I intend staying with NAPFA because they are approaching this and other issues in a professional manner
ray :clap: :clap:
ower:
ray :clap: :clap:
ower:
Action Thread about HighBanking in NSW
- Thread starter HeadsUp
- Start date
Help Support Prospecting Australia:
user 14190
Too old to care anyway.
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2018
- Messages
- 837
- Reaction score
- 3,625
I know I am a little slow, but it looks to me when I read the heading on the NAPFA web site that it applies to NSW & ACT only and while it may be of some assistance in other states it is from what I read NSW and ACT only.
The NSW and ACT Prospectors and Fossickers Association Inc (NAPFA) was formed in December 2012 to improve fossicking access to public land on behalf of all prospectors and fossickers in NSW.
NAPFA Fights for fairer access to land in NSW and represents the interests of prospectors and fossickers
It seems to me that fossickers and detectorists in each State are trying to fight the loss of prospecting rights across Australia with no co-ordination and no real organisation between States. I know that Victoria has plans to close numerous areas, but we never found out about it until after the period for submissions had closed. If there is going to be some sort of achievement it has to be on an Australia wide basis with sufficient members to align with another party as mudgee hunter said in post #106. We are only going to achieve through numbers Australia wide when deals can be done through our honest and above board Politicians both Federal and State. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Graham
The NSW and ACT Prospectors and Fossickers Association Inc (NAPFA) was formed in December 2012 to improve fossicking access to public land on behalf of all prospectors and fossickers in NSW.
NAPFA Fights for fairer access to land in NSW and represents the interests of prospectors and fossickers
It seems to me that fossickers and detectorists in each State are trying to fight the loss of prospecting rights across Australia with no co-ordination and no real organisation between States. I know that Victoria has plans to close numerous areas, but we never found out about it until after the period for submissions had closed. If there is going to be some sort of achievement it has to be on an Australia wide basis with sufficient members to align with another party as mudgee hunter said in post #106. We are only going to achieve through numbers Australia wide when deals can be done through our honest and above board Politicians both Federal and State. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Graham
2lateagain raises a great point about a co-ordinated national approach to representing fossickers in all states.
Cases in point:
MAAA (Model Aeronatical Association of Australia) is a national federated body of RC aircraft flyers with state level organisations that deals with the heavily regulated CASA as well as state and local government.
SSAA (Sporting Shooters ) is a national federated body with state level organisations that deals with Govt and the heavily regulated Police and Weapons Licencing units in each state.
CMCA Caravan and Motorhome and Campers Assoc ) is also national with state and district level chapters that lobby and deal with RV issues that seem different and restrictive at state and local government level. Their model of proving the economic value of grey nomads is something NAPFA and others should consider to prove the economic and tourist value of fossicking
PA members will no doubt argue that there are 'national gun laws'..so it's easier, etc..almost true.... but tell that to a registered firearm owner who travels to WA (where gun laws are different to anywhere else in OZ).
PMAV and NAPFA will likely argue that their "state's issues' are unique..true... but that is becoming less true as state governments continue remove fossickable land and change the rules governing our hobby... what we can do, when where and how.
Point is a national body will get far more traction than state level bodies...membership base is bigger...revenue stream is bigger...campaigns can be run at any level: national, state or local.
Current state level organisations dont really count with government...they have small membership base, no political voice, limited funds and are run by volunteers.
How hard would it be for the state level existing organisations to seek the views of their members to consider federating and if their members agree...then moving to a quick clean and efficient federated organisation representing fossickers in all States and Territories. Yes that would take time and effort...but it could give us all a bigger voice.
Cases in point:
MAAA (Model Aeronatical Association of Australia) is a national federated body of RC aircraft flyers with state level organisations that deals with the heavily regulated CASA as well as state and local government.
SSAA (Sporting Shooters ) is a national federated body with state level organisations that deals with Govt and the heavily regulated Police and Weapons Licencing units in each state.
