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It's ll cool pennyweight, I'm sincerely sorry for the backlash that you're received and perhaps you didn't know the subjects you discussed were touchy ones. I'm happy to toss around the pros and cons of dredging but not the other - it seems that you've moved on from your opening comment as well https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=229239#p229239

casper
 
I think you'll find (even in past threads) these sort of topics will illicit the same response. Can I dredge....no. Can I hydraulic sluice? ....no. Do these things do damage, actually it doesn't matter, the rules are the rules.
We can all sit back and weigh up the pros and cons, write letters, protest, and add our thoughts, but the reality is still no dredging, no hydraulic sluicing and abide by the current rulings.
I think dredging has little impact and the impact with a shovel cannot hold a candle to the fury of nature in violent flood, but still rules are rules.
Digging in the banks is another one, old nature rips out trees from bank side but I can't put a shovel in there. The simple reason I comply is I don't want to take away everyone's right to shovel some dirt or give anyone ammunition to shut us down, as absurd as the rules seem in light of our impact against natural occurrences they are here to stay, even if they make little sense.
 
Maybe it's the same pennyweight here that's notorious for selling dredges & relieving honest people ( or suckers) out of their hard earned cash?
If you think dredging or hydraulic sluicing will ever be allowed in Australia again for hobby prospectors you're deadset dreaming. We're not small scale miners here (or most aren't) & dredging as a whole, not just in mining terms, is heavily regulated.
Most hobbyists can't be bothered getting on board even with basic right of access issues or clearer rules around using a basic sluice or highbanker so I can't see you drumming up much support for a push on dredging or hydraulic sluicing!
My opinion is hydraulic sluicing should stay where it is now - an interesting historical method that wasn't overly efficient anyway for all the mess it left. Dredging - well small 2-3" hobby dredges might be ok in a lot of ways but I shudder to think what the already unscrupulous & greedy among us now would stoop to if they thought they had a green light! 8)
 
Im sure many members here have gone to their favorite spot only to see it raped to bedrock by illegal dredging and not worthy of any further fossicking .
Hands up anyone that would actualy like to see the results if it was ACTUALLY LEGAL to do it ?
 
Dredging creeks/rivers/streams I'd like to think would stay banned, leave them for the hobbyists or semi pro prospectors, hydraulic sluicing got banned that long ago you'd be struggling to find a coloured picture of it in action, although I have seen a coloured YouTube clip of a water monitor in action then there is also what they get up to in the Klondike, but they're mining claims, a completely different subject to licensed prospecting
Had a friend some years back ask me to build him a dredge, after a lengthy discussion on the do's and don'ts of legal prospecting I ended up lending him some dive gear, shovel bucket and a high banker, and man did the lad do well, although he paid no attention to my advice on altitude diving and bottom times :rolleyes:
I'm all for leaving our creeks/rivers and streams to prospectors with pans/sieves/sluices/bankers/trommels, if anyone did have a mining lease with permission to dredge it I would love to see it in action, however I could imagine the size of your rehab plan, to put it back the way it was would equal a pretty hefty diesel bill.
Finally, a 4" (100mm) suction dredge is not small, the raping something that sized would do to a creek would be outright shocking, and I'd like to know how one would intend on backfilling :|
 
if it was legal yeah i will say i would like to try it just as an experience but it isnt so i wont nor would i like to see people doing it, we all get the punishment when the dredgers do what they do illegally, restricted rivers, streams, areas we are not allowed to go in and bans on my favorite and i am guessing a few others on this forum hobby, it is illegal and to be honest i hope it stays that way
 
Yeah I'm kinda Siding with Mbasko on this one, it would appear the only person or persons that would post such a thread would be people who have dredged in the past and still continue today to use dredges and I also hope its not someone local that is making them here in vic and trying to sell them to the average prospector all I can say that if this is the case it will be people like pennyweight that totally screw it for the rest of us. so I will thank you in advance... Cheers for that :cool:
 
Yes both dredging and hydraulic sluicing are illegal, and probably will never be legal in this country for fossicking again.

Personally, I would love to be able to sit in the river in summer time with a tiny 2" getting some gold whilst cooling off. But I do not see it ever happening, as prospectors as a group seem more content to whinge about problems and argue amongst ourselves, rather than organise and stand up for ourselves.
I do find it a little funny people claiming a dredge came through and all the gold is gone, as our creeks and rivers were heavily dredged back in the 70's and 80's yet there is still gold to be found. In America they have been hitting their creeks and rivers for longer than us, though they are still finding gold.
Yes its frustrating if you have travelled far and find the spot you were wanting to work bare due to illegal dredging. But are you telling me there is no where else in the are to dig?
I personally find it more frustrating heading to places like Graben Gullen and Tuena and seeing the holes and mess that have been left by people highbanking.

