Action Thread about HighBanking in NSW

[nucopia]

Well said Mike
Target the NSW polies and make them aware they will be loosing votes if they dont listen and lobby to change the restrictions.
We also need to get connected to other bush groups on social media like the Dubbo prospecting club, Bush users united etc
Local business chambers in fossicking areas ,local tourism groups even the grey nomads..
We need a louder voice and that means more people making a noise

 

[Goldtarget]

I found the environmental report the NSW Government reffered to while drafting the outlawing of the use of highbankers. Suffice to say its pretty damning evidence of overwhelming environmental damage. Here are a couple of items I found below contained in the report.

Exibit A.Rare Nsw Bullshark that suffered from turbity and water silting as a direct result of highbanker discharge.

NSW Crocodile found in tailings pile, the distress of which has rendered him unable to move.

Damming of waterway for illegal pumping, and possibly used as rockwall dam for further sluicing.

Threatened Koala unable to cross River due to Highbanker discharge therefore leaving it stranded from its natural habitat.

Evidence of residency in natural area and turbity and silting of occupier offenders.

Access roads devastated by excavation and Highbanker discharge.

Livestock of local farmer being inundated by Highbanker discharge and suffering the effects of silting, debris, discharge and turbity.

I think you will agree its damning evidence against the use of Highbankers. After seeing this I have concluded that arriving at the decision to stop Highbankers makes perfect sense. This cant really be tolerated. Think of the environment.

Cheers.

 

[GaryO]

Sadly although you are being humorous that isnt far of the mark when it comes to the green beurocrates understanding of what we do. I remember a coment made by one of them years ago when all this started and they were claiming we WERE HYDRAULIC SLUICING ... blasting away the river banks !!!! .. so in between rdo's and stress leave they googled it and came up with stuff they did 150 ago... god help us.

 

[Rockhunter62]

I thought photo no.4 was one of your politicians sitting on the fence about the issue.

Cheers

Doug

 

[Poida]

It's all just a big pi$$ing contest between our state governments to see who can implement the strictest and most complicated laws and regulations.

 

[Goldtarget]

Sadly although you are being humorous that isnt far of the mark when it comes to the green beurocrates understanding of what we do. I remember a coment made by one of them years ago when all this started and they were claiming we WERE HYDRAULIC SLUICING ... blasting away the river banks !!!! .. so in between rdo's and stress leave they googled it and came up with stuff they did 150 ago... god help us.

That was Jenny O'Connor, now Mayor of Indigo Shire, back when she was a Greens candidate. The footage has long disappeared (might be able to be found though) but my memory of it is seared into my brain. Victoria at the time was facing some severe reforms that thankfully never materialized.

 

[CreviceSucker]

Sounds like there new brochure has cause severe mental distress and injury to our members.

I wonder if we have an obligation to report it on their incident hotline ?

start a class action for lost earnings and emotional trauma.

they can buy back our pump and highbanker with lost gold factored in at around $ 25,000 per unit.

There are only 40,000 wet prospectors in NSW , thats only a pissy billion in compensation.

They will make that much selling carbon credits over our crown land in a few years , i cant see a problem.

 

[CreviceSucker]

NAPFA were too pissweak on this.

They should have threatened them with a class action seeking compensation if highbankers / pumps were banned.

Lost opportunity.

:bomb:

They will ban all prospecting before long or make it illegal to own gold , next will be cashless society and extortionate negative interest rates.

Thats when the average joe will work out how much harm the criminals in suits have done and it wont surprise me if they start shooting them.

to no avail.

 

[Balmain Bob]

Totally agree with you CreviceSucker

NAPFA lost me 2 years ago after the AGM at Stuart Town when the majority of the members present voted for NAPFA to take the campaign to the media immediately before the State election. We were guaranteed at the meeting that the media packages were ready to be sent out within a week so that every member would be able to contact their local members about the issue as well as the minister .

GUESS WHAT , NOTHING HAPPENED.

When the pressed about why nothing is happening I was informed that " As NAPFA has secret information about the gov dept involved they have decided not to proceed with the action that we, as members, had voted for the organisation to proceed with.

They did this without consultation with the general members which is totally against the how an organisation like this should be run. There should have been an extraordinary meeting called so that the executive could try to explain why the hell they were going against the members wishes and another vote taken to see it the members agreed with their proposal. THIS DID NOT HAPPEN.