CMCA Caravan and Motorhome and Campers Assoc ) is also national with state and district level chapters that lobby and deal with RV issues that seem different and restrictive at state and local government level. Their model of proving the economic value of grey nomads is something NAPFA and others should consider to prove the economic and tourist value of fossicking
PA members will no doubt argue that there are 'national gun laws'..so it's easier, etc..almost true.... but tell that to a registered firearm owner who travels to WA (where gun laws are different to anywhere else in OZ).
PMAV and NAPFA will likely argue that their "state's issues' are unique..true... but that is becoming less true as state governments continue remove fossickable land and change the rules governing our hobby... what we can do, when where and how.
Point is a national body will get far more traction than state level bodies...membership base is bigger...revenue stream is bigger...campaigns can be run at any level: national, state or local.
Current state level organisations dont really count with government...they have small membership base, no political voice, limited funds and are run by volunteers.
How hard would it be for the state level existing organisations to seek the views of their members to consider federating and if their members agree...then moving to a quick clean and efficient federated organisation representing fossickers in all States and Territories. Yes that would take time and effort...but it could give us all a bigger voice.
user 14190
Too old to care anyway.
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2018
- Messages
- 837
- Reaction score
- 3,625
The post by MikeB05 is my point, we have in PA people who collect all kinds of items, be it gold, gems or relics, I notice that Gilly47 is a member of QSMA which is a separate club for Sapphire Miners in Queensland, there are numerous small Lapidary Clubs, Opal miners also who I understand are having more restrictions placed upon them, each of these clubs are fighting to keep what little area that they can fossick/prospect in while the people in power make decisions based on number of people who complain about how feral animals should be left alone and not harmed, farmers should not be able to carry on their farming activities without more strict rules on what they can and cannot do, and people looking for gold or gems disturbing the ecology, the list goes on and on where our rights have been curtailed and in a lot of cases we are the last to know and as stated by Marksman the definition can be up to the individual Ranger or Officer as to their interpretation of the rules.
This is just my opinion, I am now at an age where is a couple more years I will be too old to do much more detecting and digging holes and the distance to Victoria seems to get longer each trip, but we both enjoy the hunt, even is we come away with nothing, we love being in the bush, this is why we live on 5 acres surrounded by trees and associated animals (possums are sort of included), the name of NAPFA is good, in my opinion it just needs to be along the lines of National Australian Prospectors Fossickers Association and no I am not going to be the one to try and get something like this going, but I feel that the present Committee have done a good job, but lack the bite that is now needed to get the attention of the ears of those that count nowadays. O O O I am not trying to stand on anyone's toes in this matter, just like to see matters not get any worse.
Graham
This is just my opinion, I am now at an age where is a couple more years I will be too old to do much more detecting and digging holes and the distance to Victoria seems to get longer each trip, but we both enjoy the hunt, even is we come away with nothing, we love being in the bush, this is why we live on 5 acres surrounded by trees and associated animals (possums are sort of included), the name of NAPFA is good, in my opinion it just needs to be along the lines of National Australian Prospectors Fossickers Association and no I am not going to be the one to try and get something like this going, but I feel that the present Committee have done a good job, but lack the bite that is now needed to get the attention of the ears of those that count nowadays. O
O O I am not trying to stand on anyone's toes in this matter, just like to see matters not get any worse.Graham
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2018
- Messages
- 1,779
- Reaction score
- 3,941
Once again MikeBs ideas have merit. I work for a pest control company and my boss is heavily involved in their association at a state and national level he was the President and Chairman of the board for years, and I was involved through his involvement to see how the association worked.
The association has state branches and the national headquarters, and the national board has a representative from each of the state branches on the committee, so each of the states are represented and their individual issues considered and acted upon at the national level.
Previously, their reputation was of a bunch of dodgy cowboys out there scamming people particularly with termite work and the association has done a lot of work to change the governments and peoples perception of them, and as a result, the pest control industry has become a legitimate and organised industry. This has become even more important, as high compliance and new Standards have been enforced, particularly in the food and logistics industries, that must have a pest control program in place at their facilities or they will fail their Quality audits.
