DEEP CYCLE BATTERIES and BUSH POWER

[condor22]

Some pics of my setup; I'll explain following.

The original equipment was; the battery, a 100AH GEL, the 30A Transformer/Charger, switches for both and the voltmeter. I wasn't happy with the charger side of the transformer. The voltage was only 13.8 and amperage about 5A. Not the best for a GEL (or AGM). This thing also acts as the central distribution point for 12VDC and carries the fuses for the van systems. So a pain to reroute. It also handles the 12 volts to the 3 way fridge, which draws 14A when on 12V. So if only pushing 5amps charge sooner or later the battery will be flat. It also handles an input from the car when connected, but again not the correct voltage. So I figured I'd add a few things to give a better way of charging and more flexibility.

ADDED - Projecta 15A smart charger, Redarc BCDC1220 12v to 12v smart charger, BM Pro battery management device, an exterior double 12v outlet (1 x cig socket and 1 x Merit socket), switch for the Projecta charger, 2 x USB charger port, 4 way fuse block and a negative bus post.

TO ADD - or should I say swap out eventually, replace the 100AH GEL with a 105 or 130AH AGM depending on size.

It's getting late so I'll explain the why and how tomorrow.

 

[condor22]

Before I finish the above post, the inverter install is complete.

I decided a patch lead wasn't worth the effort, so I cut off the cig plug and put the 2 pin plug directly to the inverter. I have another of the same type of inverter I usually keep in the 4x4, with its cig plug still on it.

I plugged in the electric blanket, it has a 3 position heat switch, here are the amp draws for each setting @ 12VDC. Total AH assume it is on for 8 hours on low only and show its getting a bit too much draw on a 100AH if the lighting and TV are added.

High = 5.2 amps = 65 watts
Med = 2.9 amps = 36 watts
Low = 2.3 amps = 29 watts - Total = 20.4 AH -

So I can leave both sides of the blanket on for a couple of hours without affecting battery cycle life, maybe 3 hours when I increase battery size.

Of note - With the inverter plugged in and switched on, but nothing plugged into it, drew 0.4 amps on standby. So 4 AH over 10 hours. Don't leave an inverter switched on when not using.

I thought about mounting the inverter on the adjacent wall were the 2 pin socket is, but chose not to as the inverter's frequency of use is minimal. I have a cupboard spot to store it anyway.

OK onto the conclusion.........

 

[condor22]

OK, how do I work all of this, before I explain, let me say, "What I have installed suits me, it's just one way of many ways to do this".

Deep cycle batteries and most "smart" battery chargers are better charged when not under load. Under load many charger's algorithm may not leave absorption mode and move to float. You will need to check your charger, your battery, how it's setup and how you use it. With this in mind, I'll explain what the van setup was before my mods and then after.

Before - The transformer/charger (TC) in my van is designed to provide 12VDC without a battery to van load, to charge the battery and fuse and distribute that power. It's terminals for each item cover both positive and negative wires. They list as - battery, car, load 1, load 2, load 3 and fridge. The original switches on the front of the compartment are battery (BSW) and transformer (TSW). The car wires are from the trailer hitch and directly connect within the TC to the battery, so that "some" charge is applied to the battery, whilst driving and the 3 way fridge is on 12VDC. (The TC does not boost this or need to be on). BSW isolates the battery from the TC and from the van load. During this operation the switches are set as follows

Driving - BSW =ON, TSW can be ON or OFF.
When connected to 240VAC - BSW = OFF (unless charging), TSW = ON.
When off 240VAC and camping - BSW = ON, TSW = OFF

The way this was setup I could not provide 12VDC to van load and charge the battery at the same time without the battery being under load, and, as previously stated, the charge V and A were less than ideal.

So, my brief (to myself) was to provide proper charging and at a rate to accommodate the 3 way fridge whilst driving, to provide better charging the battery than the TC allowed and to do so with NO LOAD. I also wanted an 12VDC external outlet/inlet, as the van did not have any. I also wanted a better way to connect my 150W inverter.

Next Post.......