Now 2 years latter, nothing has happened, and we have the situation that we are now faced with.

Anyone who is stupid enough to pay money the this group might like to buy shares in a harbour bridge that I am selling.

 

[GaryO]

Balmain Bob , they did in fact have information, and it did play a very major part in delaying things this long.
But hey hindsight is always right ..yeah ?
Do you honestly think the guys elected at NAPFA who do this for absolutely nothing are perfect ?
They are just fossickers like you and I that put their hand up to try protect this hobby.
They work their very hardest to achieve the best for the majority but knowing full well they will only be recognized by a very small appreciative minority.

 

[Gilly47]

Well Gents I have to say that we need an association to represent us as lobbyists to the powers that be in Govt.

ray :gemstone: ower:

 

[GaryO]

Well Gents I have to say that we need an association to represent us as lobbyists to the powers that be in Govt.

ray :gemstone: ower:

And who would that be Ray?

 

[Gilly47]

SO lets get behind NAPFA and keep their efforts so far, intact. If NAPFA folds what happens to the paperwork, energies and monies already spent representing us.

There is a large amount of correspondence with government,and their departments, that need to be kept LIVE as the tide will certainly change with persistent lobbying on our behalf.

Reading the papers that have been presented to Government has given me confidence in the admin of NAPFA.

As a small group we need to approach these matters in a professional manner, as has been done so far.

ray

 

[Jemba]

Anyone who is stupid enough to pay money the this group might like to buy shares in a harbour bridge that I am selling.

I am sorry in reading the feelings and views of fellow site members in regards to NAPFA. I have seen what we lost and how fast we lost our rights in NSW without a lobby group to represent our interest. We as a collective should stand with our lobby group and support them in the best way we can. Not site back and when all is lost and gone say maybe I should have helped. A lobby group is only as strong as its membership base and that has been my whole point all along we need members. So Bob I see you have sold out on us, so can I ask what are your plans in regards to fixing this matter other than bridge building.

 

[Goldtarget]

NAPFA were too pissweak on this.

They should have threatened them with a class action seeking compensation if highbankers / pumps were banned.

Lost opportunity.

:bomb:

This is certainly at the limits of my legal knowledge and perhaps said flippantly, but I do wonder if this is possible?

Ive talked to some really informed and smart people during and since the proposed ban on sluicing here in Vic, and in relation to what the NSW changes, and havent come across any meaningful way to change/oppose the changes.

Lobby groups are probably the best ongoing solution to negotiate goid outcomes though.

Ive personally tried financial support to pmav, communication with sitting members, petition, and supplying submissions under review during consulative process, and it seems to me that at best it puts change makers on the back foot, and at worst, is disregarded entirely.

Other suggestions have included protest, political alignment and bigger lobby groups. Sadly theres no votes in prospecting is the conclusion Ive come to, as hard as it is to come to terms with.

I think that pooling resources for common ground to work under mining regulations controlled by a central body or a direct legal challenge to the law are the only two work arounds that may be of value, but both those options carry risk.

Note the fines. I find it strange that theres no scale, unless of course they are stackable. Can one commit mutiple offences? What I mean is, is it the same fine for using mobile plant loading a powered trommel in an illegal area as it is to be caught using an electric driven gold wheel in a designated fossiking area?

Or does the gold wheel guy just get a $750 fine and the excavator weilding trommel loader get multiple fines up to the maximum penalty?

And what evidence would be needed to impose this fine? :|

 

[mbasko]

Now 2 years latter, nothing has happened, and we have the situation that we are now faced with.

I wasn't at the Stuart Town meeting but do recall that originally it was decided to go on the attack. This changed & I also recall receiving communication from NAPFA on this explaining why. To me it made sense.
Members should have had ample opportunity to contact one of the committee if they were unhappy about this & likely some did? I don't know but I do know that as volunteers they try to do things in the best interests of the hobby. What they do won't always please everyone but they are trying.
Protests & ranting/raving won't win any friends here at the moment IMO. My feeling is the general public are over this type of approach & see it as an unwanted disruption. That approach could likely set us back further IMO. We'd lose support not gain it.