The industry had a problem with these auditors, all saying different things had to be done, which was frustrating to pest control companies, so the association put together working parties and created industry Codes of Practice, that the Australian Pest Control Industry stands by in their pest management programs, and holds them up to the auditors and say this is our industry standard youre wrong! They created The Code of Practice for Pest Management in the Food Industry in Australia and New Zealand, including the New Zealand Pest Control Industry in the Code, with a NZ association's representative on the working party. And that Code of Practice was taken to the Federation of Asian and Oceania Pest Managers Associations conference, and has now been adopted by other countries as well, and the Australian association gained a lot of credit as an industry leader with their contribution to standardise and legitimize the pest control industrys practices. (That you bet they now tell the government!).
I know prospecting is only considered a hobby to many people, and they dont want it to be regulated because its just a fun hobby to them but in Victoria alone, our hobby is mentioned in no less than 17 government Acts and their accompanying Regulations! 17 government departments include it in their Acts - a recreational hobby!!
And right now, were being led by them and they all have a different perception of what we actually do or have no idea at all! Such as Jenny OConnor, for example, who was voting in government on something of which she had no idea!
I think the question to ask there is, Why did she have no idea?
Its because the association has not produced an official Code of Practice for Recreational Prospecting and Fossicking in Australia. With this document, the association and prospectors can hold it up and say, This is what we do these are the procedures - these are the regulations we follow these are the things that we know are illegal and these are the fines we know will be incurred for breeching government laws and regulations. And with that, they might see that were not a bunch of yahoos out there destroying the environment, with no idea about the laws covering prospecting. And maybe even say, Oh OK, I didnt realise that theyre that organised and self-regulated, and actually have their own association! Who knew?!! Not enough people in government do, and thats half our problem with them riding rough-shod over us! We need to regulate our hobby in an official manner, that the government can reference.
This Code of Practice could be sent to everyone in the government departments that legislate over prospecting and give our hobby some legitimate organisation and procedures, so the pollies cant just say, Theyre out there destroying the environment with water cannons and bulldozers!! Right now, where does it say that we dont do that, and have something to say, BS! This is what we do!?
If were going to have an association to have one voice for all prospectors they need to work in an official way that the government loves and understands. We need to have our side put out there, in a united front, and stop letting them lead us, thinking we wont say anything were just a bunch of yahoo hobbyists! We need to tell them in an official document, This is what were doing and how we do it, and we know were regulated by many government departments! Were not oblivious idiots out there destroying the environment, as they seem to think we are!
Why do they think that though? What have we done to change their perception? Take a few pollies out prospecting to show them what we do? Send letters to departments complaining after the fact? Its not enough and thats still working in the hobbyist mindset too we need to think bigger and smarter, to play the governments game, and become more legitimate and official in their eyes.
A national association can produce a national Australian Code of Practice that can be broken down into the States and Territories sections, because they are all different, and its easier to work with one document, instead of one for each State or Territory. Each section can be produced and overseen by the State branches. But nationally, we are many voices to be heard and considered!
With this in mind, I put together an example of what we could start working with, for Victorias section, in this case All could work with this format, or add special sections that apply to them, but I think this covers the most important and relevant points that should be included in it.
The aims of this Code of Practice are to:
1) Complement the Mineral Resources (Sustainable Development) Act 1990 in regard to prospecting.
2) Establish and maintain a guide or reference which provides a level of tangible prescriptive
information with a view to creating uniformity and consistency regarding recreational prospecting.
3) Provide a source of reliable information to Recreational Prospectors and relevant stakeholders for them to better understand their decisions and needs.
4) Define Recreational Prospecting.
5) Outline relevant legislation and regulations in Victoria.
6) Create a reliable guide for interstate and international prospectors coming to Victoria.
7) Concisely outline permitted and banned areas for recreational prospecting.
8) Describe permissible methods and processes of recreational prospecting.
9) Provide information on hazards and health & safety requirements.
