Whites SPP Adding Conductivity switch

[KarlS]

I got no problem with soldering, been doing it for some forty years. I would like to use correct plug as not to void warranty.
Karl

 

[Guest]

I got no problem with soldering, been doing it for some forty years. I would like to use correct plug as not to void warranty.
Karl

indeed, my friends SPP isn't under warranty so it wasn't a problem. I installed the control box on a straight shaft, replaced all the crappy cheap arse potentiometers with some Precision Potentiometers.. probably has zero effect on the machines performance but hey.. its fun to tinker.

PS, using precision pots can be a major pain in the balls... 10 turn..

 

[Reg]

I really don't like using LIPO's in the TDI or the SL. They don't have any current limiting, plus they are much more prone to bulging and outright failure. Instead, I use Li-Ion 18650's. There is a third party that makes a package that simply drops in the SL or SPP. That is what I use in their 2900ma package. The company is RNB for those of you interested.

The SPP or SL can operate on up to 18V, so even the TDI batteries could be used. Obviously, they would have to be mounted externally to the box and maybe plug in to be used, but it is something to think about.

Reg

 

[Dogmatic]

Hi Reg and thanks for the info. Is this the company you are talking about? http://rnb-innovations.com/
If I am reading it correctly the battery for the SPP is now the MP3100mAh. They don't do the 2900 anymore.
A great price and should give some great detector time.

What sort of beneficial or adverse affects would 18v have on the SPP?

 

[Guest]

Yeah, If you're gonna use a LIPO velcro the SOB outside the detector.. or better yet, find another option..

 

[Reg]

Yes, the website is correct for the SL battery. I didn't know they went to the 3100. That must have happened recently.

Now, The SL and relatives like the SPP are limited to 18V according to what I was told by the factory, so my recommendation would be no more than 4 Li Ion batteries in series which would be 16.8v at max charge. This quickly drops to less than 16V. Better yet, limiting the charge per battery to 4v and not 4.2V would increase the life span by years. In other words, checking the voltage and shutting the charge down at 4V per battery will give you almost maximum run time but would increase the life of the battery pack dramatically.

Now, looking at a spare SL board, I see the caps are rated at 16V, so people should look at their boards to see what is installed. The Caps would normally be the limiting factor.

I really never saw any significant depth difference between the SL and the TDI. So, I don't expect much improvement going to a larger battery. Keep in mind, much of the depth loss is caused by the GB technique. Coming up with a better idea for that would be the big help. In the mean time, when the ground permits, simply tweaking the GB control and using the single tone mode allows for some depth modifications.

I tried to post a link but was denied being able to do so. So, hopefully this image will show.

Once this chart makes sense, it is easy to figure out what will happen to a target signal when the GB is adjusted.

Reg

 

[ronniecruisin]

Hi. All. Just a note on the missing Pulse Pot. From what I could see on a photo of the control surface of a TDI SL there is no pulse width control and as was said there is no internal female plug on the board of the SPP even though the spot is there and labelled for it. There is only the pulse delay plug seemingly ready to go if you were to plug a pot into it. Sooooooo. As the SL only has one control that the SPP doesn't, wouldn't it be as simple as the conductivity switch trick to simply plug a pot in and it should do the same thing as the SL???????. Only issue I can see is as before mentioned, and as Zuke responded to the set mini pot on the board at 10us. The two machines seem to be absolutely identical except for the missing two control items. As they are both on the circuit board of the SPP it appears to be simply Plug and Play. I have ordered the switch and loom from Goldsearch. Just missed their order so prob. be about three weeks. But it will be the right one so worth the wait I think.

 

[Guest]

Just to clarify regarding the internal pulse delay pot I miss read information on the TDI pro a while ago and the internal adjustment pot is for a GB and it should never need touching. Nor will any other internal adjustments as Reg has stated.
The conductivity switch seams to be a easy add on and even easyier if Goldsearch can order the whole loom ready to plug in as it's already a replacement part for the SL.
Reg may be able to talk a bit more about adding the external pulse delay adjustment tho I don't see the need as it's already locked into the best delay setting for gold.
The graph above was very difficult to understand when I first saw it 12months ago but once you do some testing with different targets you will soon understand.