As for the situation we are now faced with?? The Resource Regulator is of the opinion that highbankers with powered pumps have been illegal since at least 2010. That hasn't changed in their eyes at all.
What has changed is they are being lobbied by Greens & the NSW Mineral Council (ironic considering they are usually opposed) to tighten regulations on us so have decided to take a stance on the issue over the last few years. The NSW Minerals Council have gotten their nose out of joint over the declaration of more Fossicking Districts over the last few years (thanks to NAPFA I might add) which they see as an erosion of their members (EL Holders) rights. They have a much louder voice than us unfortunately.
The Greens.... well they just want everyone to smell flowers or stay at home. They oppose everything. They too unfortunately have a much louder voice than us.

Encouraging people to move away from our only lobby group is counterproductive. What happens then?? A multitude of individuals all pulling in a thousand different directions achieving nothing but more moaning & bitching with no action. The Greens & other groups like the NSW Minerals Council would then have no opposition to their agendas & ride roughshod over us.
We need a united lobby organisation not a rabble. What happens may not always please everyone but it's the only way to be heard. Pollies & bureaucrats won't listen otherwise.
Want changes & input. Get on the committee & do something proactive about it! :Y:

 

[MikeB05]

There is lobbying and direct action. Lobbying of the type NAPFA has done has failed. Regretably, a lot of hard work by dedicated committee that has come to nothing

For a long time now NAPFA have asked their members to be patient...wait...don't approach members of parliament...keep one voice only, leave us to do the lobbying... etc.

NAPFA's confidence in 'sanity prevailing' was outstripped by the other side who exercise no sanity or logic in this matter.

NAPFA has all the evidence and submissions to make our case and probably don't need to spend any more time on that.

I don't want to sound critical of NAPFA without offering an alternative and I've done that in an earlier post in this thread.

Bear in mind that an individual politician holds the same ownership of a government decision as every other member of the government. Any politician who says I support you guys but wont act on that support is just hiding behind 'the government' shield.

Politicians wont care about us and our hobby until they have skin in the game

I am still of the view that targeting one or two sitting politicians and candidates for next state, local and federal elections is the best method of direct action. Applying focussed force on one politician and make his/her life uncomfortable and sends a message to the other pollies...who is next???

NAPFA don't need to wait for an election to be announced. They and their members can get the message out there now..."member XXX denies recreation use of land within his electorate".." electorate XXX being denied tourism activity and money that will flow from recreational fossicking"...etc.

 

[mbasko]

Note the fines.

The fines noted in the Guidelines are strange?
The Act just states max. 50 penalty units (1 penalty unit is $110 so x 50 = $5500). $750 fine doesn't even correlate correctly with a penalty unit of $110?
A dredger caught here locally last year was fined $2500 (Google illegal dredge Meroo River).
I would assume like other criminal offences you could be charged/fined for multiple offences not just one. You could also be fined under several different pieces of legislation depending on the offence too as we are also governed by EPA legislation, Native Title legislation, Water legislation, Crown Lands legislation etc. etc.

 

[Gem in I]

Have had a gutful of regulators wielding god-like powers over the last 2 years (sorry personal exp.)

Mikes post really hit a chord and a couple of others also feel they are not being heard I guess.( No you can not please everyone of course) but.

Addressing the oppositions agenda rather than headbutting can make small steps.

Is it possible for NAPFA to go in a direction of holding 1-2 day short courses for land rehab/conservation.
Chase for a certification approval or exeption that takes it somewhat out of the hands of the one for all deciders.

I know more expensive approach but if government can cover their arrrr..s with certification the haemorrhoids seem to lessen somewhat I have noticed.

 

[Goldtarget]

Cheers MBasko, posts like that explains it in a way everyone can relate to. I hadnt even thought about other acts. As always your information is concise and well measured. :Y:

Everytime these topics come up you can just feel the pushback sentiment rise up. It can feel a bit hopeless getting the shove to one side.

It can get a bit frustrating feeling like no progress is being made on a lobby front, but the reality is Im sure they are doing whatever they can to help out. Its well documented throughout the forum the forces and opposition we face and some of the logical steps that have yet to be taken to grow the influence of prospectors.

With the most recent development the energy I would normally expend in other areas (anti green social media influence, climate extreme critical analysis, youtube production, physical prospecting) might be better spent throwing support behind the change makers in this sphere.

In that spirit if anyone has any suggestions about current campaigns or points of contact please freely inbox me so I can help out in some manner aside from lobby membership and help support active campaigning. Cheers.