10) Explain processes for environmental protection while prospecting.
11) Explain penalties for breeching relevant Victorian legislation and regulations.
12) Provide information for dispute resolution.
13) Provide relevant contacts for further information.
What do we think, fellow prospectors?
Cheers,
Megsy
The association has state branches and the national headquarters, and the national board has a representative from each of the state branches on the committee, so each of the states are represented and their individual issues considered and acted upon at the national level.
Previously, their reputation was of a bunch of dodgy cowboys out there scamming people particularly with termite work and the association has done a lot of work to change the governments and peoples perception of them, and as a result, the pest control industry has become a legitimate and organised industry. This has become even more important, as high compliance and new Standards have been enforced, particularly in the food and logistics industries, that must have a pest control program in place at their facilities or they will fail their Quality audits.
The industry had a problem with these auditors, all saying different things had to be done, which was frustrating to pest control companies, so the association put together working parties and created industry Codes of Practice, that the Australian Pest Control Industry stands by in their pest management programs, and holds them up to the auditors and say this is our industry standard youre wrong! They created The Code of Practice for Pest Management in the Food Industry in Australia and New Zealand, including the New Zealand Pest Control Industry in the Code, with a NZ association's representative on the working party. And that Code of Practice was taken to the Federation of Asian and Oceania Pest Managers Associations conference, and has now been adopted by other countries as well, and the Australian association gained a lot of credit as an industry leader with their contribution to standardise and legitimize the pest control industrys practices. (That you bet they now tell the government!).
I know prospecting is only considered a hobby to many people, and they dont want it to be regulated because its just a fun hobby to them but in Victoria alone, our hobby is mentioned in no less than 17 government Acts and their accompanying Regulations! 17 government departments include it in their Acts - a recreational hobby!!
And right now, were being led by them and they all have a different perception of what we actually do or have no idea at all! Such as Jenny OConnor, for example, who was voting in government on something of which she had no idea!
I think the question to ask there is, Why did she have no idea?
Its because the association has not produced an official Code of Practice for Recreational Prospecting and Fossicking in Australia. With this document, the association and prospectors can hold it up and say, This is what we do these are the procedures - these are the regulations we follow these are the things that we know are illegal and these are the fines we know will be incurred for breeching government laws and regulations. And with that, they might see that were not a bunch of yahoos out there destroying the environment, with no idea about the laws covering prospecting. And maybe even say, Oh OK, I didnt realise that theyre that organised and self-regulated, and actually have their own association! Who knew?!! Not enough people in government do, and thats half our problem with them riding rough-shod over us! We need to regulate our hobby in an official manner, that the government can reference.
This Code of Practice could be sent to everyone in the government departments that legislate over prospecting and give our hobby some legitimate organisation and procedures, so the pollies cant just say, Theyre out there destroying the environment with water cannons and bulldozers!! Right now, where does it say that we dont do that, and have something to say, BS! This is what we do!?
If were going to have an association to have one voice for all prospectors they need to work in an official way that the government loves and understands. We need to have our side put out there, in a united front, and stop letting them lead us, thinking we wont say anything were just a bunch of yahoo hobbyists! We need to tell them in an official document, This is what were doing and how we do it, and we know were regulated by many government departments! Were not oblivious idiots out there destroying the environment, as they seem to think we are!
Why do they think that though? What have we done to change their perception? Take a few pollies out prospecting to show them what we do? Send letters to departments complaining after the fact? Its not enough and thats still working in the hobbyist mindset too we need to think bigger and smarter, to play the governments game, and become more legitimate and official in their eyes.
A national association can produce a national Australian Code of Practice that can be broken down into the States and Territories sections, because they are all different, and its easier to work with one document, instead of one for each State or Territory. Each section can be produced and overseen by the State branches. But nationally, we are many voices to be heard and considered!
With this in mind, I put together an example of what we could start working with, for Victorias section, in this case All could work with this format, or add special sections that apply to them, but I think this covers the most important and relevant points that should be included in it.
