First Aid and snake bite information + links
- Thread starter josh87
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personally think they are a bit of a gimick.
As a person trained in first aid I don't believe there isn't anything in them that isn't already in a Basic first aid kit which everyone should have already. Even a Basic first aid kit is easy to make yourself
Heres a list Scissers, Tweesers, Dressings for heavy bleeds ( can be a women pad as these are sealed and sterile), bandage, a Square piece of matterial that's big enough it can be folded into triangle for a sling, saline, rubber gloves, bandaids, cotten wool.
This is about all thats needed however I may of missed something & each person has a different desire for what they want in ther first aid kit.
As a person trained in first aid I don't believe there isn't anything in them that isn't already in a Basic first aid kit which everyone should have already. Even a Basic first aid kit is easy to make yourself
Heres a list Scissers, Tweesers, Dressings for heavy bleeds ( can be a women pad as these are sealed and sterile), bandage, a Square piece of matterial that's big enough it can be folded into triangle for a sling, saline, rubber gloves, bandaids, cotten wool.
This is about all thats needed however I may of missed something & each person has a different desire for what they want in ther first aid kit.
When i worked in Arnhem Land it was remote........cheeky snakes alive.
Anti venom was a no go as it only has a limited shelf life at a very cold temp and is extremely expensive.
Best method was pressure and immobilize patient, then call in flying doctor.
Mind you weather and conditions must be right for landing or your screwed.
Anti venom was a no go as it only has a limited shelf life at a very cold temp and is extremely expensive.
Best method was pressure and immobilize patient, then call in flying doctor.
Mind you weather and conditions must be right for landing or your screwed.
G
Guest
I've read you're better to spray it with metho first Old Fred. Not sure I'd put gaiters through the wash if they had venom on em, might get on the kid's clothing and stuff like that. Probably is a good ide to carry some metho around in a spray bottle so you can denature the poison in the field.
Old Fred said:
Old Fred I may stand corrected here but I don't think this is the case as snake venom is not a poison it's a venom and as such unless broken skin or a cut the toxins won't hurt you. I even seen people drink it and this is then broken down by stomach acids. Should add here that if you had stomach ulcers or some other problem where the venom could enter the blood stream then the result no doub't would be different. Would be good to clarify here either way as this has always been my belief ?
We have some of the deadliest snakes in the world so either way erring on caution certainly could be warranted :|
I think you're right bogger. I've seen and heard the same. Also if you ever actually get bitten and envenomated you should never wash the bite site or clothing as the venom that is left will help identify the type of snake.
On the fence with this one,
Copied from Australian Resuscitation Council,
First Aid for Snake Bites:
Do NOT wash the area of the bite or try to suck out the venom!
It is extremely important to retain traces of venom for use with venom identification kits.
Do NOT incise or cut the bite, or apply a high torniquet!
Cutting or incising the bite won't help. High torniquets are ineffective and can be fatal if released.
Stop lymphatic spread - bandage firmly, splint and immobilise!
The "pressure-immobilisation" technique is currently recommended by the Australian Resuscitation Council - see their guidelines, the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons and the Australian and New Zealand College of Anaesthetists.
The lymphatic system is responsible for systemic spread of most venoms. This can be reduced by the application of a firm bandage (as firm as you would put on a sprained ankle) over a folded pad placed over the bitten area. While firm, it should not be so tight that it stops blood flow to the limb or to congests the veins. Start bandaging directly over the bitten area, ensuing that the pressure over the bite is firm and even. If you have enough bandage you can extend towards more central parts of the body, to delay spread of any venom that has already started to move centrally. A pressure dressing should be applied even if the bite is on the victims trunk or torso.
Immobility is best attained by application of a splint or sling, using a bandage or whatever to hand to absolutely minimise all limb movement, reassurance and immobilisation (eg, putting the patient on a stretcher). Where possible, bring transportation to the patient (rather then vice versa). Don't allow the victim to walk or move a limb. Walking should be prevented.
