Cooking with LPG inside a Caravan

[condor22]

This is a common fitting on the end of the supply hose that screws into a LPG gas bottle.

The thread is parallel, not tapered, and should screw into a bottle without resistance. The rubber seal on the end is what seals and should be inspected for damage and if perished, every time you disconnect to refill or replace a bottle.

One of the reasons I prefer to fill my own bottles rather than "swap n go" is that I know the history of how every time 'I' unscrew and replace. I don't cross thread or over tighten and I check the sealing face for dirt and damage where it fits to the bottle. I'm not sure that happens on 'swap n go' bottles or what condition they are in.

The nut should only ever be tightened finger tight, the 40mm (or there about) ring on the fitting is designed to allow enough torque to tighten the seal without damaging it.
I've seen some use multi grips - wrong.........

The 'ring' I mentioned

 

[Jaros]

It's hard to find a garage that allow you to refill an LPG bottle due to safety precautions. I agree with you re the condition of Swap and Go bottles. If you don't weigh them you cannot be sure as to whether they "filled" completely. I'm not too sure as to the price of a S+Go compared to a bottle filled by a station attendant.
Jaros

 

[condor22]

Fortunately, many country servos still fill bottles. Other places - caravan dealers, Lyall Eales in Maryborough, I'm sure Google also helps.

I guess the other thing is that many S n Go cylinders are not the standard size we would buy and given the holding clamps on draw bars and in my instance the retaining holes and clamps, consideration should be given to making sure they are properly fixed.

Another refill place round where I live is Stratco.

 

[Rockhunter62]

You will probably find that BCF have a store in you general area and they still fill gas bottles.

Doug

 

[iamagoldenoldie2]

many thoughts on this topic, so as a retired gas fitter I will add my contribution. LPG comes in 2 forms, propane and butane, so whats the difference, the boiling point, butane has a lower pressure in its liquid form and it is the gas that is found in you common hand held lighters etc where as propane has a higher pressure in its liquid state. Note the gas bottle construction, flimsy aluminium vs thick metal. Propane is heavier than air therefore the storage area for the bottle must be vented to the outside to avoid the possible build up of gas where it might cause an explosion upon ignition. best place for the bottle is outside usually on the draw bar. the connection should be flexible to avoid fracture of the gas delivery piping, and I have never heard of the corrosion comment using soapy water as a leak detection method, there is no other method that I am aware off. I once heard of a story where the bloke used a match to to test for leaks but that was only revealed after the house burnt down. if the soapy water solution has any form of bubble then you have a leak.
Your cooking alliance should be provided with adequate venting to the outside, and the fridge should have ventilation to the outside of the van to minimise the possibility go gas build up in a confined space.
Now for the swap and go system, Bunnings have been very competitive in the provision of replacement gas bottles, so its a question of expense and convince. OK you go and buy your new gas bottle but before you leave the store check the expiration date stamped on the bottle, its got a 10 year lifespan from the date of manufacture. re stamping costs more than the purchase of the gas bottle and legally , servos or re flllers cannot fill an expired gas bottle. The swap and go principal has an advantage in that the bottles are always current and you can replace them almost anywhere.
Test your connections and gas valves regularly as preventative maintenance , keep vents free from blockages, would not entertain the thought of a gas heater installed in a caravan, the by product of combustion is deadly particularly if the appliance is unvented and in a confined space such as a caravan.

 

[Nightjar]

Something I discovered with the "swap & go" method. Took both my empty 9kg cylinders and swapped them. As a matter of interest, decided to weigh the filled ones to get an idea what extra weight was landing on the draw bar.
Can not remember the exact weight details but do remember that the weight variance was about 3kg so I returned to the outlet along with my scales and swapped for one with the same weight as the heavier at home.
At a later date I weighed two empty cylinders (not the ones referred too above) and low and behold, empty there was 3kg difference in empty weight.
As IAOG2 mentions there is a difference in cylinder manufacturers specs, there is no way of knowing actual gas content with the "swap & go".

 

[Jaros]

Looks like we can't win!!

 

[Rush]

Well it is now 12 months since I opened up this topic and I thank you all once again for your replies.

Since then I have continued to do my cooking duties at my campsite outside my old caravan with my LPG gas bottle connected to a portable gas cooker resting on a fold up table.

Also I had to purchase another gas cylinder when I tried to get the one that was given to me refilled and then told it was out of date and therefore legally not able to be refilled.