In NSW we have been told that the official government stance is that highbanking is illegal for at least 6 years now, probably longer. But whenever talk popped up about doing something about it, everyone wanted to leave well enough alone, so we are still in the same situation we were 6 years ago. NAPFA started up to try and organise the fight for NSW but only a handful of people ever joined. So much for power in numbers huh. We have half a dozen prospecting forums, with practically the same member base with the exception of a few, because certain people can not get over petty BS, not because there is any real difference in forums.

Just my two frustrated cents.
 
Hi Folks,
There have been many threads/posts on here and other forums regarding what we can and cannot do surrounding amateur prospecting and a significant number of people across the forums complaining why something has not been done to clarify some regulations and remove other seemingly odd regulations.
It would be interesting to have the mods run a poll to see just how many forum members do in fact support their state or territory prospecting organisation.
At the end of the day the only way to have changes implemented is to have a strong voice with the various government departments that make the regulations.
Come on folks, if you're not already a member of a prospecting lobbying group, join up and show your support, the greater the numbers the more likely favourable changes can be made.
Cheers,SinHof.
 
Just to stick up for the dredgers a little bit.I used to dredge the Turon when it was legal with a floating 3"keene.The water that came out of the sluce was as clean as what was sucked into it as i only dredged the river,Then others decided to dredge the banks in amonst the tree roots etc,turning the water muddy and causing erosion.this is when the sheep cockys started to complain [cant say i blamed them]I still cant see what damage a dredge does if only used within the banks especially on rivers like the turon were most of the material gets turned over at each flood.I can see high bankers going the same way unless we somehow self regulate.
 
I don't think running a poll is going to do or prove anything or that it's up to mods to do it. It's good to have forum support for these associations but they are separate entities & need to allow forum members to make their own personal decision on joining without feeling pressed. A poll would only get the same people responding that always do or the same main forum contributors. There would be NAPFA, PMAV etc. members that would not belong to any forums either likewise forum members not belonging to any association - their choice at the end of the day.
In saying that I agree more people should be joining there state association if only to offer small annual membership fee to help the cause financially. The best way to help is to not only join but actively get involved if time allows or assist where you can with information & backing any submissions etc. made with your own individual contribution. Too many people who want better things are reluctant to do anything except post to a forum anonymously!
Some may think that I'm one of the anonymous "whingers" but I can say that anything that I have brought up on forums is usually after I have made official enquiries into the issue myself & comes from frustration at the system.
Over the last few years I have not only assisted NAPFA with research information & statements of events to back particular submissions but have made a few individual submissions of my own, including one interstate in Victoria.
I know how hard Stephen & the team at NAPFA work for all of us - not just members. I've got to admit being fairly disillusioned by the lack of forum support for some recent issues but also glad to see others contribute well too. You can't make people support something just because you believe in it or are passionate about it. I sometimes wonder just how passionate some are in this hobby at times or the direction things take in various discussion. Sometimes it would appear people are more driven to get rights more designed for small scale mining without paying the cost for those rights rather than just trying to ensure we keep + improve on what's more relevant to us as mostly HOBBYIST FOSSICKERS/PROSPECTORS!
 
If I had my way I would love to be able to dredge but its true people just don't like following rules and high bankers are probably on the way out IMO just by what I see in popular areas as a result of digging into creek banks and so on I think the only dredging we will all be doing here in Vic anyway is if I get my hand dredge certified as a hand tool and you all buy one :lol: .. I personally am not a member of any organization as I believe they are just a club put together by hobbyist that with all due respect have no real political push and that again is just my opinion and don't get me wrong clubs are an excellent place to meet new people with a similar interest as I have done by becoming a member of this website .. Lets face and be honest with yourself there will never be another Eureka Stockade as we don't have red coats looking over us or any Bobby's (police) going around enforcing whatever upon us so I don't think you will ever get a stand like that again unless the economy turns belly up and their are no jobs a bit like a resection.. Now having said all that if their is ever a movement towards getting any size dredging legal again sign me up and I will be their with a banner :D
Greencheeks
 
