Hot Rocks and Tin Foil

[oldtimerROB]

The Impact gives a very distinct low tone on positive hot rocks and a low and sometimes higher pitched tone on rusted iron in the all metal mode with disc.set to 01 or 02 and which this option is unavailable in the new Kruzer Multi.There are sometimes smoother smaller stones (1.5 inches long and oblong shaped) which emit a high signal.I have busted these up but are dark red inside and may contain iron and other metals. The negative hot rocks give a high tone but easily identified by an ID of 97.
The notch filter works in the disc. modes only and can be easily set up to mask tin foil. The ID of all the foils I have dug up is constant at 18 and is surprising given some are tin and others alum foil.The notch filter is then set up to mask in the 14 to 22 range.This low ID means that any gold nuggets will theoretically not be masked as well as the ID of gold is in the 30 to 40 range in DI3 and we would hope that this is so. There is a legitimate concern that using the notch filter to mask the foils would also mask iron oxide encrusted gold nuggets, but in that case the Impact is so fast in recovery it would give a simultaneous double low/high signal and the high signal would still be heard.Whilst obtaining the ID of foil for the purpose of setting the notch filter I got a simultaneous low/high signal and found a rusted nail and foil in the same hole. I want to stress these are only my particular observations whilst using the Impact and others may have different views and opinions,but just thought I would share my experiences in the hope they may help somebody and also that this somebody would contribute further information on the subject on this forum to help us further.

 

[Jarrod84]

Dont forget OTR that even those of us with gpx's still dig the odd big hole for ground noise. There is a process to identify hot rocks but I wont go into it here.

I've found 40+ bits of gold this year and less than 5 bits of aluminum foil so I'm not sure sure how you find so much.

You seem to spend a lot of time detecting and not bagging the impact but I'd really love to see you try an sdc/GPX if you planned to do a lot more prospecting in the future. You might be surprised at how much easier it could make life.

I know someone who recently bought an impact to chase gold and contacted me for some help finding gold (hence why I'm reading this thread). Hopefully I'll get the chance to help him out and I'll do some tests with different size and shapes of gold and I'll post up my findings.

 

[oldtimerROB]

Hey Jarro,No it wasn't ground noise,it was a very deep and sharp signal which Idug up to 20 inches depth. Another one 50 meters away on the side of the same hill which I dug to 12 inches and still getting a sharp signal. I need to go back there and reset the settings to eliminate false signals if that's what they are.. Decreasing the frequency from 20 Khz and increasing the gain was one suggestion I got.With the Impact there are so many choices like adjusting the ISAT and/or discrimination and the the gain and/or frequency. Then there is the option of using the COG mode which I did not use as I was using DEEP and DI3. COG mode overloads on the hot spots like all the other modes. The all metal mode did not pick up these signals.I never used a GPX but heard one near me wailing away at all the ground noise in a particular hot gully where I was detecting at Havelock. I read reports that the GPZ also overloads on these hot spots which are not that common even in the GT.I did get some ground noise initially when I first started using it but that was because I was not on auto ground balance mode but manual and I was not re balancing every 10 minutes or so in changing ground.
I have only used the Impact for a total of 40 hours over two winters due to the Starwagon is not fitted out for camping and it gets too cold overnight without a wood stove.I am going to Russia for 3 years to our log cabin in the forest where we have 100 wolves which come to visit us starting on the first heavy snowfall in November every winter. I want to come back and take up detecting again full time and as being active and mobile is the secret to being pain free in the joints.This year I got too soft living the city life and paying the price. I know where there are large nuggets only 2 feet deep and I reckon with a pick and shovel I could find several 2 oz nuggets in a day.Only problem is I need a willing young pair of hands and I only have a lazy daughter.The stakes are so high I will only accept help from family members.

 

[oldtimerROB]

