I have seen them there...have you ever seen anyone use a highbanker there...or water pumps for gold cubes..ect
Use of Water pumps in Qld
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Na...never...Have only seen panners ....river sluicers....And dog walkers...But you have been there more than me..I have seen where people... have been using a highbanker though....was anyone using pumps while the inspectors where there?
On the day i was river sluicing... tiny little sluice...he began to tell me my 5foot river sluice was to big...anything you can shovel into was a problem..hahaha
People in the area are quick to ring the department for anything.
I have had people tell me anything made from metal is mechanical... seriously some stupid people out there???
I have seen a few people highbank and gold cube and pump water to their sluices.... and all of them have filled holes and cleaned up the area nicely...even taken rubbish home with them.... there are a couple of people whom i havent met yet that come up here and abuse the area leave rubbish and dont fill holes even cart 30 odd buckets of dirt away....city boys from brizzy.. whom dont care about the place cause they dont live here.... just because a small few do silly things shouldnt mean we all get the sharp end of the stick. Education and awearness is needed ....and universal laws..
People in the area are quick to ring the department for anything.
I have had people tell me anything made from metal is mechanical... seriously some stupid people out there???
I have seen a few people highbank and gold cube and pump water to their sluices.... and all of them have filled holes and cleaned up the area nicely...even taken rubbish home with them.... there are a couple of people whom i havent met yet that come up here and abuse the area leave rubbish and dont fill holes even cart 30 odd buckets of dirt away....city boys from brizzy.. whom dont care about the place cause they dont live here.... just because a small few do silly things shouldnt mean we all get the sharp end of the stick. Education and awearness is needed ....and universal laws..
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Yer thats the whole problem its not policed enough ....So people will take advantage of the situation ...but the more highbankers and pumps that start getting used...the more people will ring and complain.... ..Then more nosey inspectors will bother us.........At the end of the day you wont get that much more gold by doing the wrong thing.....Though i do feel for the peope like yourself with back problems ect...a pump would help them to continue with their hobby.. (Wonder if a dodgy doctors certificate would permit me to use a pump)...lol....with the system i have worked out i can dig... classify ...and run 5...15ltr bukets if wash every hour or so...Ive worked out how to disolve the clay quite quickly....thats the bit that slows me down....but while im still fit and healthy.... im happy with that... 
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This is the answer i got from the mines department. This is my question. Hi there,
As per our conversation, I am trying to find out the use of a water pump after I have fossicked the material out of the ground to wash the material.
As the law states it has to be fossicked using a pick and shovel, which is what I am doing, However i am processing the material after it has been excavated from the ground using a water pump,
My interpretation of the act on this matter is the material has been fossicked from the ground using a pick and shovel which completes the fossicking phase.
I then wash the material with a water pump after it has been fossicked.
I understand the law says no machinery is to be used to fossick however I have completed the fossicking phase with a pick and shovel as the law required.
In the other states this is a common practice and is completely legal but in Qld it isnt clear as it doesnt say it.
Once I recieve your feedback I will pass it onto other members as they have the same question and so we can all avoid getting in trouble.
I hope you see our concern in this matter.
Thanks for your time.
The Response.
I understand this is something often debated online and elsewhere so Ill show you the sections of the Act that relate to this.
The meaning of fossick is described in section 5 of the Fossicking Act 1994 which I have copied below. It states that fossicking material can only be dug with hand tools.
5 Meaning of fossick
(1) Fossick means
(a) search for fossicking materials in a systematic or unsystematic way
(i) on the grounds surface; or
(ii) by digging with a hand tool; or
(b) collect fossicking materials.
(2) However, a person does not fossick merely because the person picks up a specimen of fossicking material the person finds by chance when doing something other than fossicking.
The fossicking material mentioned above is defined as
fossicking material means
(a) a gemstone; or
(b) an ornamental stone; or
(c) a mineral specimen; or
(d) alluvial gold; or
(e) a fossil (other than a fossil of a vertebrate animal); or
(f) a substance prescribed by regulation to be fossicking material;
but does not include a meteorite, tektite, or impact or ejected
material associated with a meteorite impact structure.
