CTX Vs Makro Racer, Recovery Test.

[Ridge Runner]

Today I found this really Good web Site that hundreds of reviews and Video's on all Brands But here Is some Good Video's showing the Recovery of the CTX-3030 and the Makro Racer and it is because of this problem which is why I chose the machines I have, And in the Second Link you will see some Mega Coils for your SD, GP, GPX machines.

John

http://md-hunter.com/minelab-ctx-3030-recovery-speed-test-video-different-coils/#more-4443

and here is the Link to those humungus Coils, Please note that this company will make them to what ever size you need, ok

happy hunting,

http://md-hunter.com/very-large-coils-for-minelab-say-goodbye-to-your-brain/#more-6738

 

[rocketaroo]

how many in the field situations, would be like that?

 

[Ridge Runner]

how many in the field situations, would be like that?

Everyone of mine are like that, just totally max'd out with rusty bits of Iron of one type or another, Some days I can dig up to a half a dozen plough Shears (Blades) My GT was a beautiful machine but it just would not work there, Really I should of kept is because it was one of the Aussie made ones, But I tried and even my Etrac was just as bad, and having gone from the Musketeer Advantage to the Sovereign GT was a big mistake because it was the only one that could deal with Ground like that, So if you ever get the chance to grab one I would, But get some head phones with Volume knobs on them because it will Blow your Ears Off, The Advantage hits hard and Loud,

John

 

[Goldpick]

how many in the field situations, would be like that?

Quite a few of my relic sites can offer similar scenarios, lots of rusty nails scattered all over the place from the remains of past dwellings. The Deus has unmasked a few good targets that have come out of a hole containing several nails using the 11" coil, so I'd imagine it would be even more capable again with the smaller coil (waiting for the new small elliptical coil to be released).

The Racer 2 has also done the same, picking up an SA Dog tag from amongst a hand full of nails on a relic site.

This was one such occasion where I bothered to photograph the nails, the coins were last out of the hole. I never heard the discriminated nails, with only the coin tones coming through nice and clear - both coins were deeper than the pinpointer!

 

[Ridge Runner]

how many in the field situations, would be like that?

Quite a few of my relic sites can offer similar scenarios, lots of rusty nails scattered all over the place from the remains of past dwellings. The Deus has unmasked a few good targets that have come out of a hole containing several nails using the 11" coil, so I'd imagine it would be even more capable again with the smaller coil (waiting for the new small elliptical coil to be released).

The Racer 2 has also done the same, picking up an SA Dog tag from amongst a hand full of nails on a relic site.

This was one such occasion where I bothered to photograph the nails, the coins were last out of the hole. I never heard the discriminated nails, with only the coin tones coming through nice and clear - both coins were deeper than the pinpointer!

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/1695/1468391209_img_20160605_204410.jpg

Yeah GP, I have had that happen to me quite a lot too, I think it is brilliant how you have taken to this one, I found life a lot easier going to a faster machine and the finds paid for my machine on the first day. Some times I wonder if people plant these coins with nails just to annoy us, I did have on clown who kept throwing modern coins where I was detecting after he ran out of coins I thanked him and carried on detecting, He did not know I was watching him the whole time,

I have found Plough shears and Roman Horse shoes and Roman coins all within inches of eachother, I also found out that in fields near towns that back a 100 years ago and during the war years people use to go and have picnics on the high side of the fields etc or the farm workers would stop for lunch there and loose the change they had in their pockets, Also there is a Weed over here that Bites and where ever they grow is a sure sign of human habitation, But the bugga can get you through your jeans,

John

 

[goldwright]

Yeah but air tests are just that full of air. I am running both the Deus and the CTX and the Deus really recovers quicker than the CTX but this does not mean it separates actual targets in the ground any better. I have been carrying the both around and checking really iffy tones on both machines and either one can win the shootout. Some targets the Deus hits it better then others the CTX wins. End of the day each machine is different and air tests with different shaped coils is not fair for any machine. Doing some videos of the machines separating targets that are un disturbed in the ground with compitent users now there's an idea.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Yeah but air tests are just that full of air. I am running both the Deus and the CTX and the Deus really recovers quicker than the CTX but this does not mean it separates actual targets in the ground any better. I have been carrying the both around and checking really iffy tones on both machines and either one can win the shootout. Some targets the Deus hits it better then others the CTX wins. End of the day each machine is different and air tests with different shaped coils is not fair for any machine. Doing some videos of the machines separating targets that are un disturbed in the ground with compitent users now there's an idea.