The pressure-immobilisation approach is simple, safe and will not cause iatrogenic tissue damage (ie, from incision, injection, freezing or arterial torniquets - all of which are ineffective).
Bites to the head, neck, and back are a special problem - firm pressure should be applied locally if possible.
Removal of the bandage will be associated with rapid systemic spread. Hence ALWAYS wait until the patient is in a fully-equipped medical treatment area before bandage removal is attempted.
Do NOT cut or excise the area or apply an arterial torniquet! Both these measures are ineffective and may make the situation worse.
Copied from Australian Resuscitation Council,
First Aid for Snake Bites:
Do NOT wash the area of the bite or try to suck out the venom!
It is extremely important to retain traces of venom for use with venom identification kits.
Do NOT incise or cut the bite, or apply a high torniquet!
Cutting or incising the bite won't help. High torniquets are ineffective and can be fatal if released.
Stop lymphatic spread - bandage firmly, splint and immobilise!
The "pressure-immobilisation" technique is currently recommended by the Australian Resuscitation Council - see their guidelines, the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons and the Australian and New Zealand College of Anaesthetists.
The lymphatic system is responsible for systemic spread of most venoms. This can be reduced by the application of a firm bandage (as firm as you would put on a sprained ankle) over a folded pad placed over the bitten area. While firm, it should not be so tight that it stops blood flow to the limb or to congests the veins. Start bandaging directly over the bitten area, ensuing that the pressure over the bite is firm and even. If you have enough bandage you can extend towards more central parts of the body, to delay spread of any venom that has already started to move centrally. A pressure dressing should be applied even if the bite is on the victims trunk or torso.
Immobility is best attained by application of a splint or sling, using a bandage or whatever to hand to absolutely minimise all limb movement, reassurance and immobilisation (eg, putting the patient on a stretcher). Where possible, bring transportation to the patient (rather then vice versa). Don't allow the victim to walk or move a limb. Walking should be prevented.
The pressure-immobilisation approach is simple, safe and will not cause iatrogenic tissue damage (ie, from incision, injection, freezing or arterial torniquets - all of which are ineffective).
Bites to the head, neck, and back are a special problem - firm pressure should be applied locally if possible.
Removal of the bandage will be associated with rapid systemic spread. Hence ALWAYS wait until the patient is in a fully-equipped medical treatment area before bandage removal is attempted.
Do NOT cut or excise the area or apply an arterial torniquet! Both these measures are ineffective and may make the situation worse.
Ido knowa guy that caught and released a cobra in vietnam with his beeny . After release put the beeny on his head and ended up in hospital that night in pretty bad shape .Snake poisoning . If the snake bites u leggens i would be washing them cos no need to identify the venom . Dont have washing machines or kids when i go bushBogger said:Old Fred said:
Old Fred I may stand corrected here but I don't think this is the case as snake venom is not a poison it's a venom and as such unless broken skin or a cut the toxins won't hurt you. I even seen people drink it and this is then broken down by stomach acids. Should add here that if you had stomach ulcers or some other problem where the venom could enter the blood stream then the result no doub't would be different. Would be good to clarify here either way as this has always been my belief ?
Fred have had a few strike at my leggings and I can assure you I usually wash more than just those in any case
At my place I have had them on my stairs, the back verandah, garage, curled up in storage boxes, in the dam, under tarps which in this case was two at once and even in the washing machine ................... luckily he had just been thru a wash cycle so was a bit groggy and didn't get me when I reached in to pull out some clothes.
Snakes ............................. hate em.
Funny story on the one on steps ................. chased him and he went into the clothes dryer so thought a bright idea will be to just turn it on .................. result one snake wound around internals. I threw the dryer out
With the best rate of 5 in one day I wear gaiters around the yard in snake season, especially if in the yard at night.