Now with the discussion heading towards the actual gas content within the cylinder then I am interested on how do we tell so at least I have idea and take it with me to get it refilled before I am left without gas while on an extended stay at my campsite.

 

[condor22]

Agreed but, The following heaters are safe for use in caravans

LPG
https://www.truma.com/int/en/heating/trumatic-e-2400.php

DIESEL
http://www.dieselheat.com.au/eperspacher-d2-air-heater/

The reason - both work on a heat exchanger principle, the combustion chamber has an air intake and an exhaust ported to atmosphere (outside the van). The recirculated air blown across the heat exchanger is internal to the van and totally separate to combustion air.

I have a diesel heater, my main reason for this choice is that my caravan has 2 x 4.5kg LPG bottles. Using them for the 3 way fridge, hot water heater and cooking is a big enough drain without adding a heater to the mix. I have a 10 lt Diesel tank for the heater and carry a 10 lt jerry to fill it. the 20 lts would last me close to 2 weeks.

The Truma LPG heater uses 170gr/hr of LPG, so my total 9kg on board would last about 52 hrs. I can run my Diesel heater for 12 hrs a day for near 2 weeks. Whereas the LPG would last a bit over 4 days at the same usage, and much less as I'm using it for the fridge and other uses as well.

It's the stand alone room or tent LPG heaters that are dangerous in a caravan, because of the volume of exhaust. I've also known some to use the stove burners to heat, but there is a difference to using a burner for less than an hour to cook and all burners overnight and it's downright dangerous.

 

[nicko61]

After purchasing an old 1982 viscount caravan for use at a campsite out bush I am not sure whether to cook using the twin gas burner plate which had been screwed in place in a small compartment beside the sink that I assume was where the original type cooker item was placed.

Under the sink is another compartment where I assume the original fridge was placed and where I would place an LPG gas cylinder to run the twin gas burner plate.

There is a window behind the sink that would be opened during cooking and there are vents to the outside where the gas cylinder would sit.

I have done a test run connecting up a gas cylinder and checked using soapy water for any leaks and lit the gas burners and it all seemed to work okay.

Therefore would this LPG gas setup be safe enough to use inside the caravan as I have read of the risks of carbon monoxide so would appreciate any advice on if safe to do or what not to do?

Easiest way to avoid any danger in your permanent site is to build a slide out with stove to the annex so you have no greasy build up in van and its safe

 

[Phoenix76]

Nightjar, you are quite correct when you suggest there is a difference in tare weights depending on the manufacturer. So there really is little you can do at a swap & go to ensure you are getting proper value.

I'm lucky, I have a good mate who is into gas refills and so I rarely have to purchase from swap & go. The way he does my refills, I can get an extra 10%.

Going back to the original thread about safety of using gas in caravans. I dropped in on this thread over time and still come back to my original belief that given your gas appliance is properly installed, with the gas tanks outside the van, there is no real problem. Of course you must have proper ventilation, that's a given. It is amazing what some people do.

I live in rural Qld, and as such we have limited access to many things that city or suburban people take for granted. When we moved here, the house was all electric, but given what has happened to power prices over the last 10 years, I had to make some changes. My cooking and hot water are now both on gas. And when I say gas, I mean 8.5/9kg bottles, not the big ones. In fact the smaller BBQ type bottles are cheaper than the big ones normally used on houses. In fact I can't get the big ones filled because I don't have a gas certificate. Typical of the bush, I did all the set-up myself.

Now don't jump on me, I do in fact know what I am doing, but don't have the necessary quals to produce the required cert. Anyway, the moral of this long winded story is, if your gas set-up is properly installed, you will have no problems. My household system has now been in operation for about 6 years without a glitch. Yeah, I regularly check all the connections, hoses and appliances to make sure things are as they should be. In fact I replaced a hose from one of the gas bottles not long ago because the rubber seal was past its use by date and was leaking. Major problem there was that I was wasting gas, but a spark in the wrong direction and I would be looking for my firefighting equipment. That's another thing about living in the bush, you must be able to look after yourself. For instance, our fire brigade is 15k away, so by the time they rallied and got out here there would nothing left to fight.

So, Rush, what I'm simply saying is, if your system is properly installed, and has the proper ventilation, you have no problems. As for heaters, well I'd rather not. Yes I know that there are approved systems out there, but there have been far more accidents with heaters than ever with cooking. Just rug up, have a camp fire outside, or just go to bed and cuddle up.