I can Guarantee that the CXT won't work in a proper Iron filled site and they do not like Ploughed Ground either, In a Separation test it makes little or no difference whether they are buried or not, If you look at Gold picks picture Both the Iron and the Copper will leach in to the ground, Both creating a bigger target than what is actually there, The point is Any Fast single frequency machine will run rings around the CTX, If the CTX is struggling to see the coin in the Air it sure won't see it in the Ground where there is something else that it has to compensate for,

John

 

[Goldpick]

Agreed Goldwright, I have never been a big fan of all these nail tests, they don't reflect nor cover many scenarios found in real world detecting, the Americans seem obsessed with using it. I guess with the test being a known quantity, you can get a reasinably consistent result from a broad range of detectors, though it shouldn't be seen as a sole factor on whether to purchase a specific detector or not. FBS detectors never seem to fare well in any sort of air testing, they much prefer targets in situ, and ones that have been there for a decent amount of time.

At the end of the day, I think being a competant operator and having an intimate knowledge and confidence in your chosen detector holds more importance than outright detector capability.

Still early days for me with the Racer 2, I really haven't put a decent amount of hours on it yet to make any sort of judgement on it's performance compared to other detectors I use. Rather than comparing it to the CTX, it would be more sensible to run it along side single frequency VLF detectors within its price range, and with similar features (thinking Teknetics G2+/Fisher F19 , Nokta Fors Core/Relic etc).

 

[Ridge Runner]

Agreed Goldwright, I have never been a big fan of all these nail tests, they don't reflect nor cover many scenarios found in real world detecting, the Americans seem obsessed with using it. I guess with the test being a known quantity, you can get a reasinably consistent result from a broad range of detectors, though it shouldn't be seen as a sole factor on whether to purchase a specific detector or not. FBS detectors never seem to fare well in any sort of air testing, they much prefer targets in situ, and ones that have been there for a decent amount of time.

At the end of the day, I think being a competant operator and having an intimate knowledge and confidence in your chosen detector holds more importance than outright detector capability.

Still early days for me with the Racer 2, I really haven't put a decent amount of hours on it yet to make any sort of judgement on it's performance compared to other detectors I use. Rather than comparing it to the CTX, it would be more sensible to run it along side single frequency VLF detectors within its price range, and with similar features (thinking Teknetics G2+/Fisher F19 , Nokta Fors Core/Relic etc).

Although such videos give a crude idea of what can happen, Nothing is set in stone, In the real world using BBS or FBS in such sites can be so frustrating with the Blanking/Nulling, The GT wouldn't have a Bar of it and the Etrac wasn't any better, Once I even gave up and went home after about an hour, I tried every coil from the Joey to the WOT coil and 5 of the SEF coils and none of them would let it work as it should, I just wish they would remove the Iron mask or make it so the user can turn it off completely, The GT has an Iron mask switch but even when you turn it off it still runs in the background, I would love minelab to bring back the GT without the Iron mask then it would be as fast as the Musketeer and it would go very deep because it's Depth would not be restricted by the amount of Iron in the Ground and it no longer Null every time it see's Iron, Because the GT in the right Ground is an Extremely deep machine, I have dig small toys at 17" with the GT.

John.

 

[Goldpick]

Whilst we do have some problematic sites here is Oz that such VLF's can offer an advantage, it is no where near as on the scale of what you guys experience, with eons of ferrous and non ferrous targets to deal with from multiple eras of civilisation. Europe really has a quite an extensive range of detectors on offer for such ground, with most being simple lightweight and fast recovering VLF's, with basic two tone audio, ground and discrim control (no real requirement for TID's or multitones when digging all non-ferrous targets).

I was going to create a new topic outlining what manufacturers and detector models exist in Europe (many completely foreign to us here in Oz). Will tack something together when I get some spare time for anyone that is interested.

