Which Side Will Gold Shed?

Prospecting Australia

Help Support Prospecting Australia:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Mostly around Whipstick at this stage. I figure better to learn 1 area really well. Joined bpc and found them great. I got the 4500 as people "said" with the new coils you can match a 2300 but have more options.
 
Can anyone, or is there a previous post, explain dip ? I understand the term strike but I can't wrap my head around dip ?
 
having been in oil and gas exploration globally for over 30 years I "hope" I can shed some light on this subject.

Its all about the easiest path that moving matter has, then hydrostatics take over which is pressure exerted by a column of fluid, and that column doesn't have to be uniform in shape, it can be absolutely any shape you like. Also the fluid or fluids will have varying density, and depending upon what the fluids are comprised of, they may or may not commingle. So some fluids will try to climb above others, by this I mean some will try and sit on top of others such as oil and water does.... seperation. Also some fluids have a lower melting point, so some fluids will continue to move while others have come to a halt.

As we all know gold doesn't seem to commingle with anything at all, at least not to the naked eye anyway, it adheres but it don't commingle, and thats a good thing!

This would explain why some have found gold uphill from a shedding reef, in this case something has pushed it up further in height than the reef itself, or compared to the reef its had an easier path to transverse through, pressure and porosity are the main culprits, pressure can be from below or above too, its a balancing act between them all... density, height, porosity, and resistance.

Its that simple, hence the saying gold is where you find it.

Unfortunately, the surface terrain to the naked eye really doesn't tell us much at all, its all about what lays below the surface. This is why they take core samples on gold prospects, to understand geology, they can then start to predict with quite good accuracy these days once they understand the layers..

If you find a reef, look above, below, side on and any conceivable direction you feel is worth it... because it is!

Regards AL
 
Crushed said:
Can anyone, or is there a previous post, explain dip ? I understand the term strike but I can't wrap my head around dip ?

Pretty sure dip is the angle say a quartz reef runs through the ground ,remember everything has been pushed,squeezed,folded and messed up in some areas so they can run a sharp angle downwards or maybe run shallow below the surface,look up anticlines or synclines this will help explain a bit more also.....
 
Goldchaser1 said:
Crushed said:
Can anyone, or is there a previous post, explain dip ? I understand the term strike but I can't wrap my head around dip ?

Pretty sure dip is the angle say a quartz reef runs through the ground ,remember everything has been pushed,squeezed,folded and messed up in some areas so they can run a sharp angle downwards or maybe run shallow below the surface,look up anticlines or synclines this will help explain a bit more also.....
Strike direction is the imaginary line of intersection formed by a rock layer, quartz reef etc with an imaginary horizontal surface (eg imagine it sitting in a pond, the water surface is horizontal). The dip direction is perpendicular to the strike direction. The dip angle is the angle between the imaginary horizontal surface and a line drawn on the rock layer etc in the direction of dip. The strike angle is the angle between the strike line and true north.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...607990032338519061&selectedIndex=8&ajaxhist=0

Look at the figure above. If you have a nice smooth and perfectly planar surface on a quartz reef or rock layer, piss on it. The water runs down the dip direction - the angle between that and the horizontal is the angle of dip. We sometimes do that when the dip angle is very small and we are having trouble working out the strike direction (the water runs down the dip direction, and strike is at right angles to the dip direction).

Here is an example of rock layers that you could do this with:

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...dex=12&qpvt=flat+rock+layers+photo&ajaxhist=0

The image below shows dipping rock - you can see that the rock layers are not horizontal, they have a dip (about 60 degrees to the right - if right was east we would say 60 degrees east, or simply write 60E.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...08004922996097736&selectedIndex=56&ajaxhist=0

One common mistake that people make is assuming that strike direction is the direction made by a rock later and a sloping hill side as below (that is a steep hill slope in the background, flat land in the foreground, a traffic light to the left). If you did that you might incorrectly think the rock layer was striking away from you:

1531281836_flatirons2.jpg


But it is not, it is actually striking left to right across the photo - strike is the angle between a HORIZONTAL plane and the rock layer, not the angle between a sloping hill surface and the rock layer. If you look at the above photo in full (below) you can see that you would incorrectly get different strike directions all over the hill if you did that. You get this pattern when a rock layer is dipping towards you at a steeper angle than the hill is sloping towards you:

1531282084_flatirons.jpg


To accurately measure strike and dip you really need to go up to a rock layer and imagine it intersecting a horizontal surface (or measure it with a compass like a cheap Sunto that has an inbuilt clinometer). The dip direction is the angle of maximum slope, i.e. the largest angle obtained with the horizontal). Or, this surface would be an ideal one to piss on and actually see the dip direction.

https://opentextbc.ca/geology/wp-content/uploads/sites/110/2015/08/figure12.192.png

A geologist could rough guess it though through experience, as I have done in this case (because I know the different patterns made by rock layers on hills of different slope).
 