I forgot to add to use the GEN (all metal) mode if you are chasing the small bits under 0.5 gram. It is more sensitive on very small gold and shallow ground. Set the disc. to 01 or 02 to hear the positive hot rocks.The default setting is 00.Negative ones give an ID of 97.Some of the worn and smooth small hot rocks will give a high pitched signal,but I only have found a few of them compared to hundreds of positive hotrocks.
It is advantageous to use the auto ground balance mode with GEN which does not require intermittent rebalancing. Thus false signals will be reduced to a minimum if any.I cant remember getting any in the all metal mode.Auto is not recommended for use in the discrimination modes.
Deep and DI3 modes will go much deeper on larger targets but you have to use manual ground balancing every 10 minutes in high mineralised ground.These modes are also used for masking rusted iron using the tone break or for tin foil using the notch filter.I have found two of my favorite areas were lousy with tin foil where I found nuggets in the past and a mate found a one Kg nugget and the tin foil is on unworked ground next to surfaced areas. Also a top area for coins where I went near Castlemaine was lousy with foil but the campers over Easter made us quickly leave.
I agree that using a PI for prospecting is the way to go if you can afford the extra $5000 to buy one as it will go deeper on pickers than what the GEN on the Impact will go and thus find more gold.But the Impact,s GEN is extremely stable in very highly mineralised ground and can quickly identify hot rocks.The Impact has brawn too and the DEEP mode can go deep in 80% of the GT and DI3 in 100%.In the remaining 20% one needs to learn to adjust the default settings for the occasional false signal or use the COG mode.
The Impact is more suited to the hobbyist rather than to the professional full time prospector but keep in mind it is the only VLF detector which can deliver the performance needed in very highly mineralised ground.The CTX does not come anywhere near the Impact for hot ground and that has been proven in tests on Youtube in Australian goldfields comparing both detectors.In hot ground it quickly goes off balance and needs ages to again re balance. The Kruzer Multi is somewhere between the Racer 2 and The Impact for performance but is waterproof.The new Equinox 800 is still to be evaluated as no reports are in yet.
I have got used to detecting in the silent disc. modes or in the threshold mode and I don't know if I could get used to using a PI,so I am quite happy with the Impact.I expect to buy a Nokta IM 40 cm coil when I come back to cover more ground and to find the types of nuggets I am looking for.

 

[ProspectorPete]

The new Equinox 800 is still to be evaluated as no reports are in yet.

I've seen more reports and photo's of the Equinox finding gold with the standard 11" and new 6" coils than I have of the Impact Rob so not sure why you make the above statement.

 

[hAyyoUinAU]

I had a Makro Gold Racer, and the only thing it was good for in our mineralised gold fields was clearing Golden Orb's spider webs.
The best thing I ever did for myself was to sell it and get myself an SDC. The rest is history from there.

The Equinox 800 is a proven machine, and already has found gold for many people. (In tough ground)

Maybe in Europe and mild ground the Makro was okay. But in the end, a machine that can go into places others can not go always has the advantage.

But, if you can find gold with whatever machine you are using, then keep doing what you are doing.

 

[oldtimerROB]

Well I browsed some forums yesterday incl.USA ones and the posts say it is still an unknown quantity.So that's my excuse to the general impression I gave.I am not an expert on the Equinox but will try and look up on reports you are referring to. Why it has found more gold than the Impact is because there is a massive resistance in this country against the Impact for some reason,hence very few Impacts sold in this country.I know this because the report I first gave on the Impact back in May 2017 called "Impact Tame,s Havelock Goldfield" has been 100% ignored on this forum. Equinox is a later model so I would expect it to be better as it should.Thanks for the update.
Also if anyone is offended by the comment that the Impact is far more stable than the CTX; I got that info from the Comic Chefs on Youtube and specifically quizzed them two months ago about the relative performance of the Impact versus the CTX on our goldfields, as they were testing both detectors on a video they made in highly mineralised ground.

 

[oldtimerROB]

I was referring to the Racer 2 and a statement which Nenad made on his Kruzer Multi thread that the new Kruzer is somewhere between the Racer 2 and the Impact in performance. The Makro Racer was the first Racer produced.Thanks for the info and good to inform members not to buy them although few would consider buying such an old model.

 

[ctxkid]

having used a CTX on a coupla so called gold fields around the area (anyone that knows wattle flat ?? just one of the "fields") with 17 inch coil, have never had the thing play up 8) 8)
i get it out of the car , turn it on (coin mode, full auto) while i get my kit on sometimes hitting the noise cancel whilst doing so :Y:
once i'm ready , do a ground balance then move on, no more to see
have found as ground/soil makeup changes i do ground balance a lot more , than say maybe on a park doing broad acre :Y:
my theory is that the lads at minelab made and programed the things for us to use in auto i am still learning what it tells me, most sniffs bring new things in it's behavior
after 10 months i have found no need to change nothing bar using large number tid on the detect screen

and oldtimerrob next time you are around bathurst way , give me a pm , bring your makro racer , i will meet you at wattle flat (patch coord by pm) an i'll show you how to use a CTX :Y: :Y: and we can compare

 

[Goldtarget]

Phew. ..better pace myself here.

What you need to keep in mind OTR is there is no machine, vlf or other, that stands out over any other. The reason lies in the ground conditions, gold type, operating skill, and to a lesser degree, gold orientation, climate, environmental issues such as emi, thunderstorms, and trash. All in all I'm surprised blokes find regular gold at all, as silly as that sounds, it kind of rings true, after all most areas have seen electronic prospecting from the 70s onwards, and each year the tech gets better, and the numbers grow.