At my place I have had them on my stairs, the back verandah, garage, curled up in storage boxes, in the dam, under tarps which in this case was two at once and even in the washing machine ................... luckily he had just been thru a wash cycle so was a bit groggy and didn't get me when I reached in to pull out some clothes.
Snakes ............................. hate em.
Funny story on the one on steps ................. chased him and he went into the clothes dryer so thought a bright idea will be to just turn it on .................. result one snake wound around internals. I threw the dryer out
With the best rate of 5 in one day I wear gaiters around the yard in snake season, especially if in the yard at night.
mBogger said:Fred have had a few strike at my leggings and I can assure you I usually wash more than just those in any case
At my place I have had them on my stairs, the back verandah, garage, curled up in storage boxes, in the dam, under tarps which in this case was two at once and even in the washing machine ................... luckily he had just been thru a wash cycle so was a bit groggy and didn't get me when I reached in to pull out some clothes.
Snakes ............................. hate em.
Funny story on the one on steps ................. chased him and he went into the clothes dryer so thought a bright idea will be to just turn it on .................. result one snake wound around internals. I threw the dryer out
With the best rate of 5 in one day I wear gaiters around the yard in snake season.
ATE ! I ONLY GET A DOZEN on my 10 acrea block .Glad i dont live near u ,u must be a snake magnet . I wash the crap out of them (gaters that is )Australian snake venom is very different to most other snakes worldwide. That is why our first aid treatment is different to most other countries. It's different venom & works differently on us. Australian snake venom cannot absorb through the skin!
If bitten do not wash it off! They will only give you anti venom if they can positively identify the snake which is done using the venom/venom residue left on clothing & skin. There are different types of anti venom & the wrong one can be bad news. As a side note the majority of people presenting for snake bite never get to a stage of needing anti venom. They usually don't develop severe symptoms or its found to be a dry bite. Don't wait out in the bush to find out though
The only way to denature it entirely is to use metho as stated above. If on your gaiters washing it off with water will remove some but will not make any remainder or residue entirely safe. Just don't rub them on any cuts/open wounds etc.
Don't try drinking it either - your mouth & gums can be full of unnoticeable or very small cuts.
If bitten do not wash it off! They will only give you anti venom if they can positively identify the snake which is done using the venom/venom residue left on clothing & skin. There are different types of anti venom & the wrong one can be bad news. As a side note the majority of people presenting for snake bite never get to a stage of needing anti venom. They usually don't develop severe symptoms or its found to be a dry bite. Don't wait out in the bush to find out though
The only way to denature it entirely is to use metho as stated above. If on your gaiters washing it off with water will remove some but will not make any remainder or residue entirely safe. Just don't rub them on any cuts/open wounds etc.
Don't try drinking it either - your mouth & gums can be full of unnoticeable or very small cuts.
As an ambo I've dealt with a number of snake bites over the years. Both browns and tigers. Can I emphasize what others have already posted, do not wash the bite site. If the limb has already been bandaged, I don't remove the bandage just put another over the top for good measure. If not already dressed, I mark the site (Eastern browns have tiny fangs and can be hard to see)with a biro, place a combine dressing over the site (helps in IDing venom) and then pressure bandage, over site down limb and then back up the full length of limb. The brown bites I have dealt with, none of the patients were envenomated, which I've been lead to believe is common with browns, more of a warning bite. The tigers however are a different story with multiple bites. One guy having his blunstones bitten through and 5 visible bite marks on the leather (he stood on it and didn't realize at first).
All bites from both species were on the foot or ankle.
Personally I don't mind snakes and have had many encounters. On almost all the extremely close encounters (1 mtr or less) the snakes (browns, copperheads, red bellies) have been trying to do one thing only and that's get as far away from me as fast as possible. On one occasion I had a brown go into a defensive stance and I backed off slowly until it casually moved off.
I do however wear 8inch boots and loose fitting trouser when out and about.
All bites from both species were on the foot or ankle.