 

[ronniecruisin]

Hi. Zuke. Yes. On the other post re. this issue I have asked Reg. if he can clarify this point re. Pulse delay. As I said there, I can't understand why, if the connection point is already there as is the conductivity switch, Shouldn't the delay pot also work if you plugged a pot into it? I realize it's prob. not needed, but it appears to be identical to the SL, so if it's easy, Why not have it.?

 

[KarlS]

The conductivity switch circuit is an analog circuit and as such it can be added or modify. Pulse delay is digital function implemented in the software in the microprocessor. If the software on SPP has been modified as to not process pulse delay, adding components to the board will do nothing.
Karl

 

[Guest]

Honestly I'm not even going to bother with the delay on the SPP all the coils that I will never use won't need any other setting than 10usec. I'm sure for those that really want' it could be added by getting the loom ordered though goldsearch and plug it in but finding a spot for it that won't be in the way could be a issue.

 

[Reg]

Looking at the technical aspects, I am not sure if adding the pot to the delay would make it work or not. It shouldn't hurt to try though. If I had to guess, I would think adding the pot might add the delay feature. Again, this is only a guess on my part at this time.

Reg

 

[ronniecruisin]

The reason I'm interested in the delay is because(correct me if I'm wrong) I remember reading somewhere that large coils may not work properly without it. Wouldn't mind having a 17" elliptical on the SPP. One of my favorite coils when I had my GPX4000. Isn't this the reason for the Delay in the first place?? If not, does anyone know what it's function is??

 

[Guest]

I think all coils will work on them but some may not work optimally at the preset 10us especially in highly mineralised ground, wet sand etc. Not much info about so might be trial & error. If you've already got the coils no big deal but if not I would try before buying or ask another SPP user first. Had read somewhere that some coils don't like the 10us setting at all.

Pulse Delay
TDI transmits a pulse and then, after a short time delay, samples the received signal. Pulse Delay allows this time delay to be adjusted from 10us (microseconds) to 25us. In response to a transmitted impulse, all targets exhibit a response with an exponential decay. Regardless of conductivity, the response is strongest at low sample delays and weaker at higher delays. However, targets of low conductivity or that are thin will decay faster than highly conductive or thick targets.
Smaller gold nuggets fall in the former category, so nugget hunters will want the Pulse Delay set as low as possible. (I wrote: hence the SPP @10us). Coin or relic hunters may want to increase the delay to knock out thin foil trash and still detect desirable targets. Most iron (especially larger) responds with a long decay and is usually not very responsive to the delay setting.
Conductive salts also respond with a fast decay and can be detected at low delay settings. If beach hunting in wet salt sand, you may need to turn the delay up to 15us to eliminate the salt response. Dry salt is usually not a problem...

Just a question to for those modding the SPP or adding the conductivity switch. The TDI SL manual says you need to switch into "ALL" to ground balance. Has the SPP been defaulted to "ALL" to allow ground balancing. What affect will adding the switch have on the ground balance or the preset ground balance function on the SPP if indeed the switch is "plug & play"?

To be honest if it were me & I wanted all the bells + whistles I would just spend the extra $900 or so on a TDI that has been designed to operate with all these functions. The SPP is a simplified version of it for a reason?

 

[Guest]

I think all coils will work on them but some may not work optimally at the preset 10us especially in highly mineralised ground, wet sand etc. Not much info about so might be trial & error. If you've already got the coils no big deal but if not I would try before buying or ask another SPP user first. Had read somewhere that some coils don't like the 10us setting at all.