 

[vstrom]

Would be interesting to see goldpick will keep an eye out.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Whilst we do have some problematic sites here is Oz that such VLF's can offer an advantage, it is no where near as on the scale of what you guys experience, with eons of ferrous and non ferrous targets to deal with from multiple eras of civilisation. Europe really has a quite an extensive range of detectors on offer for such ground, with most being simple lightweight and fast recovering VLF's, with basic two tone audio, ground and discrim control (no real requirement for TID's or multitones when digging all non-ferrous targets).

I was going to create a new topic outlining what manufacturers and detector models exist in Europe (many completely foreign to us here in Oz). Will tack something together when I get some spare time for anyone that is interested.

Top Man, at one time Tesoro were the go to machines in this junk and then they rebadged them with the Brand "Laser" because they had to lower the Disc setting on them because they would be to aggressive for these coins and such and then XP came out and the world Turned, Although the GMP was a huge success it had a few quirks when running the Disc or the GB, But it was a Giant killer and then the Deus came out that is when things really took off, A few diehards still use Explorers and Etracs, but those with cleanish sites like the CTX and those with junk filled sites use Deus, So far I have not seen any of the Nokta's here or the Makro's, Most dealers warn you that they do not retain the setting when powered down or the fact that Nokta/Makro won't open service centres over here and if you need it to be repaired it has to be sent back to where they are made, And that is the only reason why I have not bought them, and the same applies with Detech Coils etc, I just understand why the Eastern Block Companies won't allow service centres and I think that also applies to Nokta/Makro in the US,

The ones I use now are the best option and before they started making machines in eastern Europe and they have the same performance so It would not benefit me to change brands because it would be just doubling up on what I already have. and another thing Why all the others are more popular than the CTX is because ML drove the Price way higher than in OZ or the US, Last month they were charging $4000.00 for the CTX when the Aussie Dollar was $2.08 per Pound, So the whole detector market over here is a very Tangled Web Indeed, Even the Nokta / Makro stuff is dearer here than it is in OZ mostly because the New minelab importer is also the Nokta/Makro importer Too, Fischer have gone up by $800 for the F-75, They use to be about 599 and now they are 995, and the Etrac is about 1160.00 which was about $2300 AUD, So it has all got very messy over here, and Whites are the only ones that have kept the prices as per Whites USA, which is a shock, Because Anything bought outside of the EU has a 20% import duty on it,

The reason I use Whites is because I have had the most success with them over any others, But if ML bought out a machine that was as fast I would Buy it in a Flash.

john.

 

[Heatho]

It doesn't "null" on iron if you use "relics" pattern 2, it is the only true all metal preset on the CTX. You can make any of the patterns true all metal by deleting the bottom line of the discrim pattern in any of the preset programs.....

The Deus has a faster recovery, I'm sure we all agree on it. AS GW mentioned, air tests are way less than ideal.

Anyway, I still love my CTX and clean up with it nearly everytime I go detecting, even in trash filled sites with the 11" coil. A smaller coil will work superbly for even the heaviest trash filled sites I'm sure, hope I don't have to buy a small coil just to prove it......

I'm pretty sure now that most people are not seeing the very bottom line on the patterns and are getting the "nulling" idea from just plain missing the lowest discrim line. I'll say it again, "relics" pattern 2 is the only 100% fiully open screen, this is easy to see in the exchange 2 software.

 

[Ridge Runner]

It doesn't "null" on iron if you use "relics" pattern 2, it is the only true all metal preset on the CTX. You can make any of the patterns true all metal by deleting the bottom line of the discrim pattern in any of the preset programs.....

The Deus has a faster recovery, I'm sure we all agree on it. AS GW mentioned, air tests are way less than ideal.

Anyway, I still love my CTX and clean up with it nearly everytime I go detecting, even in trash filled sites with the 11" coil. A smaller coil will work superbly for even the heaviest trash filled sites I'm sure, hope I don't have to buy a small coil just to prove it......

I'm pretty sure now that most people are not seeing the very bottom line on the patterns and are getting the "nulling" idea from just plain missing the lowest discrim line. I'll say it again, "relics" pattern 2 is the only 100% fiully open screen, this is easy to see in the exchange 2 software.

