More on Bush Power

[condor22]

Just went out to check the Engel. As it is an older one with just a turn knob for temp control, it takes a couple of adjustments to get temp correct. Here's some info re what I noted. (I might add, the fridge is empty)

Fridge turned on at 1330, it is now 1450 so 1 hr 20 minutes since it got turned on. When I checked ambient at 1330, I had the car doors and tailgate open. I finished up at about 1350, closed the car up and came inside. The front windows are cracked about 1/8" and there is a windscreen sun reflector in place.

The fridge temp gauge is in the rear of the 4x4, but in the shade. It now reads 35.8 C and the Engel was at -0.8. My other temp gauge is showing outside shade temp at 26 C. I do have the Engel insulated cover on the outside of the fridge.

The 2 points of interest -

1. It's 10 C hotter in the car than ambient.
2. The Engel has dropped from 25 C to -0.8 in an hour (or less as I didn't check before now)

Next Thursday we have a forecast 40 C day, so I'm going to go out the night before (by 8pm), put some precooled water containers in the Engel, set it to 2 C night time setting. Then Thur morning, I'll note battery SOC, Engel Temp, ambient temp and inside the car temp. As well as volts n amps etc.

I'll then note the same info at 12 noon, 4 pm and 8 pm. So a 24 hour test. I'll post the info as it might surprise a few and confirm to others what they already know

 

[condor22]

Started setting up the Engel, Battery and Solar test in the 4x4 today for a 24 hour test starting tonight. I have put a small 5 lt jerry of water in the fridge along with 2 water bottles each 1 pt, so about 6 lt total. They were filled with cold tap water, which due to the outside temp are tepid not cold.

(Reminder - Engel is a 27 year old 30 lt with an insulated cover. Battery is a brand new 100 AH AGM, Solar panel is also new and 110 W and I won't be driving the car tomorrow.)

I connected the Engel to 240 VAC and turned it on at 12 noon. The temperature this afternoon where I am is about 35 C in the shade. My setup is about worst case scenario as the panel is flat mounted, the car is black, in full sun and the windows up. I've just checked how things are going (4 pm).

The Engel is sitting at 26 C and the temp in the car is at 54 C. Given the bulk of water and the car inside temp, I think the Engel is struggling to get cold. I'll wait till after dark to check it again as I will need to wait till the fridge is down to 2-4 C. Once it is, I'll put it on 12 V and begin the 24 hour check as it won't matter what time I start.

I think I should have switched the fridge on 240 VAC last night. After all, the things I want to know are;

1. Once at temp, how much net power in AH the Engel uses on 12V with the solar panel connected.
2. State of charge of the battery.
3. Will the fridge hold temperature in a closed car on a hot day.

Given the battery temp showed 45 C, I expect charging efficiency to drop off as well as panel output.

Stay tuned

 

[condor22]

Something wrong with the 240V to the Engel, not cooling well, seemed ok on 12V but taking a long time to get cold. I think the mass of water is too much when it's 54 C or more in the car.

So going to finish the wiring on the weekend to use the 5mm cable I got this morning and check everything out when it's not so hot,

Turned it off for now so no test, yet!........

 

[condor22]

Ok, so today is about 25C, humid, drizzle/rain, very overcast. Just finished replacing the 4mm cable with 5mm. Also made up a couple of supports to raise the panel to about 25-30 deg when camped. Also, a small angle to make a barrier in the cargo area so the solar controller and cctbrkr don't get damaged.

Once I finished the wiring on the panel, I checked the 240VAC operation - All OK.

Then I put the fridge on 12 VDC with the panel ON. At the start the inside temp of the fridge was 27 C, one hour later it was at 3 C. So nothing wrong with the fridge

That confirms to me that putting a 5 lt container of luke warm water in the fridge on a 37 C day and over 50 C in the car is not going to get cold in a hurry. So if I'm going to test it on a hot day, any fridge contents need to already be cold, lol.

BTW given the crappy weather conditions today, the panel was still putting 1.4 to 1.8 amps in. In the same respect, the fridge isn't working hard either. I already know that on a 25 C day the Engel averages 1 AH consumption.

 

[Ridge Runner]

That's is normal for any fridge not being able to cool down that amount of water in relation to the size of the cooling area, That's like putting 40 litres in to your empty 120L house fridge, It just won't cool it down within 24 hr maybe even 48 hours,

Doing a test like that you need to put the water in the House deep freeze because it has the Volume and it has other frozen items in it that will help cool the water, And the same with your Engel, If it had frozen food in it and it was set to freeze it would cool the water down, House hold freezers rarely ever have warmish food put in them and they almost always have some frozen food in them to assist with the cooling So it's a bit much to expect the Engel to do it, Snomaster maybe ? but no other brand could do it.