Pulse Delay
TDI transmits a pulse and then, after a short time delay, samples the received signal. Pulse Delay allows this time delay to be adjusted from 10us (microseconds) to 25us. In response to a transmitted impulse, all targets exhibit a response with an exponential decay. Regardless of conductivity, the response is strongest at low sample delays and weaker at higher delays. However, targets of low conductivity or that are thin will decay faster than highly conductive or thick targets.
Smaller gold nuggets fall in the former category, so nugget hunters will want the Pulse Delay set as low as possible. (I wrote: hence the SPP @10us). Coin or relic hunters may want to increase the delay to knock out thin foil trash and still detect desirable targets. Most iron (especially larger) responds with a long decay and is usually not very responsive to the delay setting.
Conductive salts also respond with a fast decay and can be detected at low delay settings. If beach hunting in wet salt sand, you may need to turn the delay up to 15us to eliminate the salt response. Dry salt is usually not a problem...

Just a question to for those modding the SPP or adding the conductivity switch. The TDI SL manual says you need to switch into "ALL" to ground balance. Has the SPP been defaulted to "ALL" to allow ground balancing. What affect will adding the switch have on the ground balance or the preset ground balance function on the SPP if indeed the switch is "plug & play"?

To be honest if it were me & I wanted all the bells + whistles I would just spend the extra $900 or so on a TDI that has been designed to operate with all these functions. The SPP is a simplified version of it for a reason?

Subgram says he has experienced no ill effects to his ground balance, or any other function after the switch was installed..

He has mentioned that it was basically 'in his opinion, and mine' a waste of time, its not a performance enhancing mod, it adds a feature that whites decided wasn't worth maintaining.. what does that tell you?.. I hardly think they removed those options to save on the cost of a $2.45 toggle switch, or $1.95 potentiometer from china..

The SPP out of the box is a great machine, I don't see a need to modify it unless you flat out NEED the omitted functions.. in which case you make an excellent point, Pay the 900+$ extra and get the TDI.

 

[Guest]

If you are Adding the conductivity switch to the SPP when the switch is in it's center position it will operate like normal in ALL.
You could also order a TDI SL at goldsearch they are about $1900.

 

[ronniecruisin]

Ooooooohhhh! I dunno bout that Lazy Trommel. One thing, you're bang on the money with ...Yes. The SPP is very nice indeed out of the box. I'm really digging it. Light..Sensitive. All in all....Lovely. But. tis only my learned opinion, but I reckon the Cond. switch is a must have if it's simple to do which we now know it is. I had it on my Pro OZ and found it very useful and quite unique for a Pulse machine.. With a small coil it becomes a very capable Discriminating Coin Hunter. Very unusual for a Pulse! Also handy, also with a small coil for small Gold among Trash. I found if set right, those pesky little bits of rusty wire and nails and other stuff just disappear! Of course.. you must be careful not to misuse this feature, for in some cases you may miss good targets. But IMHO well worth having, especially considering the piddling cost of the parts. Which brings me to another point. Make a smaller box. take a couple of controls off. Advertise it as the cheapest Pulse unit on the market. Put a different name on it. and hey ...Presto, the world will beat a path to your door. Most customers won't look inside and wonder, like a small percentage of us will do! They will just buy it and have fun. Electronic components are cheap. The $900 extra for the SL means nothing. It's all to do with marketing. Don't pay it! We have been given the opportunity to have an SL for $900 less. Go for it, and enjoy this little bit of luck that has been thrown our way! It doesn't happen very often!

 

[Guest]

Very true Ronnie and at the rate the SPP is selling out each order it might not last.

 

[ronniecruisin]

Yes. There's a good reason for that Zuke.....It is a surprisingly good machine. Mine picked up a 10mm copper braided return earth cable at about 600mm. Nice. easy to define deep signal. I found it has a better more defined sound for a deep target than the GPX4000 I owned. And that was with the standard coil that came with it. I'm getting a Detech 8" to go with my new cond. switch when it comes. Might be good I hope. Good for coin hunting using the switch and small gold when not.

 

[KarlS]

Zuke you maybe right that SPP will run out . What I understand it was batch of machines intended for market outside of USA and the sale for one reason or other did not went ahead. White's doesn't seems to be very excited about selling such a budget machine.
Karl