Need some advice

[DALEO8]

Hi people,
I was out today doing some some research I found an old shaft in the scrub cleared myself a nice area around the shaft for saftey got my detector out and the ground just went berserk so many signals the shaft was apparently sunk for gold but there was melted lead everywhere all around the shaft bit minimal in the mullock picked at least 2kg of this material up just by sight it's very heavy looks and feels like lead I have heard of amalgum being around old mine sites and have been told to pick this up if I ever find it I was wondering if anyone knows much about it and what it looks like have taken some photos as best as I can these look and feel like lead very heavy just can not figure out why there would be so much laying around and what do the old timers use so much lead for.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Cheers

 

[grubstake]

Unfortunately, those are poor quality pics, mate - each one is pretty much 4MB of blur! Have those chunks been washed yet? They look dirty, which doesn't help with the ID.

 

[DALEO8]

I tried my best with the mobile phone. Nah they are unwashed just got home they look ok on my phone I'll give them a wash and post some more pics

 

[grubstake]

One possibility that comes to mind is that these were the innards of an old car battery and a bushfire has gone through the area and burnt/melted everything.

 

[DALEO8]

This is definitely a possibility the area was burnt in 2019

 

[Hawkear]

Probably surface appearance won't give you much to go on.
You will need to do a few mineral ID tests as detailed in another thread on this forum.
My opinion is not amalgam which is mercury and gold. I am not sure that lead can be alloyed with gold and certainly even if it is possible, it would not be a process that the old timers would have used anyway.
Specific gravity would sort that one out as lead has a SG of 11.34. Mercury 13.53 and Gold 19.32.
If you are still hoping amalgam (Mercury) you would be looking at a SG greater than 13.53.
More likely something else perhaps melted by a past bushfire.
My first ever detect ever was up in the old rubbish dump at Gooseberry Hill in Dunolly. It was a lump of metal which looked to my (then excited) mind the shape of a real nugget. Scratching the surface revealed the now all too familiar disappointing colour of lead.

 

[XLOOX]

Weird !

It would be fairly unusual to find amalgam next to a shaft as the ore from the shaft would have to be finely crushed to a sand before the mercury was added to amalgamate the gold. The crushing & amalgamation both normally occured at a stamp battery or other mill near some water rather than right next to the shaft. Not impossible though, I know of one battery that was only 30m from the shaft .

Mind you I'm equally at a loss to explain 2kg of lead looking like the bits in your photo though so lets keep an open mind.

Firstly Safety - If you suspect it might be amalgam only handle it with rubber gloves on. Whilst the silver/mercury amalgam in your teeth was (relatively) safe, it would have been made at a ratio so there was no free mercury whereas amalgam from gold mining will always contain free mercur, even if you cant see it because it has oxidised or has dirt stuck on it.

Secondly avoid heating it as it will release mercury vapour which is really really bad news.

Mercury-Gold amalgam is much softer than lead and normally crumbly.

Test 1 : Bend it - if it bends it is most likely to be lead - amalgam will break.

Test 2 : hit it with a hammer - if if dents and cracks/crumbles then might be amalgam . if just dents then much more likely to be lead.

Test 3: cut a thinner piece say 5mm thick with a sharp knife - if it is relatively difficult to cut & leaves one smooth silver cut surface than probably lead. If it cuts easily & squeaks as you cut it ( remember the noise of gettng a filling?) and the silver surfaces are seperated by lines or crap then it may be amalgam.

Test 4 Density : SG of gold ~19 mercury SG ~14 . Amalgam will be about 50/50 so roughly 16-17. Lead is SG 11 - a lot lower.

Cut up a piece so it is a say 50g of "pure"metal ie minimal dirt and look up the SG test post involving weighing in & out of water.

have fun & stay safe.