The aims of this Code of Practice are to:
1) Complement the Mineral Resources (Sustainable Development) Act 1990 in regard to prospecting.
2) Establish and maintain a guide or reference which provides a level of tangible prescriptive
information with a view to creating uniformity and consistency regarding recreational prospecting.
3) Provide a source of reliable information to Recreational Prospectors and relevant stakeholders for them to better understand their decisions and needs.
4) Define Recreational Prospecting.
5) Outline relevant legislation and regulations in Victoria.
6) Create a reliable guide for interstate and international prospectors coming to Victoria.
7) Concisely outline permitted and banned areas for recreational prospecting.
8) Describe permissible methods and processes of recreational prospecting.
9) Provide information on hazards and health & safety requirements.
10) Explain processes for environmental protection while prospecting.
11) Explain penalties for breeching relevant Victorian legislation and regulations.
12) Provide information for dispute resolution.
13) Provide relevant contacts for further information.
What do we think, fellow prospectors?
Cheers,
Megsy
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2016
- Messages
- 7,954
- Reaction score
- 16,055
Well said Megsy :Y: definitely has merit and might I add the most well thought out post I've read on the subject in a long time no matter what state regulation started the discussion. If it does get legs Megsy how are you positioned to assist, you've obviously been well schooled through previous experience by the sounds of it. If a state or national body chances on your ability and expertise I'm sure there will be gains for small scale minors and prospectors alike. Thank for sharing your knowledge on the subject of enlightening bureaucrats :clap: :clap: :beer:
Goldtarget
(AKA OldGT)
Im all for it, the benefits would definitely outweigh any complexity. One Membership fee per year, one point of contact, credit for one states activities (such as the pmav bush cleanups) for the public national image, one stop shop for information on other states, pooling of time and resources.
The list of advantages is endless.
The list of advantages is endless.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2018
- Messages
- 1,779
- Reaction score
- 3,941
Thanks RM. I know when I posted this, that I'd be throwing my two bob's worth into a situation that I probably shouldn't just chuck in and then walk away from it!
So yes, I'll put my hand up to assist with creating a Code of Practice, because I do have experience with the creation of the Code of Practice I mentioned, sitting in on the working party's meetings. It was slow and took time to create with all the consultation involved, but in the end, well worthwhile, which is why I mentioned it.
The beauty of this forum, is the wealth of knowledge about this subject with the members, and I reckon we could actually produce one here, with input from everyone.
For example, I don't do detecting, so I'd be useless doing that section - but there are many here who have been doing it for years and could put that together.
I have no idea of the laws in other states, but others do. A joint effort could put this together, rather than one person trying to do it.
A co-ordinator and state mediators are definitely required to put it all together, and to keep it on track and moving forward, rather than getting bogged down with popcorn eating sessions taking over with conflicting opinions and turning into aoop: fight. (And believe me, I heard some of them with the one I worked on!).
I think one thing we shouldn't do, is include small scale mining with recreational prospecting. That would add a lot of stuff that complicates it, and I believe it will have enough pages as it is with each state/territory being different. We don't want to produce a telephone book - but something that's easily read and referenced.
In an ideal world, a national code of practice could work towards 'standardising' recreational prospecting nationally, so each state isn't different. But with places like WA & Qld & NT with leases etc, that's probably not possible in the long run. Perhaps the other eastern states and SA and Tas could work towards it - eventually... But that's jumping way ahead! We should try to get this one done first!
Cheers,
Megsy
So yes, I'll put my hand up to assist with creating a Code of Practice, because I do have experience with the creation of the Code of Practice I mentioned, sitting in on the working party's meetings. It was slow and took time to create with all the consultation involved, but in the end, well worthwhile, which is why I mentioned it.
The beauty of this forum, is the wealth of knowledge about this subject with the members, and I reckon we could actually produce one here, with input from everyone.
For example, I don't do detecting, so I'd be useless doing that section - but there are many here who have been doing it for years and could put that together.
I have no idea of the laws in other states, but others do. A joint effort could put this together, rather than one person trying to do it.