 

[condor22]

Modern vans are vented for LPG use i.e. cooking. The example is in the 2 pics below. The bottom of the door has a vent (1st pic) and yes if the wind is blowing in the right direction the breeze can come in. On the other side of the van is a further vent to allow flow through (2nd pic) and no I've done some dirt roads and the dust does not seem to get in through either (hopefully good design)

Inside the van on the upper wall vent is an LPG compliance warning to NOT block the vent, A similar note for the door vent.

I guess one issue is that older vans were not as heavily regulated and may not have sufficient venting, if any.

I recently used my Diesel Heater, 3rd trip with it. Without the heater when it's 2C or lower outside, it's bloody cold inside. Plus when boiling the kettle or showering the steam gets everything damp and in the morning the inside of the roof is covered in dripping condensation.

With the heater on all night, I run it at about 18 whilst awake and drop it to about 13-14 when asleep (the doona does the rest). No condensation, no wet or damp surfaces, no steam and best of all, getting out of a warm bed aint an issue.

These heaters don't need the venting LPG appliances do.

BTW my LPG bottles are in the front boot and protected from the elements, but there is a decent vent to outside under the bottles as LPG is heavier than air. Plus there are no 12v or 240v electrics in the front boot at all, that might spark.

 

[Nightjar]

Hi Rush, You must be now convinced that cooking inside the van is safe if installed correctly.
Another point that maybe of interest Condor22's second image shows two vents amidships of van.
Many vans have 3way fridges fitted 12V/240V & gas. The above van is one of them, the fridge is in a drivers side compartment sealed from the inside but vented to the outside.
When running on gas the flame draws air from the bottom vent and hot air expelled from top vent.
To improve fridge efficiency, on our van I fitted a solar fan behind the top vent, the fan discharges additional warm air to the atmosphere assisting fridge efficiency on warmer days.
This is probably an overkill since installing Vast TV. Prior to this installation we were not particular which direction the van faced when camping. The satellite dish is mounted on the drawbar when stationary and needs to face east so the fridge is always in the shade, the passenger side of van faces the sun.

 

[fossickingfreddy]

If someone is going to put a new cooker into their van you also need to check the approval number to see if it is approved for use inside a van or building etc.

Something that is going around in 4wd circles is the use of those portable butane cookers. Aside from the other recent dramas with them, they are not approved for indoor use. That includes inside annexes. There are diagrams of what constitutes inside/outside. I think they were straight from the Australian Standards. They showed things like a structure with no roof or only two walls or something like that.

So if you get an old van like this thread is about and it has a retrofitted gas cooker screwed in place then make sure it is approved for internal use. My bet is it isn't.

 

[condor22]

Hi Nightjar, like what you said. My first van pictured had a Sat dish on the drawbar, the pole was about 1500 long. When travelling it sat down low and rested on the draw bar. I raised it when on site and even though below the roof line the angle the dish sits at saw directly over the roof of the van even at places like Mt Gambier. Of course the further north the better it got.

I drilled in a spare jockey wheel clamp to hold the pole. I travelled Adelaide to Rockhampton with it and it never moved.

Re the fridge vents (the pics are not my van and off the web, but the same as mine) I don't have a fan as so far not needed. The fridge is a Thetford N404 120+ lt.

 

[DeathKiss]

condor22 : i think you`re just jealous he has a dish satellite
:lol:

 

[condor22]

condor22 : i think you`re just jealous he has a dish satellite
:lol:

I don't quite get your comment, I actually have 2 satellite dishes, 2 tripods and a vast set top box. As well as a 12V digital PVR TV and a 2 tuner DVR.

Why would I be jealous?

Possibly in that my current van doesn't have enough real estate on the draw bar, but that doesn't prevent me from deploying the tripod......

 

[bailey952]

Hello Rush,

I think you should find some qualified gas worker, only he can solve the problem correctly.

 

[iamagoldenoldie2]

today, a friend of mine proudly showed me his brand new lotus aussie built off road caravan, a 19 footer, gas stove top and blow me down had a gas heater , so next caravan show might take a gander at what the modern caravans have installed, his had 2 gas bottles up front made in china, but the looking at the
date stamp on the bottle, 20 15 11 can't work that one out

 

[Nightjar]

but the looking at the date stamp on the bottle, 20 15 11 can't work that one out

Yankee date version above;

15/11/2020 in our language.