One test that would work is to cool the engel down to -18 and add a load of frozen food from the house freezer and then put some freshly bought meat in on top and see how long it takes to freeze but do that like you did before when it was over 50* in the car,

hope that helps.

J.

 

[Nightjar]

Condor,
Maybe I missed something, but did your Engel struggle to get down to running temperature while on 240V? If so, there may be a problem?
May I suggest Engels run on 240V from a portable generator have been know to blow a capacitor if the generator runs out of fuel. (Hunting)
***Never power your Engel from an engine driven generator if there is any chance you may run it out of fuel.***
They will still operate and chill/freeze on 12V when the 240V system is not functioning.

 

[condor22]

Thanks NJ, Engel has never been run from a genset. Like Ridge said, I think the volume of water and the hot day were the issue. It struggled on 240 and 12 volt. As I'm not going to be driving or starting the 4by engine until late Monday morning, I'll leave the Engel on solar until then. Then I'll switch it off until it's the same as ambient. When I'm not driving for 1/2 a day, I'll put it on 240 VAC to make sure it's working properly. Given it dropped from mid 20s to 3 odd degrees in an hour on battery today, I'd expect a similar result from mains power.

BTW the Engel is still running I checked it at 6.30 after 6.5 hours of running and the battery still showed 100% SOC and the fridge temp was 0.6 C. It is empty at the moment, so no large qty of warm water in it, lol.

Noon tomorrow will be 24 hours running, I'm expecting to see the fridge still at temp. However, I won't know what the battery SOC will be.

Given I started the fridge in the middle of the day it will be interesting to see if the panel has replaced overnight use as well as run the fridge. Normally the solar has the rest of the day to work so it may be later in the day. The main thing is that by the time solar stops working late arvo, the battery is full for the night run.

I would also hazard a guess that if the battery is ok, then normal food and drink content would be better due to the cold stored in it.

 

[condor22]

RR Before I fitted the Engel into the 4x4 8 yrs ago, I did keep it in the house as a beer "Fridge" in summer and a Soup "Freezer" in winter. All on 240 VAC mains.

However as it is a single zone 30 lt in the car and almost always on 12 VDC, I use it to carry cold drinks, lunch, milk, "dead horse" etc when prospecting, so it gets set to as near 2 C as I can.

Beer cans don't react well to -18

I do have a 129 lt fridge and freezer in the van. So I can take a frozen pie, sausage roll or even mini pizzas out in the morning. Put them in the Engel and cook em in the Travel Buddy for a hot lunch. Even when I go to town to shop, frigables and frozos go into the Engel at 2 C and are still frozen when I get back to camp an hour later.

PS I'm a winter prospector in VIC, so a hot lunch and coffee for lunch is the go. The beer is after, lol.

Until my next trip, all I can do is test the changes/additions. The true test will be out there for a few weeks.

 

[Ridge Runner]

RR Before I fitted the Engel into the 4x4 8 yrs ago, I did keep it in the house as a beer "Fridge" in summer and a Soup "Freezer" in winter. All on 240 VAC mains.

However as it is a single zone 30 lt in the car and almost always on 12 VDC, I use it to carry cold drinks, lunch, milk, "dead horse" etc when prospecting, so it gets set to as near 2 C as I can.

Beer cans don't react well to -18

I do have a 129 lt fridge and freezer in the van. So I can take a frozen pie, sausage roll or even mini pizzas out in the morning. Put them in the Engel and cook em in the Travel Buddy for a hot lunch. Even when I go to town to shop, frigables and frozos go into the Engel at 2 C and are still frozen when I get back to camp an hour later.

PS I'm a winter prospector in VIC, so a hot lunch and coffee for lunch is the go. The beer is after, lol.

Until my next trip, all I can do is test the changes/additions. The true test will be out there for a few weeks.

Yeah much like you I tried to put a heap of water in the fridge and it took a couple of days to bring it down to temp, Where if the fridge is full of cold bits they will drag the temp down of the items you put in there a lot quicker which is where they save power, I put less water in the fridge and it was 3 parts frozen it 2 hours, After all the messing about I ran the kitchen Tap and then measured the temp of the water and it was around 14*c even though it felt quite cold to the touch.