 

[DALEO8]

Thanks for your advice, I knew there had to be some good knowledge on this subject on here I'll give these tests a go tomorrow I worked as a laboratory technition for a few years so these tests I should be able to perform no problem some of the smaller flat pieces I found that resembled little nuggets seemed to break pretty easy but does not explain the few larger pieces. I also think that if it's lead it could of been melted or softened at least and picked up some of the surface material it was laying on giving it a conglomerate like appearance I'm sure a wash and a few test will reveal it's iidentity.

 

[XLOOX]

Let us know how you go - it would be interesting to find out.

Also if it looks like it might be amalgam then go to a gold dealer and get an XRF done.

Might cost you $100 but if it is 2kg amalgam that might be 1kg gold so ~33oz ~$80k so dont muck around trying to retort it yourself, just pay the refiner & smile all the way to the bank

 

[DALEO8]

Hi guys just an update from yesterday.
Cleaned up all the pieces with a brush and water and elbow length chemical gloves they cleaned up nice with some improvement in its formations
On top they are white and yellow heavy sulphide in spots and underneath they are dark and rough with a lead like material and what looks like little squares of this material and and found some suspicious little rounds balls attached to this weighed all the specimans bout 870g of loose stuff and could not get a weight on the larger piece scales kept blanking out but did some of what I had been recommended,
I broke a piece off and examined
it with a magnifying glass very rough and lots of minerals inside silver light everywhere cut a piece with a sharp knife it cut like weird really weird, bent a piece and it snapped easy, did not hit it with a hammer but I would definitely say it would just shatter so did not try that one ( very brittle and rough) but noticeable fleks inside.
But now comes the good news (For me) when I did some basic wet and dry weight measurements I noticed as soon as I submerged them they lit up like mercury!! In veins and blobs in the mass so found a small piece that was not too rough to reduce air bubbles and dry weight was 20.20g it had visible mercury on it as I suspended it in a plastic cup but due to the amount of water I needed to suspend it was close to the max of the scales of 200g but managed with 179g of water taared the scales of and attached a piece of cotton to the same piece with a wet weight of 4.20 but not sure if my scales were accurate and taring was correct as I'm try to do it alone ( I'll do some more accurate SG tests later on with a helping hand from the Mrs.
Attached are some more average pics of the cleaned material my phone is not the best.
But I'm optimistic now.

 

[Greg_wilson]

I’m going with lead not amalgam. Definitely shows signs of heat or fire at some stage, visible appearance of having melted in some spots.

 

[user 4386]

Hi guys just an update from yesterday.
Cleaned up all the pieces with a brush and water and elbow length chemical gloves they cleaned up nice with some improvement in its formations
On top they are white and yellow heavy sulphide in spots and underneath they are dark and rough with a lead like material and what looks like little squares of this material and and found some suspicious little rounds balls attached to this weighed all the specimans bout 870g of loose stuff and could not get a weight on the larger piece scales kept blanking out but did some of what I had been recommended,
I broke a piece off and examined
it with a magnifying glass very rough and lots of minerals inside silver light everywhere cut a piece with a sharp knife it cut like weird really weird, bent a piece and it snapped easy, did not hit it with a hammer but I would definitely say it would just shatter so did not try that one ( very brittle and rough) but noticeable fleks inside.
But now comes the good news (For me) when I did some basic wet and dry weight measurements I noticed as soon as I submerged them they lit up like mercury!! In veins and blobs in the mass so found a small piece that was not too rough to reduce air bubbles and dry weight was 20.20g it had visible mercury on it as I suspended it in a plastic cup but due to the amount of water I needed to suspend it was close to the max of the scales of 200g but managed with 179g of water taared the scales of and attached a piece of cotton to the same piece with a wet weight of 4.20 but not sure if my scales were accurate and taring was correct as I'm try to do it alone ( I'll do some more accurate SG tests later on with a helping hand from the Mrs.
Attached are some more average pics of the cleaned material my phone is not the best.
But I'm optimistic now.