 

[condor22]

Having reliable power whilst driving for the fridge operation was my 1st priority. It is always better to charge any battery from any charger when the charger and battery are connected with he shortest wiring possible, the alleviates, voltage drop and current limitations. I had already installed a Redarc BCDC1220 in my 4x4 auxiliary system, so decided to use one here.

Before proceeding - I have no affiliation with any manufacturer or supplier mentioned in this thread. I chose the product I believe best suits my needs and then source the best price I can find.

Redarc - Australian made and owned, has an input voltage range or 9VDC to 30VDC whilst maintaining the correct output V and A. Compact and configurable to different battery types. Ignition control available. The BCDC is a 20A charger, which suits the maximum I need and will cover the current draw of my fridge.

Method - I installed (see photo above) near to my van battery and disconnected the "Car" wires from the TC and wired (inline fuse) to the Redarc input. Then wired the Redarc output to the van battery (inline fuse). This does not need switching as when the car engine stops its battery is isolated as my vehicle Anderson plug is ignition controlled.

So, charging whilst driving, problem solved.

I purchased here, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/REDARC-B...56?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item5d489bae98 I've bought a number of things and found them reliable, prompt and a lot cheaper.

Next - 240VAC charging.

 

[condor22]

As said, I was not happy with the van OEM charging. I looked around at various chargers after working out what size. I settled on the Projecta 15AH 8 stage smart charger as it suited my battery size and expected use.

Again, I purchased from http://stores.ebay.com.au/autoelecau?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

I did however want to be able to isolate the charger, without having to disassemble my van dinette seat every time I did so. So again the output connected to the battery (inline fuse). The 240VAC presented a small problem, in that the power point inside the seat that provided 240 to the TC was a single outlet.

Solution - I bought a small extension lead that had a "piggyback plug" This I plugged into the power point, then the TC power cord on to it. I ran the lead to the front bulkhead near where the BSW and TSW switches are, spliced out the active wire and cutting it, leaving neutral and earth as is and connected. I then installed a light switch (PSW), wiring each end of active to the switch. I put a small junction box behind the switch to insulate the back of the switch. The remainder of the extension lead going to the socket end was then routed back to the Projecta charger to provide it power.

So I have individual switch control of the Projecta (PSW), the battery (BSW) and the transformer (TSW) and the ability to charge the battery at NO LOAD, as follows;

When on 240VAC in my drive, powered site or generator and charging - PSW = ON, BSW = OFF, TSW = ON (if I need 12VDC)
When on 240VAC in my drive, powered site or generator and NOT charging - PSW = OFF, BSW = OFF, TSW = ON (if I need 12VDC)
When off 240VAC - PSW = OFF, BSW = ON, TSW = OFF

Next - Other items added.

 

[condor22]

I also wanted a 12V outlet outside, so I added a double 12VDC cig socket outlet. I changed out 1 of the sockets for a Merit socket, which is a more positive connection.
I also wanted to be able to charge my phone, tablet and other USB devices so I added a double outlet USB socket, which reduces to 5VDC.

Not wanting to run another stack of wires to the battery, wanting to individually fuse and keep it tidier, I installed a 4 way fuse block and a negative bus terminal block. So I ran 1 wire to each from the battery and connected the above sockets to bus and fuse block. all negatives go to the bus and each of the external sockets and the USB socket positives go to 3 of the fuse block terminals, with 1 spare.

The final item was my inverter and I've detailed that.

The other plus, with the external merit socket is that I have a suitcase type 120W folding solar panel with an Anderson plug, so I made up a small patch lead with Anderson 1 end and a Merit plug on the other. So when out detecting I can leave the panel connected to charge the battery when out (no load as the fridge is on gas)

All of this can be monitored on my smart phone via the BM PRO and Bluetooth.

 

[condor22]

All done from me "over and out" Happy to answer questions, please be detailed and specific, I unfortunately failed "mind reading 101"

 

[condor22]

Last mod for now - hopefully.

I found that the Auxilliary 100AH AGM in the 4x4 was on its way out last weekend, it is 8 years old. Although only in the 4by for a bit over 2 years, it was used in a previous caravan as an extra when extended bush camping. So its had some use.

