scum and nothing will change that Fact.. :|

LW....
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Couldn't agree more :Y: I understand the legal process is a difficult one and comes with many challenges. Sentencing on the other hand is light for offenders in some circumstances and more often than not when it comes to repeat offenders unfortunately. Repeat Scum can't be rehabilitated that's the reason their repeat offenders, uncontrollable.
 
You only need to take a walk down the main street of Surfers Paradise on a Friday or Saturday night and see the spilt blood on the Streets... (im sure elsewhere too)
Hardly any of those Victims cant remember WTF happened never alone 'Reporting' what happened to them....

I think the real figures are not available as no-body actually knows the TRUE Numbers of Crime... :|

LW...
 
LoneWolf said:
Unless you are one of their Victims... Then you take a very different view im afraid... :mad:

Please don't try to defend the Scum... Scum is Scum and nothing will change that Fact.. :|

LW....
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Are you inferring my comments are some sort of defense on behalf of serious criminal offenders?

If so its far from the truth.

My personal conviction on this matter is firmly on the outer fringe (alt right), alas we have the system we have in dealing out the punishment terms we have. I do however wholeheartedly support the rule of law, despite the attempts of various bodies to erode the rule of law, and erode due process. If asked to decide between seemingly light sentences or lawful but nontraditional detainment without due process, then my focus is on the latter.

So many instances in the last few years of states attempting to ratify and impose laws which enable detainment without due process to occur.

Still the focus falls on parole violations, circumstances around crimes, draconian measures to curtail crime, repeat offenders and immigration. These are mere distractions whilst real rights are being attacked and dismantled. I can only submit this as evidence that the mainstream media and governance are doing a suburb job of hijacking and distracting the attention of state and Federal citizens. Not enough tough questions are asked when shown all these reports and images, after all what could be the intent if not this?

And any time really crucial events occur 2 things will happen.

You wont hear any real details, or,

The mainstream will feed you a story not based on fact, but agenda, usually using an emotive base.

Being reasonable about it, everytime you get drawn in with one dominate emotion about a news report best to ask yourself why that is.
 
No im not referring to serious criminal offenders.... Im referring to ALL criminal Offenders.... 10yo to 90yo.... You do Adult Crime you should do Adult time....
Like the fellow done for rape 2 times before and on his last count today, was sentenced to 2yrs ... Should have been 25yrs or never be released... EVER....

THINK ABOUT HIS VICTIMS.... Their sentence is LIFE.... :mad:

As I said again... ONCE YOU ARE A VICTIM, YOU TAKE ON A DIFFERENT 'OUTLOOK'... You need to get in the real world... IMO..
Yes media has caused some things, but take the blinkers off and HAVE a look at the real world... Spend a few days in an A&E at a large hospital on a Friday or Saturday night and you see the REAL World... and what a wonderful world it is...

I have 'Friends' in uniform and hear about 'the real world' every time I see them... So yes im informed ..... With-out Media or Do-gooders telling me 'How' I should feel.. :|

I chose to Earn, not Learn, so I have great difficulty 'understanding' what you actually mean... :zzz:

LW....
 
For the sake of progressing the discussion let me clear up a few things .

Victims of crime should be treated with dignity and respect, and given the most respectful treatment when they are caught in circumstances they did not create.

I cannot find the case you speak of (great if you could provide a link) but again due process was observed. Serious crimes are heard by a jury, there exists no court case for serious crimes that is heard without a jury. Fair to say all relevant details must have been examined for the judge to hear before imposing a sentence after finding a defendant guilty.

Also I would agree though, crimes of this nature in my opinion should result in capital punishment for serious repeat offenders of the same crime ideally, but its not the case here anywhere in this country.

As to your point about all offenders being held accountable, I agree, its called the rule of law, it already exists. Far from perfect but thank goodness its there.

But where this all gets murky is the actual laws that exist. There be no contesting most serious criminal offences, but there are always some ridiculous laws that have and still exist.

Pretty sure everyone has operated outside if the law at some point, thats why Im trying to say we need to caution ourselves on getting to the point we say lockem all up.

Its complex, and each situation has its own differences. Lets say we lock up a guy who repeatedly bashed his spouse. Not many would argue imprisonment is the right option. But then we need to understand youve locked him up with others concicted of violent crimes for a number of years without really addressing what triggers his violent behavior. All of a sudden he reaches the end of his sentence and released back into the public. Seems short sighted. I dont have the proper answrrs, Im just saying longer sentences arent the magic bullet.
 