A co-ordinator and state mediators are definitely required to put it all together, and to keep it on track and moving forward, rather than getting bogged down with popcorn eating sessions taking over with conflicting opinions and turning into a
oop: fight. (And believe me, I heard some of them with the one I worked on!).I think one thing we shouldn't do, is include small scale mining with recreational prospecting. That would add a lot of stuff that complicates it, and I believe it will have enough pages as it is with each state/territory being different. We don't want to produce a telephone book - but something that's easily read and referenced.
In an ideal world, a national code of practice could work towards 'standardising' recreational prospecting nationally, so each state isn't different. But with places like WA & Qld & NT with leases etc, that's probably not possible in the long run. Perhaps the other eastern states and SA and Tas could work towards it - eventually... But that's jumping way ahead! We should try to get this one done first!
Cheers,
Megsy
These are my comments and as such will only be adhered to.
Any crap comments will be deleted...
I hear you all on a National aproach and I looked into it a few years ago.
Not very possible as each State has it's laws and by-laws making it pretty
near impossible to carry out.
Might be an idea if this was started in another thread people.
And Thanks to All for commenting. :Y: :Y:
We us Mods cannot "Split" post's out to another thread. It will crash the forum. :8 :8
Any crap comments will be deleted...
I hear you all on a National aproach and I looked into it a few years ago.
Not very possible as each State has it's laws and by-laws making it pretty
near impossible to carry out.
Might be an idea if this was started in another thread people.
And Thanks to All for commenting. :Y: :Y:
We us Mods cannot "Split" post's out to another thread. It will crash the forum. :8 :8
G
Guest
So I'm struggling to understand why I can still use my highbanker and shovel.
Their issue is how I get the water to it.
I could set up a chain of people with buckets and process the gravel in the hopper.
I could design a gravity fed system like Marksman is designing.
I could piss into it.
The end result is disturbance and tailings that need remediation when finished.
Why is the water pump the demon? I get that it's powered. But that doesn't answer my question.
What possible environmental harm does the water pump do compared to other water feed methods?
Bankers are ok, just not fed with water pump water. Surely water it water no matter where and how it is delivered to the banker?
Love to know their logic.
Their issue is how I get the water to it.
I could set up a chain of people with buckets and process the gravel in the hopper.
I could design a gravity fed system like Marksman is designing.
I could piss into it.
The end result is disturbance and tailings that need remediation when finished.
Why is the water pump the demon? I get that it's powered. But that doesn't answer my question.
What possible environmental harm does the water pump do compared to other water feed methods?
Bankers are ok, just not fed with water pump water. Surely water it water no matter where and how it is delivered to the banker?
Love to know their logic.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2016
- Messages
- 5,694
- Reaction score
- 10,424
Hand tools are not filled with fuel, oil, grease, battery acid etc etc.Retirement Stone said:
They don't want the creeks polluted. Also a couple of blokes using highbankers, can and do change the landscape.(Contrary to some members belief).Have you ever seen someone refill their highbanker holes.lol. :lol: :lol: One person can move alot of dirt in 5hrs.Cant imagine what half a dozen would do.
They want you to process gravels as slow as possible so you have minimal impact on the environment. River sluice will be next on the chopping block.
Also here in Qld Marksmans idea was tried years ago and we were told by mines department it was illegal as it could easily be turned into a gravity dredge.
Welcome to QLD prospecting laws.Everyone will look for grey areas in the rules but ya just flogging a dead horse.If you want to continue as before you need to become outlaw prospectors. Good luck.
G
Guest
Just have to make a big kick arse river sluice 1 metre wide with a 1 metre slick plate and plastic rake the pay dirt through???
Our kids kids will live inside in the digital world. We are almost there now.
And yet when theres money involved for government s, go and dig the biggest holes on Earth, screw the environment.
As far as damage goes. Any Creek/river that gets a flood event restores all sins from bankers. Except for dickheads that destroy the banks.
How bout target them, not the majority.
Rant over and out!