I had also considered increasing the 100AH GEL size in my new caravan and also using an AGM. I had a size issue in the 4x4, so I've done a swap and bought another BM PRO battery monitor.

The 100AH GEL which is 6mths old is now in the 4x4, charged with a Redarc BCDC1220, monitored with a BM PRO and among other things runs my Engel fridge.

I bought a new Full River 120AH AGM for the van as its power needs will exceed the 4x4. As previously stated it is charged when mobile by another BCDC1220 and a 15A Projecta smart charger when on 240V. Plus the original power supply is used as a transformer to provide 12V power when on mains or genny. Again monitored by a BM PRO.

Plus I have plug in solar capability on both.

I think my limitations for further improvement are now limited by SWMBO tightening the purse strings, lol.

 

[PabloP]

How many BM Pro battery monitors is that, 2 or 3, you seem to like these devices. Do you think that they are worth the $$$?

Rob

 

[condor22]

I have 2, one in the caravan and 1 in the 4x4. They are $299 each, not cheap. But given that years ago I stuffed 2 AGM deep cycle batteries in a caravan after about 18mths because I didn't know what I was using or charging and I use good ones at $350 each, the answer is yes. As I said before, these things bolt onto the negative terminal and all negative wires to the other end of the device. I can monitor both batteries from the App on my smart phone. Again to repeat.....

NO EXTRA WIRES TO RUN - NO HOLES TO DRILL FOR GAUGES

The Powertech devices I was using required both positive and negative load wires to be spliced into the circuit, longer wires to then mount the gauge and they are Unidirectional, or simply, they only tell me what I'm using, not what I charge and therefore I still don't know the batteries state of charge. But, they were still better than nothing at all.

The BM PRO is Bi-Directional, it measures current in and out and calculates the net figure. So if I draw more than I charge the figure shown is a - (negative), if I charge more than I use it is a + (positive) value. It also shows how many hours the battery has left at the present load, battery health and % of power left. i.e. 90% of a 120AH is 12 amps used, so 108AH left. Given that I limit where possible to no greater than 25% cycle to maximise battery life, I can use 30AH and on occasion up to 60AH.

This importantly tells me I NEED to charge. I wish they were cheaper, but they are a lifetime investment. I should be able to get 8-10 years out of my 120AH AGM.

 

[PabloP]

Good info Condor, I may look at them for the 4 x 4 dual battery system and likewise in the campervan. Maybe start with the Campervan as the house battery in it is subject to more use, and power availability is more important, but subject to more input variables as well.

Thanks,

Rob.

 

[condor22]

It's simple math -

If you don't know what you take out, how do you know what to put in?

and

If you don't know what you put in, how do you know what you can take out?

Over the years and with most things I've found that things fail when you NEED them and sometime through ignoring what's important..

In this instance, when you need a generator or a battery, you are usually out there and maybe a long way from home.

 

[PabloP]

Agreed, and I tend to usually have a backup or even two to try and avoid batteries getting low. e.g. Primary charge while traveling is vehicle alternator and while camped up solar panels, with a Honda 20i as the backup to all these. Of course when setup in a C.P. mains can be the main source, but solar is still there and helping out. Actually I usually go the other way and use the solar as normal even in C.P., but occasionally lash out for a powered site, even though the 240W of solar is usually a good source to charge the 110AH AGM.

My normal monitoring is a wired in volt metre and if the volts starts to get below 12.5V then I look for an alternative backup source, like the generator.

As you can see with the range of inputs, the battery monitor would help manage the balance of load and input from the various sources. Also apart from built in charging systems, I also carry a portable battery charger, whatever vehicle I am using.

Rob.

 

[condor22]

The greatest concern I have when others say they charge an AGM from a vehicle alternator is that an AGM charges best at 14.5V. Alternators charge at 13.8 or 13.9V.

Then depending on wire gauge and distance may suffer a drop from that. Although close, 13.8 will never fully charge an AGM. To maximise cycle life, a smart charger set to the configuration of the battery is always the best.

But, like I said before, you get what you pay for and I guess if on a budget, have to use what's available.