From what you describe with the Engel I have seen the same results from 6 other fridges So I think your Engel is running fine. :Y:

J.

 

[condor22]

2.30 pm - Checked the Engel - Now been on for 27 hours and running between 0.5 and 0.9 C constantly at every check. Checked the temp 8 times during that time, but obviously not overnight.

Current battery SOC is 100% @ 13.3 V So very happy with the solar. (The Engel was not cycling at the time of the check)

Before I turned everything off, I turned the Fridge up to run the compressor the battery monitor indicated a charge of +3.7 A with no change to voltage. I then turned the fridge off and the monitor read a charge of +0.8 A. I then turned the panel off and the fridge on and the load was -2.9 A.

So the fridge in normal operation draws 2.9 A @ 13.3 V.
The panel output is enough to run the fridge and a little more.
As the battery is full, the panel is trickling 0.8 A which is pretty well at Float as the voltage was 13.3.
Most importantly, the solar output is enough to run the fridge and recharge the battery easily each day, so the additional 6 AH I might use for the oven will also be catered for.

Turned it all off for now as in the next few days at a time when I'm not driving, I want to hook up 240 VAC to the Engel to make sure it works properly from mains. We have a few days of mild weather no hotter than 31 until next weekend.

 

[condor22]

Fridge was at 27 C at lunchtime, so put it on 240 VAC and empty. I checked it about 50 minutes later at 2.1 C.

So happy it works similarly to 12 VDC. Definitely what I put in it and the extreme temp, lol.

So all good

 

[condor22]

Have had the Engel running for a week in the rear of the 4x4. Fridge was empty, ambient on the first day was 31C and for the rest of the week low to mid 20s. Temp in the car was high 20s to mid 30s.

I haven't done much driving, 2 trips of about 30 minutes where the Redarc was charging. The rest of the time the auxiliary was on solar. I also noted that due to a tree near the car in the driveway, that the solar panel was in shade until noon every day.

The lowest SOC I noted was 77%, but by the end of the day back to 100%. Knowing that I will be driving more often when out detecting, I'm happy with the result, adding a panel is definitely worthwhile.

 

[Ridge Runner]

The quest to find the ultimate power system is a worry, My four days away gave me some good results.

It's good you finally got it worked out, Well done. :Y:

 

[Ridge Runner]

I have just been trying to see how long I can run my Fridge in Freezer mode set to -12*c and it has been running for over 35 hours and the batteries are still reading 12.57v, I then did a load test using my digital tester and it says 12.57v @ 3.52 mOhms, The SOH = 99% and the CCA has dropped down to 794cca, The battery is rated at 800cca but they normally have a bit more than that in them,

Being able to see the SOH is a great feature I think being able to see the state of Charge would be a bonus to have as well, I think I might look for a meter that does both, Or is SOH telling how much charge is in the battery,

What makes it confusing is that my CCA is normally a fair bit higher than standard and the Voltage is higher than the normal 12.7v, All the figures are correct and accurate, and these batteries really hold their voltage when they have been taken off the Charger, Power wise these have to be the best batteries I have ever bought, 36/48 hours later it is nothing to see them holding well over 13v.

J.

 

[Nightjar]

RR, It's great that your batteries are holding up during your tests. However, (may stand corrected), no Oz prospector/camper would head bush these days and not put their batteries on charge. ie: My batteries are good for 35+ hours so why bother charging them while away?
Somewhere some day your snags are going to be thawed and your beer warm. :argh:

 

[Ridge Runner]

RR, It's great that your batteries are holding up during your tests. However, (may stand corrected), no Oz prospector/camper would head bush these days and not put their batteries on charge. ie: My batteries are good for 35+ hours so why bother charging them while away?
Somewhere some day your snags are going to be thawed and your beer warm. :argh:

First things first, I got 80kph winds here in the city, and If I open the fridge me snags are gunna end up 5ks up the track

Yeah I wouldn't head off without charging them either I just wanted to know which ones are best to run the fridge,

A while back I hit a problem and didn't know how to find the answer and that meter I bought a while back solved that problem, Which then opened up a whole new set of issues, but there's one thing for sure, The more you learn about batteries the less you know because every bit of info opens up another set of unanswered questions,

So what's the real world use of all this Crap ?? absolutely nothing,, But it has kept me amused during the lockdown and kept my mind off of the fact that I haven't seen anyone I know since the middle of February, If I had broke the Law I would be out on Parole by now, and here I am all locked up and I ain't done no wrong 8.( 8.( 8.( :awful: :awful: :awful:

PS, I'll put the frozen Snags in the beer, It'll cool down the beer and warm up the snags :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[condor22]

To be honest, although many do it, I wouldn't run a fridge from a CCA battery, only a Deep Cycle.

