As the name says, thickas. I got a 4500 about 2 years after they where released. My mate i do most of my detecting got his earlier. Through all the trips,conversations,testing and effort he put into me to help me understand the machine is greatly appreciated and will never be forgoten. Last weekend after more effort from my mate the penny finally droped. After spending half the day playing with setting again i finally got the machine to find a target I knew was there (thanks again mate) that I previously could not hear. I have never been happier and wait to get out again. I also think some of the articals i have read on this forum helped as well. It goes to show the true value of freinds. Lets go detecting.