Comparisons of detection ability of machine vs machine written by various authors over various forums is helpful, but hardly definitive. What works for you in Victoria may be useless in WA, what you find in winter in Wedderburn may be useless to a bloke in summer in the Whipstick. The point I'm making is that really, the longer you look at it, the more you realise all the advice and comparison in the world doesn't prove or disprove a machines capabilities. What you get out of your machine on your ground on any given day is far more relevant than endless comparisons.

Any way mate all the best for a few rattles in the jar hey, I know if you swing it long enough in the right places your every chance to get a few, big or small.

Cheers.

 

[oldtimerROB]

OldGT.I don,t know about rattles in the jar-the only thing I am rattling at the moment is my jaw,but nice thought.If you know any oldtimers you must know we like to flap our toothless gums and discuss all matters of prospecting. In the fifties all the old miners used to conjugate on major corners every day at Castlemaine for a yarn and my father used to proudly show me around when I was a 10 year old boy.Thus I am on this forum and I hope you don't begrudge me for doing a bit of chin wagging..I know the difference in the changing mineralisation starting from the low stuff South of Ballarat right up to the very difficult ground of Wedderburn and how my detector responds to all the major areas in the GT.I've only done 10 hours prospecting this year and a couple digging using my new $20 dream pick.Detectors are like picks,you can pay $20 for a great pick and save the $180 difference by not going to a Miners Den.Same with detectors; you can find a real cheap gem which does the job and save $5000.I started out being serious about finding gold and still am but my wife got quickly discouraged after 20 hours detecting because we had nothing to show for all our suffering camping out in the freezing weather without heating at our age. I never prospect in the summer.Winter rains can affect the ground and give lots of ground noises on some detectors but not mine. A CTX will work fine in low mim. ground and you can find some areas in Victoria like that.I make no apologies if the Impact can handle the rough stuff in the Golden Triangle.Cheers and thanks for your discussion.

 

[oldtimerROB]

ctxkid. I would love to come to Wattle Flat and meet you with my Impact., but going overseas soon for up to 3 years.Buying a caravan when we get back and plan to hit the Vic. goldfields in comfort and free camp and go north in the winter as well.I don't know the ground conditions there but but I would be very surprised if you have very highly mineralised ground. Cheers, Rob.

 

[oldtimerROB]

I have been on the Minelab site about the Nox 800 and shocked to see 42 pages there. A couple of blokes in Central NSW have them and using them on mullock heaps and found some small stuff in what I expect is low mineralisation ground. I haven't been able to find how the Nox performes in the Northern goldfields of the GT like Inglewood and Wedderburn.

 

[ctxkid]

ctxkid. I would love to come to Wattle Flat and meet you with my Impact., but going overseas soon for up to 3 years.Buying a caravan when we get back and plan to hit the Vic. goldfields in comfort and free camp and go north in the winter as well.I don't know the ground conditions there but but I would be very surprised if you have very highly mineralised ground. Cheers, Rob.

i would luv it too

be prepared for a surprise as anyone bar none who has been to the common will confirm it is second only to WA (my opinion) for hot rock (iron stone)
so on ya way north chasing the sun, call by
don't forget ya racer nor ya impact

 

[Heatho]

I've detected much worse spots than WF for hotrocks, though WF is very hot ground and has a lot of magnetic mineralisation as well.

Difficult spot to detect.

 

[user 7268]

In the fifties all the old miners used to conjugate on major corners every day at Castlemaine for a yarn
OTRob ..................... probably saw you there...................... I would have been pedalling my army jeep up the foot path and one of the major corners is still there :Y:
Looked at it every day whilst at school across the corner ................... Tech school after the old high school became such. Oh and now it's a shopping mall :Y:
Off topic but hey brightens the string up.

 

[oldtimerROB]

Thanks Bogger for the beaut photo of Stoneman's Bookstore. Walked past it only last month to visit the dentist. Known as Forrest Creek,then Mount Alexander Diggings.Gold first found in July 1851 at Specimen Gully by Christopher Peters shephard and hut keeper and was ridiculed for finding fools gold as no one believed him,and the gold was thrown away.
We stood on the NE corner of Barkers and Mostyn Streets and I recall there was a paddock across the road in 1954 where they used to fly model airplanes which is now Victory Park.A lot of the miners were returned soldiers so that spot was popular as the Returned Soldiers Assembly Rooms were just across the street and were opened on Anzac Day 1921. Notable Residents Robert O Hara Burke,Sir Harry Lawson-Victorian Premier and Ron Barassi from Guilford.
Last Easter were were in Lyttleton Street looking for the Mechanics Hall as every town had one and the old building between the Shire Offices and the Magistrates Court had a corner stone with Castlemaine Technical School chiselled into it with a 1920,s date.