Hi Goldierocks,thanks for the explanation. When we have a flat plane of rock dipping right or left , I understand perfectly.However I get confused when looking at an anticline or a syncline as to dip direction. Is it dipping both East and west if strike is North ? Crushed and confused !
 
Crushed said:
Hi Goldierocks,thanks for the explanation. When we have a flat plane of rock dipping right or left , I understand perfectly.However I get confused when looking at an anticline or a syncline as to dip direction. Is it dipping both East and west if strike is North ? Crushed and confused !
I was sort of expecting this question next. Those are not anticlines and synclines in my photo, by the way, simply single parallel planes dipping towards you - no folding at all. The pattern is caused by parallel planes intersecting the surface of spurs and gullies.

https://www3.nd.edu/~cneal/PlanetEarth/Rule-of-Vs.jpg

Yes, you are quite right - you can only give the dip and strike of a single plane. A fold like an anticline or syncline has two LIMBS, each of which is a separate plane. So if the rocks are striking north, you would say that the west limb of an anticline dips west, and the east limb of an anticline dips east (the reverse for a syncline).

We also have descriptions for folds (in addition to describing the attitude of fold limbs):

http://homepage.usask.ca/~mjr347/prog/geoe118/images/plunge1.gif

A fold has an axis (a line, not a plane), and we say the axis has a trend (the name we use for the direction of lines relative to north, rather than for planes). If you bend a wad of pages into a fold, you are bending it about the axis. The axis has a plunge (angle between axis and the horizontal measured in a vertical plane). It also has an axial plane that divides it into the two limbs (sort of a mirror image) - being a plane we also give this axial plane a strike and dip. The axis is a line lying on the axial plane. So for the diagram, if north is away from you and parallel to the fold axis, we would say:

"A symmetrical anticline (since in other folds the limbs could dip at different angles), plunging 30 degrees north (the axis) with a vertical axial plane (so strike 0 degrees dip 90 degrees). The limbs have rocks striking approximately north, and dipping 45 degrees west and east respectively)". An anticline because the rocks close upwards (in a syncline they close downwards.

It is just fairly simple geometry. describing the position in space of rocks relative to north and an imaginary horizontal plane.

This shows some asymmetric folds:

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=asymmetric+fold&qpvt=assymetric+fold&FORM=IGRE
 
I was with you on post 26 Goldierocks...and then post 29 got me in all sorts of trouble :lol: Thanks for taking the time to explain things :Y:

Referring back to the wonderful thing that is yellow...what does the angle of all this stuff mean when we are looking for gold? Does it have any significant bearing on gold formation or the amount you are likely to find? Or simply that the steeper the angle the further gold may have moved from the area?

Northeast ;)
 
Northeast said:
I was with you on post 26 Goldierocks...and then post 29 got me in all sorts of trouble :lol: Thanks for taking the time to explain things :Y:

Referring back to the wonderful thing that is yellow...what does the angle of all this stuff mean when we are looking for gold? Does it have any significant bearing on gold formation or the amount you are likely to find? Or simply that the steeper the angle the further gold may have moved from the area?

Northeast ;)
Yes, geology students have the advantage of playing with 3D models, which makes it much easier....

Usually this only has relevance if you are trying to trace the surface outcrop of a gold reef that has poor outcrop (if you understand the intersection of a reef of a certain dip with a hill surface of certain slope, you can predict where it might be farther up or down the hill, because its intersection with the surface may be curving). Likewise if you are sinking a hole next to a reef (or drilling a hole) you can predict at what depth in the hole you should hit that same reef. Sometimes gold is associated with a particular rock (eg black slate) and you can similarly follow the slate in outcrop or know where you will intersect it at depth. Likewise a reef may be offset by a fault (which also has strike and dip).

Often we don't actually measure but "eyeball" it - "given that it dips about 30 degrees west on a hill trending 30 degrees east, I will probably find its continuation to the....."

It is rarely relevant to the amount of gold in the vein or rock layer....except that sometimes gold is enriched in a quartz vein where it hits a bed of graphitic slate, so it might help you find the intersection point.

Many reefs have been "lost" in the past because the miners didn't understand geometry, only to be re-discovered later by others.
 
One more for Goldierocks,you have me understanding strike and dip.The other geological term I struggle with is an indicator.Near Amhurst in th GT is Knotts indicator . My wife and I climbed the hill and located an outcrop of stone just below the crest of the hill.This was not my understanding of an indicator . I was expecting a seam of Quartz and slate . Was the outcrop the indicator or did we not actually see the "indicator" ?
 