I agree there seems to be a lot of people making that mistake, All metal is great for prospecting but really tiring elsewhere,

You know you want to buy another coil your just looking for someone to Blame, Tell the Mrs it was my fault, She can't hit me from there, So phone the shop while I am making my escape plan,

John

 

[JeffP]

" So far I have not seen any of the Nokta's here or the Makro's, Most dealers warn you that they do not retain the setting when powered down "
Thats BS , you can save your setting you were using when you power off .

 

[Ridge Runner]

" So far I have not seen any of the Nokta's here or the Makro's, Most dealers warn you that they do not retain the setting when powered down "
Thats BS , you can save your setting you were using when you power off .

I think Steve H said something about either the Racer or the Core did not save the mode upon powering down, Personally I would not know because I have never used one,

One thing that does have me concerned is how rough they run (Fors Relic) even when the Gain is set to 50, I was watching a Video by Keith Southern and it seemed very Chatty, Does the Gain go up to 50 or 99.

john

 

[Ridge Runner]

Here is the problem I had with my GT where a Nail would have to be about 18 inches from a coin before the Sovereign GT would be able to see the coin, Run in the Disc Mode, where as Running an Etrac or CTX with the screen wide open is basically running the machine in all metal and does not reflect the recovery speed, To see the recovery speed of any machine you have to Disc out Nails and then put down a nail and see how close you can get the Coin to the Nail to the point of when you sweep over the nail that it masks the coin and then move the coin away from the nail where it just starts to pick up both Items.

Here is a Video of the Late Great John Lynn Alias ( Norfolk Wolf ) who is a Legend over here and has written many books and was one of the most famous field testers over here, John Died about 5 years ago, Bless him, he was a Great Man.

John

Recovery Tests.

This is about the Sovereign Elite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odhpMMNfslQ

And this One Is about the GoldMaxx Power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OrLcMCCQWc

And the Explorer SE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfBT-LxVoIg

 

[Goldpick]

The Makro Racer 2 has the ability to save user setting, whereas the original red Racer did not. The Nokta Fors Relic also has the ability to save the user settings before powering down. These were added to the newer detectors at the request of Nokta/Makro users. To be honest, they are very simple detectors to setup when out in the field, usually only takes 30 seconds. Most times I don't bother saving the settings, as different sites will dictate the use of a different combination of settings anyway.

The gain on these detectors tends to be overly boosted at higher levels, hence they can get quite chatty if on mineralised or iron laden ground. Even at default gain you get respectable depth, so no real need to crank it too much, it's there on tap if your ground can support it.

That's why I didn't take much notice of Makro's air testing upon the release of the Racer 2. They were getting rediculous air test distances running the gain up near full tilt under a controlled environment, whereas in the real world that would translate to coin distances cut by up to half when properly GB'd on the ground (even worse if heavily mineralised).

 

[Ridge Runner]

The Makro Racer 2 has the ability to save user setting, whereas the original red Racer did not. The Nokta Fors Relic also has the ability to save the user settings before powering down. These were added to the newer detectors at the request of Nokta/Makro users. To be honest, they are very simple detectors to setup when out in the field, usually only takes 30 seconds. Most times I don't bother saving the settings, as different sites will dictate the use of a different combination of settings anyway.

The gain on these detectors tends to be overly boosted at higher levels, hence they can get quite chatty if on mineralised or iron laden ground. Even at default gain you get respectable depth, so no real need to crank it too much, it's there on tap if your ground can support it.

That's why I didn't take much notice of Makro's air testing upon the release of the Racer 2. They were getting rediculous air test distances running the gain up near full tilt under a controlled environment, whereas in the real world that would translate to coin distances cut by up to half when properly GB'd on the ground (even worse if heavily mineralised).

Thanks GP, that explains what I was seeing, I noticed even when it was set to zero it was still putting out the power which means the Gain pre set is pretty high at the zero setting and that the steps as the gain is increased is very low geared,,

I like the GPX style with the control box being set up like that, the only thing that seems not quite right is the handle and the stepped shaft, I don't know why they did not make it straight,

Thanks for clearing that for me, John.

 

[PhaseTech]

I like the GPX style with the control box being set up like that, the only thing that seems not quite right is the handle and the stepped shaft, I don't know why they did not make it straight,

Thanks for clearing that for me, John.

I love the feel of the Fors shafts. The Xterra is the same and they feel great even without a counterbalance at the back. Put an Xterra box on a straight shaft and it doesnt feel as nice.