RS
Our kids kids will live inside in the digital world. We are almost there now.
And yet when theres money involved for government s, go and dig the biggest holes on Earth, screw the environment.
As far as damage goes. Any Creek/river that gets a flood event restores all sins from bankers. Except for dickheads that destroy the banks.
How bout target them, not the majority.
Rant over and out!
RS
Smoky bandit said:
Firstly even if holes are left , the first flood and the holes gone.
Secondly there are already limits in place as to the amount of ground that can be processed, how about enforcing the current rules ?
A bit like you can only use bait because lures MAY enable you to catch more then the limit of fish.. or cant drive bigger then a 100cc car because you MAY go over the speed limit .
That's all just BS they use as an excuse, just like turbidity.
On a side note , I've written to the Minister Matt Kean several weeks ago but zero reply.... Kean by name but not very Keen by nature. His name and reputation is on the line due to people that werent even elected which appears at present to be an issue with the current Liberal government across all portfolios, but particularly under the current climate with drought ,bushfires and now Corona he still refuses to grow a pair and do what's right and stand up to a handful of self entitled greens that are acting out of line using lies and uneducated information just for their own egotistical feel good agendas.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/it-s-time-to-win-climate-wars-nsw-environment-minister-matt-kean-says
So he is actually a green lefty!! No wonder he is behind this BS.
So he is actually a green lefty!! No wonder he is behind this BS.
Goldtarget
(AKA OldGT)
These threads and the forum rules make replying hard. So not only is modern pc culture making it very difficult we have already gagged ourselves here.
All I can say and Im probably very close to the wind in saying it, is you (we all) need to examine the factions in state and federal elects to see what is what. Im sure youll be surprised with what you find, and its not pleasant or immediately apparent.
By moving the central line for the last 2 decades we find ourselves here.
Sorry to talk in riddles but Ill for sure get booted if I make it black and white.
Now where is my book that details the account of the Trojan horse....must be around here somewhere.
All I can say and Im probably very close to the wind in saying it, is you (we all) need to examine the factions in state and federal elects to see what is what. Im sure youll be surprised with what you find, and its not pleasant or immediately apparent.
By moving the central line for the last 2 decades we find ourselves here.
Sorry to talk in riddles but Ill for sure get booted if I make it black and white.
Now where is my book that details the account of the Trojan horse....must be around here somewhere.
Hi folks, not trying to raise false hopes here, but I have an idea to throw up for consideration.
As it is reasonably clear that power operated Walbankers and other highbankers are no longer permissible in NSW, what about using the non powered hydraulic ram pumps to pump the water into the banker? The technology has been around for over 40 years and has been further refined by some over those years.
As I understand it, all you need is water in the watercourse, a fall of between 0.6 metres to 1.6 metres from the water inlet to the non powered ram pump an you have an everlasting flow of water. Not sure whether the water pressure would be sufficient to run the Walbanker but might be worth looking into.
Heaps of other advantages with this approach, apart from being legal, lighter to carry, noiseless, at least half the cost of a petrol powered water pump, no fuel to carry, no fuel running costs, no running costs apart from replacing a low cost diaphram once in a blue moon, and should pretty well last forever......
Just a thought
Regards Ron :idea:
As it is reasonably clear that power operated Walbankers and other highbankers are no longer permissible in NSW, what about using the non powered hydraulic ram pumps to pump the water into the banker? The technology has been around for over 40 years and has been further refined by some over those years.
As I understand it, all you need is water in the watercourse, a fall of between 0.6 metres to 1.6 metres from the water inlet to the non powered ram pump an you have an everlasting flow of water. Not sure whether the water pressure would be sufficient to run the Walbanker but might be worth looking into.
Heaps of other advantages with this approach, apart from being legal, lighter to carry, noiseless, at least half the cost of a petrol powered water pump, no fuel to carry, no fuel running costs, no running costs apart from replacing a low cost diaphram once in a blue moon, and should pretty well last forever......
Just a thought
Regards Ron :idea:
