GPX4500 Coil choice for wet ground

[Hamsy]

G'day all, hey I know that a lot of people have upgraded to new detectors recently, but I am still trying to work out why people say that a 4500 is a good detector, I have found gold with mine, but it is inconsistent in varying ground conditions.

Off to Clermont in Qld on Sunday, when I was there after Easter, it was damp and where I am based the ground is full of hot rocks and mineralised soil and add water to that and it made the detector very noisy with my 9" and 12" Monos. When I tried to quieten it down, I lost a lot of depth on the practice targets we have at the Camp.

I have a GP series 11" DD Coil that came with the detector and my information says it combats wet and noisy ground better than the Monos. Has anyone found it worth while using that or similar coil in those conditions?

I have been offered a loan of a GPX6000 but I hear they don't like wet ground much either?

Any helpful info is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Teemore]

By no means an expert in "Wet Grounds" but having found the 6000 hates the stuff I've found that with "iffy" signal it's best to ground balance on some of the top scrapping and then check your hole again .... with the 6000 anything not gold/metal will see the "signal' disappear .... can't say I've tried it with a 4500/4800/5000 but may work for you.

 

[stevewilko]

Hello Hamsy,
Quote: " I am still trying to work out why people say that a 4500 is a good detector, I have found gold with mine, but it is inconsistent in varying ground conditions."

For mine, the gpx4500 is a very good detector.

My answer to help you is that the detector is not 'inconsistent'. Your ability to hear what the detector is telling you is 'variable' under 'varying' environment and ground conditions.

Your detector is not losing depth. Your ability to detect/hear signals is suffering or is decreased by noise, noise that you have determined the factors for.

Returning to different conditions in your camp-site test targets results is different ground again and on a different time of day?

The rx gain settings (etc), are not for getting greater depth. The detector does not get greater depth it is a constant electonic pulse.

The rx gain and other function selections, control the receive amplification and you may not be able to hear through the noise. So sometimes you have to dumb it down, other days / times you can crank your settings 'up' and hear targets deeper.

A DD coil is a pulse transmit coil on the LH side and a receive coil on the RH side with an overlap in the middle.
DD coils are always a shallower depth option because you have less transmit than the full mono coil outside rim transmit configuration.
They run quieter therefore.
They do not go deeper therefore.

Cheers
Wilko

 

[Goldfield Joe]

Hi Hamsy,

As Wilson has stated above, the 4500 is not losing depth, it's just our ability to discern targets from ground noise and other conditions.

I own a 4500 and I cannot speak highly enough of its capability. Admittedly I am in the GT and you are in a different area but we have very highly mineralised soils here. I usually run a 12" Evo with my 4500 and one of the best things I learned was not to be afraid to DIAL IT BACK. In ideal conditions I could run gain of 11 and yes this will increase our ability to hear the target response but I have run a gain of 6 in damp AND mineralised conditions and still found good gold. I think a large part of it comes down to US needing to adjust to the settings we are changing. Just learning to listen differently can make all the difference. Check out my finds posted a couple of days ago, all in damp and mineralised conditions. I have absolute faith in my 4500, less faith in my abilities!!!!

P.S. I ALWAYS use headphones, I used to use a speaker but the day I started using headphones changed my gold detecting life, I have found far more gold with them than without. I hope this helps you on your quest for great gold!

 

[PhaseTech]

Ground is a funny thing. If the ground is positively mineralised, i.e. lots of iron, or thick red clay, then a larger (less sensitive) coil will run quieter. But if the ground has any salt in it, moisture will enhance its conductive nature, and in this case a smaller coil will actually run quieter. This is very evident when you try to run PI gold machines on the wet sand at the beach.
I was detecting in Amherst some years ago with a few mates, and we went out for a night hunt. The ground was quite wet. Guys running the flat wound coils were complaining of too many false signals. One guy swapped to his old 11" Minelab mono, and I put on a 15x10" Detech mono (both traditional bundle wound coils), and they ran great and we both got gold. Sticking to a flat wound coil like a 12" Evo, and dropping your Rx Gain does have a similar effect, but the flat wound coils are still transmitting a very dense/powerful field into the ground, regardless of your Rx Gain setting, so there will always be instances where a bundle wound coil will be the go. Or there's always Sensitive Smooth timing if you want to stick to an Evo, Elite, Ultra etc.

For Clermont, I'd consider running the 11" DD only if you can run it in Normal timing. I've only been to Clermont twice, but once was with a 4500 and I ran a 15x12" Commander and it was excellent. Also did very well with an old 18" Minelab mono.

 

[Davent]

I was going to suggest using a bundle wound coil like the nugget finder advantage 17 x 11 or 14 x 9

 

[Hamsy]

Hello Hamsy,
Quote: " I am still trying to work out why people say that a 4500 is a good detector, I have found gold with mine, but it is inconsistent in varying ground conditions."

For mine, the gpx4500 is a very good detector.

My answer to help you is that the detector is not 'inconsistent'. Your ability to hear what the detector is telling you is 'variable' under 'varying' environment and ground conditions.

Your detector is not losing depth. Your ability to detect/hear signals is suffering or is decreased by noise, noise that you have determined the factors for.

Returning to different conditions in your camp-site test targets results is different ground again and on a different time of day?

The rx gain settings (etc), are not for getting greater depth. The detector does not get greater depth it is a constant electonic pulse.

The rx gain and other function selections, control the receive amplification and you may not be able to hear through the noise. So sometimes you have to dumb it down, other days / times you can crank your settings 'up' and hear targets deeper.

A DD coil is a pulse transmit coil on the LH side and a receive coil on the RH side with an overlap in the middle.
DD coils are always a shallower depth option because you have less transmit than the full mono coil outside rim transmit configuration.
They run quieter therefore.
They do not go deeper therefore.

Cheers
Wilko

It's been a while since I posted that but I gave only just seen your reply Wilko, thanks for your insight, I am heading out again this week, have my 12" NF Evo this time. I hear what you said about my hearing being inconsistent, I found out that one of my hearing aids was not working well. Cheers and thanks again

 

[Hamsy]

Hi Hamsy,

As Wilson has stated above, the 4500 is not losing depth, it's just our ability to discern targets from ground noise and other conditions.

I own a 4500 and I cannot speak highly enough of its capability. Admittedly I am in the GT and you are in a different area but we have very highly mineralised soils here. I usually run a 12" Evo with my 4500 and one of the best things I learned was not to be afraid to DIAL IT BACK. In ideal conditions I could run gain of 11 and yes this will increase our ability to hear the target response but I have run a gain of 6 in damp AND mineralised conditions and still found good gold. I think a large part of it comes down to US needing to adjust to the settings we are changing. Just learning to listen differently can make all the difference. Check out my finds posted a couple of days ago, all in damp and mineralised conditions. I have absolute faith in my 4500, less faith in my abilities!!!!

P.S. I ALWAYS use headphones, I used to use a speaker but the day I started using headphones changed my gold detecting life, I have found far more gold with them than without. I hope this helps you on your quest for great gold!

Hi Goldfield Joe, I have found about a dozen small nuggets with this machine but all were in drier conditions. I am heading back out with my 12" NF Evo this week. I have hearing loss and I discovered that the hearing aid on one side was blocked up after my last visit to the gold fields. Will take on board what you have said and take heart that there are others who also vouch for the 4500. Cheers, Hamsy

 

[Hamsy]

Ground is a funny thing. If the ground is positively mineralised, i.e. lots of iron, or thick red clay, then a larger (less sensitive) coil will run quieter. But if the ground has any salt in it, moisture will enhance its conductive nature, and in this case a smaller coil will actually run quieter. This is very evident when you try to run PI gold machines on the wet sand at the beach.
I was detecting in Amherst some years ago with a few mates, and we went out for a night hunt. The ground was quite wet. Guys running the flat wound coils were complaining of too many false signals. One guy swapped to his old 11" Minelab mono, and I put on a 15x10" Detech mono (both traditional bundle wound coils), and they ran great and we both got gold. Sticking to a flat wound coil like a 12" Evo, and dropping your Rx Gain does have a similar effect, but the flat wound coils are still transmitting a very dense/powerful field into the ground, regardless of your Rx Gain setting, so there will always be instances where a bundle wound coil will be the go. Or there's always Sensitive Smooth timing if you want to stick to an Evo, Elite, Ultra etc.

For Clermont, I'd consider running the 11" DD only if you can run it in Normal timing. I've only been to Clermont twice, but once was with a 4500 and I ran a 15x12" Commander and it was excellent. Also did very well with an old 18" Minelab mono.

Thanks so much for the reply, after finding a few nuggets at Palmerville with the 9" Coiltek, I left the 12" Evo at home last time out. It's going back on this time and will trust the machine instead of doubting it when things aren't working out. I have a couple of settings and guidelines given to me by a very helpful fella in Victoria who is running the same machine and coil. I have been detecting occasionally for two years now and am still gaining experience with the whole scene.