Personally I don't mind snakes and have had many encounters. On almost all the extremely close encounters (1 mtr or less) the snakes (browns, copperheads, red bellies) have been trying to do one thing only and that's get as far away from me as fast as possible. On one occasion I had a brown go into a defensive stance and I backed off slowly until it casually moved off.
I do however wear 8inch boots and loose fitting trouser when out and about.
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Do training re: snake bites @ work every year . Yes it can be good to splint/ imobilize the limb . However if its just you then the effort required to do this can make the heart beat faster & actually exoediate the venom spread .. Idealy just hit your emergency satellite transmitter & lay as still and as calm as possible untill help arrives is most likely the best course of action . Oh & if any of you go in the bush by yourkf without a transmitter you are crazy in my opinion
I definatley not saying you should wash a snake bite on your body .*U dont do that . What i am saying if u gators or loose clothing gets struck (not u body ) it is a bloody good idea to remove them and give them a wash because if u have the slightest nick or pimple or abrasion the venom can be absorbed . One drop of venom can kill ya .mbasko said:Australian snake venom is very different to most other snakes worldwide. That is why our first aid treatment is different to most other countries. It's different venom & works differently on us. Australian snake venom cannot absorb through the skin!
If bitten do not wash it off! They will only give you anti venom if they can positively identify the snake which is done using the venom/venom residue left on clothing & skin. There are different types of anti venom & the wrong one can be bad news. As a side note the majority of people presenting for snake bite never get to a stage of needing anti venom. They usually don't develop severe symptoms or its found to be a dry bite. Don't wait out in the bush to find out though
The only way to denature it entirely is to use metho as stated above. If on your gaiters washing it off with water will remove some but will not make any remainder or residue entirely safe. Just don't rub them on any cuts/open wounds etc.
Don't try drinking it either - your mouth & gums can be full of unnoticeable or very small cuts.
Snakes are venomous not poisonous!Old Fred said:
Poisons must be or may be ingested, inhaled or absorbed through the skin.
Venom of Australian snakes must be injected or may pass through broken skin into the soft tissue under the skin. It will not absorb through the skin.
If you get venom on an area with broken skin or if you're unsure at all treat it as you would a bite & get medical attention/advice.
For the record I wouldn't be touching venom even with unbroken skin. I'd use gloves & dispose of them after removing clothing/gaiters. Only after being 100% sure there was no bite would I wash anything or denature with metho. Considering snake bites can be fairly painless (no worse than a light scratch) & can have very hard to notice marks then it would be very hard to be 100% sure?
G
Guest
That one was a few years ago now if it's the one I'm thinking of gravity. There was another poor boy bitten by a taipan in queensland last week though, he's still alive but who knows what will come of it.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-...rts-family-of-toddler-bitten-by-snake/7905254
That's the recent QLD one
This is the Belgrave one (the boy in this one was 7 and died):
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/m...illed-son-at-school-camp-20161004-grv0rm.html
This sorta stuff makes me wonder if I'll be better off waiting until my kids are teenagers before taking them with me.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-...rts-family-of-toddler-bitten-by-snake/7905254
That's the recent QLD one
This is the Belgrave one (the boy in this one was 7 and died):
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/m...illed-son-at-school-camp-20161004-grv0rm.html
This sorta stuff makes me wonder if I'll be better off waiting until my kids are teenagers before taking them with me.
Bloody "Ambulance Chasers" on the trail again Very sorry about the kid (who knows the cause?), but the lawyers; no matter the cause; right or wrong, they're in there like f'n snakes. Like the city slicker greenies who try to govern our use of and roaming in the bush, they have zero first hand experience, and rely on conjecture. Rant finished on this forum, but not finished elsewhere.
Very sorry about the kid (who knows the cause?), but the lawyers; no matter the cause; right or wrong, they're in there like f'n snakes. Like the city slicker greenies who try to govern our use of and roaming in the bush, they have zero first hand experience, and rely on conjecture. Rant finished on this forum, but not finished elsewhere.Similar threads