Hi Greencheeks77,
Your comment about the various prospecting organisations; here in NSW NAPFA is definitely NOT a club, they do not organise get-togethers other than the mandatory yearly AGM, NAPFA is a lobbying organisation. As for having "no real political push" you might like to check-out the NAPFA web site.
" Lets face and be honest with yourself there will never be another Eureka Stockade as we don't have red coats looking over us or any Bobby's (police) going around enforcing whatever upon us"
I would have to agree with you in that it's highly unlikely we will ever see another Eureka Stockade, as far as having Red Coats and Bobbies observing what we do in terms of carrying on our hobby, they no longer exist,but it would be a fair bet that the various state government departments that regulate what and how we are allowed to fossick/prospect are certainly keeping an eye on our activities.
From time to time we see photos and videos of individuals/groups working with equipment that very definitely stretches the regulations to the limit; this type of material on public forums would certainly provide ammunition/evidence of people over-stepping the mark to our latter day Red Coats and Bobbies and may well come back and bite us all in the future.
Anyway thanks for your thoughts, I'm sure others will have their say on these matters.
Cheers,SinHof.
 
"I personally find it more frustrating heading to places like Graben Gullen and Tuena and seeing the holes and mess that have been left by people highbanking."

Hear bloody hear Shivan!!
 
Hi Mbasko,
Having just reread your post above for the second time and that of Shivan; collectively the two posts some up the current situation rather well.
Shivan quoted; " I personally find it more frustrating heading to places like Graben Gullen and Tuena and seeing the holes and mess that have been left by people highbanking."
Just for a moment, ponder what could happen if a departmental compliance officer were to visit areas as described above? in all probability the regulations we have now would be fairly tame compared to what could eventuate in the future. People who leave prospecting sites in a mess need to have a long hard think about the issues that their actions could/will cause in the future and really screw up the hobby for the vast majority that follow the regulations.
Cheers, SinHof.
 
now I haven't been posting much in a while so here's my say or 5 cents worth we need better rules on a miners right it dose not say a depth you can dig to meaning if you wanted to you can go to 20m but providing you only use hand tools nothing with a motor witch is interesting because not many know that most think its 1.5m deep well its not because they haven't specified a depth you can dig by hand to but over a meter deep I would start supporting the ground in some way timbering and no im not suggesting everyone to go dig a deep shaft by hand. what im trying to get to is there are loop holes around some things and other things most don't know like for an example some creeks and rivers are banned from all prospecting entirely. but as someone said before if people start removing trees and digging in banks and leaving rubbish behind and not filling there holes in then we will just keep loosing more rights its just mainly the small things that will stuff it up things that people can't be bothered doing or caring about.

if I was the gov I would allow dredging but with strict guidelines and rules like no touching the banks no removing of trees and nothing bigger than 2" suction.

im not a dredger by the way im just saying if there's more pacific rules and guidelines in place there's less of a chance of us loosing more rights and the banning of future things like high banking.

now if they want to ban high banking well what do we all do then just be like the old timbers but with pvc made sluice pipes and pick and shovels and have to wait until a flood comes down the creek to wash our stacked material that's sitting on top of the sluice down the creek or go to the back breaking basics with just a pan and shovel.

I for one don't want to see it happen not sure about some others who get greedy and decide to remove trees and dig a long way into banks or don't fill their detector holes in making the whole area like the moons surface

and 1 more thing Victoria was literally build on or with the gold that was found in the towns you see today. there are only 5 big mines that operate in Victoria now out of almost a whopping 8000 or more that operated in 1850s to late 1920s but because its so regulated in the mining industry even they are opting out and struggling to keep mining in Victoria and the small scale miners well there's only 40 or so of them left prospecting licences about 10 or so and each year it seams to me like the mining in Victoria is just getting less and less.
anyway enough said
 
Once again we get back to wanting small scale or better mining rights under what is now a hobby miner's right? :rolleyes:
Victoria doesn't specify depth for a miner's right but does say that in processing you can use mechanical means as long as there is no significant land disturbance. Digging a 20m hole to get to a wash layer or quartz reef for processing would be considered significant land disturbance to me, handtools or not? If you want to dig a 20m shaft get a proper lease & go gangbusters?
Small scale or large scale mining regulations really only affect a handful of people on here & those who believe that they should have those rights under a $20 miner's right without any mine plans, rehab plans, royalties & so on :rolleyes:
How specific do you want the rules? Pretty much every state specifically states that you must fill your holes but people can't do that - how would you expect them to follow any other specific rules for things like dredges?
A couple of years ago a group of young blokes dredging a creek in Victoria were approached by a member of another forum & also PMAV. They verbally threatened him with physical harm & from memory there was a bit of a scuffle - these are the type of goons we're dealing with already without being specific HTY ;)
 

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