We need to start looking at a 'Zero Tolerance' Policy... Like in the USA... Felony Crime gets the Time... Each crime after that gets more time...

That 'Scum' was on A Currant Affair last night... Not the news... My bad... I blame the Missus as she called me in to watch it half way through and filled me in 'in her words'...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysUVF5ffNpo

LW...
 
I've always thought the judiciary have a penchant for handing out only minimal sentences.
Instead, all convicted criminals should be given the maximum sentence under the law.
THEN the onus is on their defense attorney to convince a judge of extenuating circumstances that might be applied to lower a sentence.
This seems to me to be the only proper way to sentence criminals.
 
Yes it seems the only thing going on is the cv19 stuff
Nothing else seems to matter
Life as we know it does go on
 
Another Rainy Day.
Link Below . This Story Will upset some readers. Read at Own Will be Warned.
Why i posted this `i` Slept in the room below unknown to me what had taken place previously.
The Lady friend i was visiting was renting this room below.
I`ve known her for many years as she was a previous girl friend.
She did tell me that someone had died there recently.
On awaking in This Room the next morning `i` told her i had a Really Bad Dream.
She then told me The Full Story.
F`me.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/murderer-tried-to-frame-his-own-brother-20121217-2bizh.html
 
Chiron52 said:
I've always thought the judiciary have a penchant for handing out only minimal sentences.
Instead, all convicted criminals should be given the maximum sentence under the law.
THEN the onus is on their defense attorney to convince a judge of extenuating circumstances that might be applied to lower a sentence.
This seems to me to be the only proper way to sentence criminals.
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People make a lot of assumptions about sentencing - here are actual figures to base any solution on

(1) The Australian imprisonment rate exceeds other Western countries except USA (where things have long been out of control)

1610056103_imprisonment_rates.jpg


(2) Far from becoming more lenient, judges have been increasingly giving people gaol terms (about 35% more over the last 10 years)

1610056139_imprisonment_rates2.jpg


Each prisoner costs about $100,000 per year, closer to $200,000 per year for a juvenile.
 
One reason it fell out of favour was "Gross and his colleagues calculated a 4.1 percent error rate among people who are sentenced to death". With over 16,000 murder convictions per year in the USA, that would be 640 wrongfully executed each year. While one could argue the figures, it still is significant.

We tend to scoff a bit at people trying to convert criminals and who study causes etc. However Germanys murder rate stood at 0.8, compared to 4.7 in the United States. So a valid question is why are people six times more likely to murder each other in the USA? Or why 25% of prison inmates in Australia are aboriginal when they are just over 2% of the population (yet more than 50% are in prison for the serious crimes like GBH, murder and rape, it is not just trivial charges). Please don't give answers as to why you think, these are simply facts that show reasons do need to be looked at in terms of preventing crime.

I don't want violent people walking the streets any more than anyone else - but these are things that need looking at.
 
One reason capital punishment was abolished in the UK was cases where the wrong person was hung. An example was the case of Evans, who was convicted of murders later admitted by John Christie, partially on the basis of Christie's evidence in Evans' trial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Christie_(murderer)

In the US there many cases of death row inmates being subsequently cleared, often on the basis of DNA technology that did not exist when they were convicted, often on the basis of unreliable eye-witness or forensic evidence.

"As of November 2019, 367 people previously convicted of serious crimes in the United States had been exonerated by DNA testing since 1989, 21 of whom had been sentenced to death."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_Project

In some of those cases, dodgy profiles prepared by the FBI were involved. I once reviewed a number of such cases and found that profiles had been associated with serious miscarriages of justice. I could find no examples where profiling was an important factor in solving a case.

"A review of the development of criminal profiling demonstrates that profiling has never been a scientific process. It is essentially based on a compendium of common sense intuitions and faulty theoretical assumptions, and in practice appears to consist of little more than educated guesses and wishful thinking. While it is very difficult to find cases where profiling made a critical contribution to an investigation, there exist a number of cases where a profile, combined with investigative and prosecutorial enthusiasm, derailed the investigation and even contributed to serious miscarriages of justice. As a result, police agencies should carefully consider whether the development of in-house profiling capability, or use of external consultants to provide such services, is justified."

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1043986210377108
 

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