Therefore the fossicking material you are searching for is not the dirt to be washed. It is the gold, gemstone etc you find after you have washed it.
I hope this answers your concerns however If you need any further clarification please feel free to contact me using the details below
SOOOOOOO Im still not 100% clear on this whats your take?
As per our conversation, I am trying to find out the use of a water pump after I have fossicked the material out of the ground to wash the material.
As the law states it has to be fossicked using a pick and shovel, which is what I am doing, However i am processing the material after it has been excavated from the ground using a water pump,
My interpretation of the act on this matter is the material has been fossicked from the ground using a pick and shovel which completes the fossicking phase.
I then wash the material with a water pump after it has been fossicked.
I understand the law says no machinery is to be used to fossick however I have completed the fossicking phase with a pick and shovel as the law required.
In the other states this is a common practice and is completely legal but in Qld it isnt clear as it doesnt say it.
Once I recieve your feedback I will pass it onto other members as they have the same question and so we can all avoid getting in trouble.
I hope you see our concern in this matter.
Thanks for your time.
The Response.
I understand this is something often debated online and elsewhere so Ill show you the sections of the Act that relate to this.
The meaning of fossick is described in section 5 of the Fossicking Act 1994 which I have copied below. It states that fossicking material can only be dug with hand tools.
5 Meaning of fossick
(1) Fossick means
(a) search for fossicking materials in a systematic or unsystematic way
(i) on the grounds surface; or
(ii) by digging with a hand tool; or
(b) collect fossicking materials.
(2) However, a person does not fossick merely because the person picks up a specimen of fossicking material the person finds by chance when doing something other than fossicking.
The fossicking material mentioned above is defined as
fossicking material means
(a) a gemstone; or
(b) an ornamental stone; or
(c) a mineral specimen; or
(d) alluvial gold; or
(e) a fossil (other than a fossil of a vertebrate animal); or
(f) a substance prescribed by regulation to be fossicking material;
but does not include a meteorite, tektite, or impact or ejected
material associated with a meteorite impact structure.
Therefore the fossicking material you are searching for is not the dirt to be washed. It is the gold, gemstone etc you find after you have washed it.
I hope this answers your concerns however If you need any further clarification please feel free to contact me using the details below
SOOOOOOO Im still not 100% clear on this whats your take?
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As i have been told many times now ..by people in the mines department....and co workers that are geologists (And im really to afraid to ask the same question again.... and again ....as i dont want to look like a fool) ...you can only dig the dirt with hand tools...Once the dirt is dug...You can clean off the heavys in the creek by any means.. ...Except by the use of machinery....Which includs fuel powerd water pumps (Obviously )....And electronic pumps (Builge)ect..just because you are washing the dirt you have collected. ...does not mean you are not ......still fossicing...People are not getting it...if that were the case ...You could go to your designated fossicing areas. ..Without a licence....And use machinery (water pumps) And tell the inspecter...Im not fossicing...Im just washing the dirt to get the gold..Good luck...
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Mate will only take one person from the mines department to say we can use pumps...If one of us can get that one person to put it in writing...Share a copy to everyone...Then we can all use pumps freely..Reno_86 said:
bundyjd
John
Seems pretty clear to me - even if you consider using a highbanker or sluice to be processing not fossicking, you are still "searching for fossicking material" so that's where they would get you with the "hand tools only" bit.
I've only been to Deep Creek once and it didn't strike me as the sort of place I would want to run a petrol pump anyway given the location, but that's just my personal moral compass kicking in. But that particular spot aside and looking at the bigger picture, I'm still yet to hear of anybody actually copping a fine......
I've only been to Deep Creek once and it didn't strike me as the sort of place I would want to run a petrol pump anyway given the location, but that's just my personal moral compass kicking in. But that particular spot aside and looking at the bigger picture, I'm still yet to hear of anybody actually copping a fine......