 

[oldtimerROB]

ctxkid. No I don,t own a Racer.In Feb. 2017 I wanted to buy a detector.I had the option of buying the Nokta Gold Plus or waiting 3 months for the Impact to arrive in Australia.I chose the Impact as its design was similar to the Racer 2.The Nokta Gold had a menu on the side and unpractical, and a more complicated menu system compared to the Impact.When you are on really hot ground the ID numbers are unreliable with wide fluctuations so you can use the notch filter and tone break to mask out unwanted rubbish.It has 2/3/4/99 tones.The 99 tones may give a gold tone but I haven't looked into it as using it drove me crackers. Dunolly area and the hillsides down from the reefs and the tops of some hills have the highest concentration of the 3 different types of hot rocks which I mentioned of any area I have been in the GT. But they are quickly with 100% reliability identified by the distinct tone on the Impact, so I don,t think any surprises for me in Bathurst. The ISAT settings on the Impact can be adjusted up to 15 I think and only 5 on the Nokta Gold Plus I think going by memory,so that is a big increase.The ISAT is used to eliminate false signals in hot ground but the downside is that it will reduce the depth of the machine.That is why I am reluctant to use it at high settings for general prospecting. The COG mode has it set at 10 or 15 as default so I will use it next time I get a false signal and save digging down 20 inches.False signals are sharp signals and I think not to be confused with ground noise which give a more broader signal and usually caused by an unbalanced machine moving into changing ground.But it is an iffy area which every prospector has his own ideas. I only experienced these sharp and very deep signals once and perplexed at what they are but in hindsight should have increased the ISAT or used the COG mode at the time but will be more prepared in future. The Impact has manual/Auto/tracking modes for controlling ground balance with tracking mode only recommended for the all metal mode.

 

[user 7268]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Rob many moons have passed young man . Remember the Tech school you speak of became the Senior Tech and the old High school became the Junior Tech. I can remember when the market was operating and then after they closed it down they had the big props for years holding up the walls. I used to buy my ferrets at the animal market behind it.
In Victory Park there is a memorial to an Allan Kruger .................. best shot I have ever seen with a rifle. It had to be a Bruno :Y: Going to the Tech and being across the road from the shops ................ we used to jump out the window and bolt over and buy lollies and then jump back into class. Of course one can't forget the Western oval .................. where everyone went for a smoke at recess
Apologies to the OP for the diversion and perhaps a string should be started for topics such as this ? There must be a hive of information in many of the old gunnies here that were around and knew many different areas before they became spoiled or of historical value ? Example is the Garfield wheel .................. we used to sit on top of it and eat our lunch whilst out ferreting ............ you would probably go to jail if you did that now ?
All one can really add here ...................... wish I'd had a detector back then ................ would have made a motsa

 

[oldtimerROB]

Hey Bogger. yes we had some beaut times at the Maine.I did some detecting with a Whites 5000D and 16 inch coil around Castlemaine,Chewton and Muckleford in the 1980,s without much luck,even where the big nugget was found I think in Crocodile Gully near Fryerstown. I had a Yamaha IT175 to explore and get around the tight and hilly tracks.Saw signs people were living rough in the bush but probably not prospectors.Someone built a wooden house on Crown land in the bush past the old Gower schoolhouse but it was pulled down after 3 months. I also used to go bushwalking in the maze of tracks North of Chewton and would have got lost but had my reliable "GPS" with me-a trusty sheep dog.She would always lead me out the way we had come in by following our scent. I used to bushwalk the back country from Irishtown to Hepburn and back-an unspoilt tract of beautiful forest country and did some detecting there at some diggings. One of my mates had found a gold sovereign at a stone ruin on the Campbells Creek- Irishtown road back in the eighties. I used to go and get my monthly supply of mineral water just past Irishtown down a track on the Loddon River.We lived at Mckenzies Hill on a few acres in the Eighties and I used to go down to the bottom paddock and usually bag a couple of rabbits every day at 6 am. The rest of our food we grew in our veggie patch. Some income came from the larger nuggets I found around Dunolly/Havelock.
My family used to know some of the oldtimers like the water bailiff and his wife that lived out on the Golden Point res. Twice wounded at Lone Pine. His wife was always complaining what a lot of snobs Castlemaine people were.Then there was Ivan Ford out on the Fryers Road.He used to grow veggies with his son and barter for a living and also sold firewood.Old Laurie Burns out at Chewton used to catch rabbits with his ferrets and sell them and also go panning after heavy rains. Fell into the sea in New Guinea and couldn't swim and nearly drowned.Old Richard used to stand outside his used furniture shop in Forest Street and talk with anyone who would listen and was a treasure trove of information. The owner of the Five Flags grocery shop and haberdashery as it was once called knew all about the gold and history of the area of Campbells Creek and all the old families who were squatting along the Fryers Road in the 1930,s. I would go to him to find out just by handling a gold specimen how much gold was in it.To my surprise he estimated 3 ozs in one of my specimens. Cheers,Rob.