Good go see someone trying to determine properties. Note that SG only works with pure mineral fragments and I can see at least three different things in your samples. Best to break off tiny bits of single substances and determine properties on them (also overcomes the limitation of weight for the scales).

My guess is that some others here are correct - that it is something like bits of slate that are held together by molten lead melted in a fire. Are you in a gold-mining area? Perhaps people have been throwing rubbish down the shaft and an old battery got left near the collar. Just guessing....

 

[XLOOX]

For your sake I really hope it is amalgam but I havent seen amalgam naturally form plates. Maybe it does.

In the Au:Hg amalgam I have played with the crystals are microscopic & held together with free mercury. You could literally squeeze the mercury out by hand and have it run in a silver river between your (gloved) fingers and you were left with an amorphous dull grey semi squidgy squeaky heavy lump that still contained free mercury.

fingers crossed

 

[user 4386]

For your sake I really hope it is amalgam but I havent seen amalgam naturally form plates. Maybe it does.

In the Au:Hg amalgam I have played with the crystals are microscopic & held together with free mercury. You could literally squeeze the mercury out by hand and have it run in a silver river between your (gloved) fingers and you were left with an amorphous dull grey semi squidgy squeaky heavy lump that still contained free mercury.

fingers crossed

The plates are almost certainly slate fragments, showing cleavage. I suspect the heavy mass is in the material holding them together, which in many places looks globular and even porous. Like melted lead.

 

[davsgold]

it would be very hard to believe there is any Mercury in that, it looks to have been heated/cooked by something and if any Mercury was ever present there originally it has long since evaporated, remember the old timers did not care they would just boil of the Mercury from there Amalgam in a pan

 

[DALEO8]

I’m going with lead not amalgam. Definitely shows signs of heat or fire at some stage, visible appearance of having melted in some spots.

Yeah it had defiantly been melted from a bushfire some pieces have visible ash/Coals attached

 

[DALEO8]

Good go see someone trying to determine properties. Note that SG only works with pure mineral fragments and I can see at least three different things in your samples. Best to break off tiny bits of single substances and determine properties on them (also overcomes the limitation of weight for the scales).

My guess is that some others here are correct - that it is something like bits of slate that are held together by molten lead melted in a fire. Are you in a gold-mining area? Perhaps people have been throwing rubbish down the shaft and an old battery got left near the collar. Just guessing....

Yeah I thought it requires some looking into at least if it is just melted lead I have cleaned most of it up out of the bush and cleaned the area up of any contaminated lead this spot was in very heavy scrub and did not look like it had seen many visitors recently.
defiantly in a gold mining area it does resemble melted lead a lot

 

[DALEO8]

For your sake I really hope it is amalgam but I havent seen amalgam naturally form plates. Maybe it does.

In the Au:Hg amalgam I have played with the crystals are microscopic & held together with free mercury. You could literally squeeze the mercury out by hand and have it run in a silver river between your (gloved) fingers and you were left with an amorphous dull grey semi squidgy squeaky heavy lump that still contained free mercury.

fingers crossed

I noticed when I submerged the small piece in water I looked like it contained mercury not visible to the naked eye dry but submerged in water and in the light it resembled liquid veins of very bright liquid like substance. It's very brittle but some pieces just look like melted lead. The plates makes me think it could just be an old battery too.

 

[DALEO8]

The plates are almost certainly slate fragments, showing cleavage. I suspect the heavy mass is in the material holding them together, which in many places looks globular and even porous. Like melted lead.

View attachment 4355

I it looks like old melted lead that has melted and picked up ash coals and ground material for sure

 

[DALEO8]

it would be very hard to believe there is any Mercury in that, it looks to have been heated/cooked by something and if any Mercury was ever present there originally it has long since evaporated, remember the old timers did not care they would just boil of the Mercury from there Amalgam in a pan

That is good to know I took extra caution handling just in case with chemical gloves I suppose even if it's lead you would not want to handle it to much. It looks like lead that has melted then picked up anything it touched and reformed on the ground