But, talking about CCA - My 4x4 has a digital voltmeter in one of the dash sub menus. When I first got the car (new) it regularly read 14.5 V. I've noticed lately it's running at 14.9 V. So I firstly checked the voltage this morning before I turned the car over at 11.6 V. So I then went to a mate and he put a battery check voltmeter on it. In that, it scans the battery voltage 50 times a second and will hold the minimum voltage scanned. So IGN on before cranking it was 11.5 V, it started immediately and rose to 15 V before settling at 14.9 V. He is a specialist I might add, and he said if the battery went below 9 V during cranking that's a good indicator of "cactus" battery. Mine went to 10 V. Verdict on the way out and also why the alternator is holding it at a higher voltage than 4 years ago.

I'm heading out with the caravan in a couple of days and not replacing the battery, but I am taking a 12500 mAH 500 CCA Lithium jump starter just in case. I'm probably gonna need to buy a new battery soon tho'.

I've been meaning to go out and check if there is any power "bleed" and how much, so tomorrow morning out with the ammeter.

 

[Ridge Runner]

To be honest, although many do it, I wouldn't run a fridge from a CCA battery, only a Deep Cycle.

But, talking about CCA - My 4x4 has a digital voltmeter in one of the dash sub menus. When I first got the car (new) it regularly read 14.5 V. I've noticed lately it's running at 14.9 V. So I firstly checked the voltage this morning before I turned the car over at 11.6 V. So I then went to a mate and he put a battery check voltmeter on it. In that, it scans the battery voltage 50 times a second and will hold the minimum voltage scanned. So IGN on before cranking it was 11.5 V, it started immediately and rose to 15 V before settling at 14.9 V. He is a specialist I might add, and he said if the battery went below 9 V during cranking that's a good indicator of "cactus" battery. Mine went to 10 V. Verdict on the way out and also why the alternator is holding it at a higher voltage than 4 years ago.

I'm heading out with the caravan in a couple of days and not replacing the battery, but I am taking a 12500 mAH 500 CCA Lithium jump starter just in case. I'm probably gonna need to buy a new battery soon tho'.

I've been meaning to go out and check if there is any power "bleed" and how much, so tomorrow morning out with the ammeter.

Well after 48/72 hours after they have been removed from the charger mine are reading 13.3v +, The reason mine have a CCA reading is because they are Duel Purpose Deep Cycle Batteries, being 115Ah 800cca XD31's with posts and a set of bolts on the top, They are 3 years old next month and they are holding up well, They are factory rated to a depth of discharge to 30% @ 600 cycles meaning that I could if needed use 70% of their power but I have need used more than 40% and I have kept them full all the time and the longest I have left them fully charged without charging is about 4 to 5 weeks and I only did that once.

Their CCA rating is 800 and one reads over 907+ and the other reads 870 +/- 2 or 3 cca, :inlove: :inlove:

 

[Ridge Runner]

This past week I recharged two of my batteries and I ran the fridge set to -18*c and it did quite well over a 48 hour period so then I repacked the fridge and then recharged the batteries back up and set the fridge to -10*c and let it settle for 24 hours so the temp matched the temp of the food inside and then I ran the fridge for 33 hours I still had over 12.884v, The high voltage of these batteries really has an impact when it comes to extending the run times, Now at 42 hours the Voltage is still above 12.645v,

Next test I want to do is see how long it will run @ 4*c and then at 2*c, My AGM battery is impressive how fast it charges using the smart charger but the run time is a lot less because the voltage is a lot lower,

 

[condor22]

Just got back from a weeks bush camping on the Yorke Peninsula. Gave the solar panel on the 4x4 a workout for a week running the Engel at an average of 1.5 C.
It worked great, the voltage never went below 12.7 and I checked it morning noon n night, lol.

My only regret is that I didn't work as well as the 4by electrics. Had to come home a little early with a crook gut. But it highlights the benefit of towing a loo in the van.

I camped near Balgowan, no Optus phone signal, no Telstra internet, barely a Telstra phone signal and only with an external antenna. Couldn't even get a TV signal, so out came the Satking, otherwise I might have had a lot of reading, lol.

Worst part, no gold there, but it beats lockdown. I did detect a beach, but found nothing but rust !!!