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You wont get a definitive answer from 90% of people you ring at the mines department ...Cause most dont know the answer.....They are just looking up on their computer to see what it says....The only way is to confront the inspector when he is on the job....And if he says ....Yes you can use a pump here....(Which he wont)......Then get him to put it in writing.... and get him to sign his name an I.D.Number...Then that peice of paper will be Worth its wait in gold....use a large piece of paper it will be heavier
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Wow..... ive done no work today...*****
Smoky and the bandit.....
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Yer mate the bandit is my homemade sluice... it robs all the gold...Except i dont smoke anymore
My read of the extract from the Act is now different to my past interpretations of the Act and Regs.
What the mines officer is saying is... you have to look at what you try to get from fossicking...for us at Deep Creek it is "alluvial gold"
In the Act the fossicking material is defined as
(d) alluvial gold for me that's the shiny yellow stuff we are trying to find...NOT the dirt that surrounds it;
(1) Fossick means
(a) search for fossicking materials in a systematic or unsystematic way
(ii) by digging with a hand tool; or
(b) collect fossicking materials (alluvial gold).
If you look at (b) collect fossicking material (that is, alluvial gold) you can only collect fossicking material by using hand operated tools and the Act says pick shovel pan and sluice and detector are OK as these are hand operated.
The Act says you cannot use powered devices (like pumps, bob cats or other powered machinery) to collect fossicking material (gold- not the dirt it is in)
In summary the only allowed means to collect fossicking materials being alluvial gold (as defined in the Act) is by hand operated means.... collecting alluvial gold by separating it with a powered pump is not the same as collecting fossicking (gold) material by hand.
It's actually quite clear if you start with the concept that you are collecting alluvial gold (fossicking material) and then you look at the Act to ask 'how am I allowed to collect fossicking material?" and the only allowable way to do that is by hand operated tools that are defined in the Act.
so...throwing water by hand into a banjo or rocker to collect alluvial gold (fossicking material) would be OK (hand operated)
using a powered spiral wheel to separate gold from black sand is NOT OK as it is using machinery to "collect fossicking material"
It's pretty clear to me that using pump operated high bankers is not allowed under the ACT and I concede that this is a 180 degree about face from me.
cheers
Mike
What the mines officer is saying is... you have to look at what you try to get from fossicking...for us at Deep Creek it is "alluvial gold"
In the Act the fossicking material is defined as
(d) alluvial gold for me that's the shiny yellow stuff we are trying to find...NOT the dirt that surrounds it;
(1) Fossick means
(a) search for fossicking materials in a systematic or unsystematic way
(ii) by digging with a hand tool; or
(b) collect fossicking materials (alluvial gold).
If you look at (b) collect fossicking material (that is, alluvial gold) you can only collect fossicking material by using hand operated tools and the Act says pick shovel pan and sluice and detector are OK as these are hand operated.
The Act says you cannot use powered devices (like pumps, bob cats or other powered machinery) to collect fossicking material (gold- not the dirt it is in)
In summary the only allowed means to collect fossicking materials being alluvial gold (as defined in the Act) is by hand operated means.... collecting alluvial gold by separating it with a powered pump is not the same as collecting fossicking (gold) material by hand.
It's actually quite clear if you start with the concept that you are collecting alluvial gold (fossicking material) and then you look at the Act to ask 'how am I allowed to collect fossicking material?" and the only allowable way to do that is by hand operated tools that are defined in the Act.
so...throwing water by hand into a banjo or rocker to collect alluvial gold (fossicking material) would be OK (hand operated)
- feeding dirt and alluvial gold by hand into a sluice would be OK (hand operated)[/*]
- feeding dirt and alluvial gold into a hand operated pan would be OK (hand operated)[/*]
- detecting for gold using a hand operated detector- allowed specifically in the act[/*]
- just digging dirt and manually sorting by dry pan or dry blow would be OK (if hand operated)
[/*]
using a powered spiral wheel to separate gold from black sand is NOT OK as it is using machinery to "collect fossicking material"
It's pretty clear to me that using pump operated high bankers is not allowed under the ACT and I concede that this is a 180 degree about face from me.
cheers
Mike
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Hi mike
They do make it a little hard for the average jo blow to understand....I sometimes wonder if they had done it on purpose...im just glad ive had 2 co workers that are retired geologists to explain to me how the act is interpreted....but once you get it....its pretty plan and simple......