I think my missus would be pretty agro if she realised just how much I've spent. I worked out what I wanted in the end result and did a bit at a time, so she didn't see a big spend, just a few smaller ones lol. I guess it's not what you do but how you do it

 

[PabloP]

Went looking for the battery monitor devices and found that their HQ was nearby, so paid them a visit. Nice young lady said that I would have to get from a distributor and the nearest one was Anaconda. LOL I had just come from there, so back there again to find that they didn't have any in stock and the not so helpful salesman pointed me at a shelf that I had just examined very closely and said that he had never heard of them.

Fortunately Setec have an online ordering system, so I have ordered one via that path. Probably won't be here for fitting prior to Easter, but it can wait for a week.

Rob.

 

[condor22]

PabloP, these things are sent to try us lol.

I got mine at the Home of 12volt here in Adelaide. The 2nd one I rang up to find they had one left which they put aside for me.

When I got to the store, they told me they had none left until I reminded them I had phoned. I got it.

Looks like even given the price they are popular.

 

[Guest]

I am thinking of buying a 60 AH Battery and throwing it into a Battery box and use this
to charge up my batteries and provide some light for a few days camping.

As I am driving around though I am wondering if I can plug this into the car 12v socket
and charge it as I go.

Can anyone help me with this pls? Is this possible and if so what would I need?

Is there any battery thats better to buy as well?

Thanks Again in advance.

 

[condor22]

Wolfau

1st - What kind of 60AH battery are you referring to? Deep cycle or cold cranker, wet cell, gel cell or AGM? - If in a battery box, an AGM is the only way to go as it is fully sealed.

2nd - What batteries are you referring to "charge up your batteries"? Your detector? others?

3rd What kind of light are wanting to power? Fluro, incandescent or LED

If you are referring to an AGM, then you're not going to charge it from a cig plug (max rating is 10A) but it's only alternator voltage @ 13.8V. AGMs need to be charged at 14.5V so a 12V to 12V smart charger is required. Redarc or CTEK.

Also are you likely to want to power a portable fridge or an inverter? Consider a bigger battery especially if using a small inverter to power battery chargers.
I can help, but I need to know more detail as to the what and how etc.....

I know it's a fair bit and may be too much, but read my thread on bush power, https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=9156 it explains a hell of a lot. Just pick out the bits you think suit you and get back to me, happy to help.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for your reply Condor.

The only issue with the 100/130 ah battery setup is the weight.

The battery I was looking at was a deep cycle agm.

The battery system will stay at home and take it with me when I camp out which might be
4 or so times a year.

I have a battery for the GPX5000 which are I think a set of lippo batteries which are from the wireless module
that needs to be charged up when I have no power.

Might use a small 12v TV for an hour or 2 no more maybe not.

I have an 80 Litre icebox so do not need to power up a portable fridge which should be fine for about 5 or so days.

I am yet to buy some lights so will buy what won't use much power I guess which might be led.

I just need something that can give me power for a few days and in between driving around it can be charged up.

Thanks

 

[condor22]

No worries, Wolfau.

Re battery, consider this (applies to all deep cycle batteries) If they sit in a shed for a few months they will self discharge over time. How much and how quickly depends on conditions and quality of battery. They (in particular AGM) love to stay on charge, but only with a smart charger. Something like a Projecta Intelli Charge would do that. A 7amp charger would be ok for a 60AH, they run at about $129 (max 10amp $169)

Have a look at Autoelecau which is Bairnsdale Auto Electrics) https://www.autoelec.com.au/search_results.asp?q=projecta intelli charge

I've bought 2 Redarcs, a Projecta, UHF and other gear from them all post free and the best prices I could get.

They also do AGM batteries, battery boxes etc.

The above charger is ok for home use or out bush with a generator, but if no genny, you will need a 12 v to 12 v charger either the Redarc BCDC1220 (20amp, which is a bit high and expensive) or the CTEK MXS5.0T ($98) which is a 5amp charger, but given your low use, big enough.

My GPX5000 came with a cig plug charger, but I prefer to charge from the 240V charger even out bush, it's a more stable charging algorithm for the Lithium battery.
I use a Projecta 150W inverter, plugged into my auxiliary battery, then use the 240V power pack GPX charger.

Let me know if you need any other info....