Crushed said:
One more for Goldierocks,you have me understanding strike and dip.The other geological term I struggle with is an indicator.Near Amhurst in th GT is Knotts indicator . My wife and I climbed the hill and located an outcrop of stone just below the crest of the hill.This was not my understanding of an indicator . I was expecting a seam of Quartz and slate . Was the outcrop the indicator or did we not actually see the "indicator" ?
Most reference to indicators is mythology, many are no more useful than a road sign to Bakery Hill, Ballarat, but a minority have substance to them. They are simply geological features that old practical prospectors THOUGHT were spatially associated with gold, usually thin features of only mm width. Some were layers of pyrite in the rock, others layers of graphite, some were quartz veins (commonly parallel to rock bedding). To give an example that illustrates why their presence can be as unrelated as a road sign, the "pencilmark" indicator at Ballarat was probably graphite (carbon), probably simply a carbon-rich layer deposited in the sea when the rock was forming (commonly with slate, which forms from mud - if there is little oxygen on the sea floor, carbon-rich material will not oxidise away, but will stay as a carbon-rich layer). But as the author Mark Twain explained after a visit to Ballarat East field, there was no direct relationship between gold and the pencilmark indicator. The indicator simply occurred in the rock a certain distance from the system of gold-bearing quartz, so if you saw it you knew you had to walk a certain distance (I think it was about 7 m west?, normally up the hillside) to find the gold-bearing quartz - it "indicated" where to go to find it. This was because the gold-quartz veins had a geometric relationship to folds, and the rocks that make up a fold therefore also have a geometric relation to the gold-bearing quartz veins. For example, one important set of quartz veins at Ballarat East ("leatherjacket" structures), always cut through the east limb of folds. Prospecting along that pencilmark indicator itself would not find you the gold, it simply indicated how far you had to walk to one side of it (there is still a Pencilmark Lane in Ballarat City, although few know its derivation).

I notice that many people on this site thing the gold-bearing quartz veins themselves were called the indicator - that was rarely the case (but since the old prospectors had no committees to standardize terminology, a few used the term that way - ie in the sense that quartz was an indicator of gold, because most Victorian gold is found in quartz veins). More commonly, the indicator was a graphitic or pyritic layer (or bedded quartz vein without gold), or a combination of two or three of these, only mm thick. The prospectors would walk these out along their strike looking for where thicker quartz veins CROSSED (cut through) these indicators. They claimed that the intersection point commonly had nuggety gold (in the quartz vein that crossed the indicator). Probably in many cases it was coincidental, and in all cases the tonnage was so tiny that they were only of interest to a hand-to-mouth prospector (or a modern recreational detectorologist, who wants coarse gold specimens rather than a multi-million tonne low-grade mine).

Unfortunately no one seems to have ever photographed how such rich patches occurred in veins cutting indicators, and no very accurate sketches were made or quantitative evidence given, only generalised sketches and descriptions (we do have museum specimens of the indicators themselves, but not of gold-rich patches where they were crossed by quartz veins). However a few geologists (eg Dunn) gave good descriptions and illustrative cartoons, sadly in many cases from anecdotes from miners rather than through direct observation, but good enough to convince me that in some cases "indicators" were sites of gold enrichment in veins that cut them. They were not of much interest to big companies, which is probably a reason why government geologists did not describe them well (eg often just a few hundred ounces out of a couple of square metres area - or much less - surrounded by barren rock). However there is a chemical reason for supposing that some were real. If the hot water that deposited quartz veins intersected carbon, the gold bisulphide ion carried in that water would reduce to metallic gold, that would precipitate out at that point. The same thing can occur with gold dissolving at surface during weathering - the cold salty rain water could trickle down and precipitate gold where it hit carbon.

Personally I am dubious about using indicators on a regular basis in prospecting, beyond the fact that areas of carbon-rich slates (even thick beds of such rock) containing quartz veins are probably favourable for richer gold. I consider such rock preferable to say, clean quartz sandstone. The Ballarat West field is localised in a bed of black slate on multiple adjacent folds, despite most of the rock in those folds being sandstone (the reason could be chemical, or simply that a layer of slate between much thicker sandstone beds crumpled much more during folding, and allowed fluids to penetrate its faulted structures). However the slate is thick (many metres) and not what old miners typically called an indicator. The suburb of Magpie in Ballarat is named after the typical appearance of gold-rich quartz on the field ("Magpie quartz") so named for the alternating layers in it of carbon layers, interlayered with white quartz (black and white like the bird).

I hope that helps.
 
BigWave said:
If a rooster could carry a hen's egg and lay it on the peak of a roof (can't imagine why), then it could obviously roll both ways. Same if a hen laid her egg in the same spot. It's a weird concept and some seriously deranged poultry you're talking there!.
In general (in the Vic GT), if a gold bearing reef dips to the East, then it will have shed to the West (and vice versa).
Congrats on Layla by the way Poppy RJ.
No, it could not roll both ways. But, it could roll either way :)
 
Since I started prospecting and had noticed that gold was found on the east side of the hill I always wondered why has it mostly been this side and not the other? Even old dig holes where other people have found it was on the east side. Maybe back millions of years ago they had strong easterly winds to erode the east side of a hill faster hence the gold falling to the east? rotation of the earth? Who knows. Would be interesting if everyone who finds gold or goes to there patch take note of which side its on and make a tally!
 

Latest posts

Top