They do make it a little hard for the average jo blow to understand....I sometimes wonder if they had done it on purpose...im just glad ive had 2 co workers that are retired geologists to explain to me how the act is interpreted....but once you get it....its pretty plan and simple......
Sounds like another rim job....
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.mmmmmmmm not so tasty.
When you start to read the QLD Act and start your interpretation with a focus on 'alluvial gold ' (The fossicking material)
it then says you can only collect fossicking material by hand.
That's what the Mines guys are saying... so we need to ask the Question...What are you trying to get? Answer....alluvial gold (strictly defined in the Act as "fossicking material")
Question... what methods does the Act allow to collect "fossicking material"..... Answer...... ONLY hand operated tools.
I think we have all been saying...because we dig dirt by hand we can then process it any way we want to get the gold. and that's where we are all wrong....as getting to the gold is only specifically allowed by hand operated or listed methods.
In other words..the dirt with gold in it is NOT 'fossicking material'...it is only the alluvial gold that is the 'fossicking material'.
Think of this another way... fishing...
lets say the Act say you can only catch fish by hand.
we drop a bucket into water pull it straight up and there is both water and a fish in the bucket ....we can still only get the fish out of the bucket by hand...we cant use a pump to remove the water to get at the fish ....now does it make sense?
Interesting debate
it then says you can only collect fossicking material by hand.
That's what the Mines guys are saying... so we need to ask the Question...What are you trying to get? Answer....alluvial gold (strictly defined in the Act as "fossicking material")
Question... what methods does the Act allow to collect "fossicking material"..... Answer...... ONLY hand operated tools.
I think we have all been saying...because we dig dirt by hand we can then process it any way we want to get the gold. and that's where we are all wrong....as getting to the gold is only specifically allowed by hand operated or listed methods.
In other words..the dirt with gold in it is NOT 'fossicking material'...it is only the alluvial gold that is the 'fossicking material'.
Think of this another way... fishing...
lets say the Act say you can only catch fish by hand.
we drop a bucket into water pull it straight up and there is both water and a fish in the bucket ....we can still only get the fish out of the bucket by hand...we cant use a pump to remove the water to get at the fish ....now does it make sense?
Interesting debate
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You haven't finished fossicing.......Until you have removed the gold/sapphires /Agate. .ect......from the gravel...
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This is a reply I received from Justin Fritz.
I have received your enquiry below.
The Fossicking Act 1994 states in section 38 that the use of machinery is prohibited and restricts a licenced person to hand tools.
So the view we take is that you can use any devices that are powered by human power. Therefore so long as you are pumping the water for a sluice etc by hand (or foot pedal etc) and rotating/shaking anything by hand then that would comply with the Act.
Definitely no petrol driven pumps are permitted under the Act.
Thanks
Justin Fritz
Mining Registrar
Field & Land Access
Authorised Officer
Department of Natural Resources & Mines
30 Nicholson Street, Dalby
PO Box 589, Dalby Qld 4405
t: +61 7 4531 8517
e: [email protected]
Customer Service Centre 13 25 23
www.dnrm.qld.gov.au
I have received your enquiry below.
The Fossicking Act 1994 states in section 38 that the use of machinery is prohibited and restricts a licenced person to hand tools.
So the view we take is that you can use any devices that are powered by human power. Therefore so long as you are pumping the water for a sluice etc by hand (or foot pedal etc) and rotating/shaking anything by hand then that would comply with the Act.
Definitely no petrol driven pumps are permitted under the Act.
Thanks
Justin Fritz
Mining Registrar
Field & Land Access
Authorised Officer
Department of Natural Resources & Mines
30 Nicholson Street, Dalby
PO Box 589, Dalby Qld 4405
t: +61 7 4531 8517
e: [email protected]
Customer Service Centre 13 25 23
www.dnrm.qld.gov.au
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