Constant Current Metal Detector Patent, but what does it all mean?

[Guest]

ML had slated a new 'high end' gold detector for late this year... its pretty late right now!!!

They held this patent back in 2009 not exactly the same but, well, as Woody put it

'Seems like they are attempting to lock up old patents by adding whipped cream .'

Woody would know - many regard him as the king of whipped cream :lol:
Locking up old patents is good business when you own them. If people concentrated their efforts on developing their own original technology they may come up with something better.

 

[Guest]

ML had slated a new 'high end' gold detector for late this year... its pretty late right now!!!

They held this patent back in 2009 not exactly the same but, well, as Woody put it

'Seems like they are attempting to lock up old patents by adding whipped cream .'

Woody would know - many regard him as the king of whipped cream :lol:

lol, I enjoy a good chat with him now n then on FB, but 'those' people are somewhat correct.
Jokes aside he does good work on the detectors, I think the numbers/percentages on performance increase are fudged though

Wish i had his experience/knowledge in regards to the ML/PI machines.. it all makes my brain itchy!

If people concentrated their efforts on developing their own original technology they may come up with something better.

Totally agree, I still don't understand how Whites/Garrett hell even Tesoro haven't come up with something better or at least on par.. (yes the ATX is awesome) but its no 5000..

 

[Goldpick]

There's probably more money to be made on mass marketed, affordable detectors under $1000 in the US vs expensive specialised gold detectors.

Going by the above info, it is clear that Minelab are very aggressive re protecting patents, and preventing any competition to their technologies. So to be one up over minelab would be a very hard and expensive ask. Afterall, manufacturers like Whites have paid for the privilege for using certain Minelab patents and technologies for a several years now, so it makes good business sense.

From looking at the Codan agm document, there was no mention of the "entry level" detector being a PI unit, probably more so a detector to compete with the Fisher/Teknetics/Garrett/Whites VLF detectors. Don't think Minelab have had a unit in this range since the Musketeer detectors, as resources at the time were probably spent more dedicated to developing their range of multi-frequency detectors, which price wise are hardly entry level machines for the masses. Will be interesting to see with what they come up with.

 

[Guest]

Minelab don't innervate, they re-hash... no reason to spend millions on research and development when you can upgrade a previous unit.. update the name, and tack on $1500-2000 every 3-5 years..

 

[peterau]

More dollars if you want the new flagship & a truckload of old coils that you can't use on the new one

Beaudy I need a big coil,I'll offer $5 a kilo.

 

[Guest]

Minelab don't innervate, they re-hash... no reason to spend millions on research and development when you can upgrade a previous unit.. update the name, and tack on $1500-2000 every 3-5 years..

Pretty harsh statement - the SD2000 was probably Minelab's biggest innovative development in the industry to date. Yeah even todays GPX has stemmed from this but if you look at each model there has been some innovative upgrades through each step up - all of which would have required a little right through to extensive research & development.
Where was the MPF technology in the SDC2300 re-hashed from? This is pretty innovative to me - you can put whatever sized coil you like on a GPX etc. but you still won't have MPF in the box. The next flagship probably will - we'll see?

 

[Guest]

More dollars if you want the new flagship & a truckload of old coils that you can't use on the new one

Beaudy I need a big coil,I'll offer $5 a kilo.

:lol: I really can't see a mass sell up of GPX's or other PI's to buy the new flagship. A lot will just bat on with what they're using now & see what happens. My statement was more to highlight that the new machine definitely sounds like it will require a new type of coil.

 

[Goldpick]

That's par for course for most of the industry I think. Same could said for electronics like the iphone, release upgrades in dribs and drabs, charge the earth, then get sh##y and sue the *** off Samsung when they release something more innovative to the market. :lol:

In saying that, we have not seen a hell of a lot from any of the other manufacturers as of late.

It would be good to see something replace to replace the Sovereign, considering it is still regarded as a top machine, there is a market out there for non screen based, serious coin detectors.

They could probably do away with the x-terra 505, and develop a more serious vlf coin/relic detector in that price bracket, maybe moving away from the vflex type setup to a more traditional single frequency coil arrangement.

 

[Heatho]

I'm not really sure what all that meant but the next flagship detector I can see a PI Gold detector that has MPF, changeable coils and timings and is waterproof.

Something hopefully a bit like the Deus, lightweight with separate control box and wireless with a USB or ethernet for updating.

Who knows...........

 

[Narrawa]

Where was the MPF technology in the SDC2300 re-hashed from?

MP= multi-period.....the F =fast.... Still pulse induction. It turns on the rx much faster than that of the FG on the 5k

 

[Guest]

Yeah mate know that but there must be something innovative about having faster rx & maintaining stability. I'm sure I've read that any previous attempt to do this ran into issues? Unless Minelab have used it before & polished it up a bit I don't see how MPF in its current form has been re-hashed from anywhere. Refined maybe? Or new Pulse Induction technology?

 

[Guest]

Something hopefully a bit like the Deus, lightweight with separate control box and wireless with a USB or ethernet for updating.

Who knows...........

How do you know if this is not in the works already?

 

[Narrawa]

Yeah mate know that but there must be something innovative about having faster rx & maintaining stability.

How long have Minelab been producing Mine detectors.??? If EMI was an issue with these detectors, they wouldn't be real popular, given the amount of comms equipment they have/use in the field.
Its a bit like the ergonomic problem SDC owners whinge about.....modeled from the F3 with no stand.....probably because putting the detector down out there is suicide.?

The innovation for maintaining stability, is probably a bleed over from the Mine detector.?? The timing its self.????....well its been said that ML read the forums, perhaps someone asked for a detector to find gold smaller than that of the 5k in FG.?

 

[Guest]

The F3 used MPS (I know you know what that is :lol: ). They haven't produced any Mine detectors with MPF to my limited knowledge.
The stability I was talking about, although the extra EMI shielding is good, was the MPF timings ability to still remain stable in highly magnetic/mineralised ground while having a higher sensitivity to smaller gold with the faster switching to rx. The issue was, with traditional pulse machines, that switching on the rx faster caused stability issues, apparently, in highly mineralised/magnetic ground. MPF solved it so that is a little bit innovative I reckon.
Rumour has it, & I am probably starting it, that the new machine will come complete with MPF & an even more innovative new timing MPD (guess what D stands for) as well as MPS, DVT, SETA & the new CC with DTC. It'll also have a free set of instructions for obtaining a permit to dig deep holes & an 1800 number for fast approval of small scale mining operations for the big, deep gold hunters :lol:

 

[stalker]

Surely there must be a dial before you dig number Included.

 

[Guest]

Minelab don't innervate, they re-hash... no reason to spend millions on research and development when you can upgrade a previous unit.. update the name, and tack on $1500-2000 every 3-5 years..

Pretty harsh statement - the SD2000 was probably Minelab's biggest innovative development in the industry to date. Yeah even todays GPX has stemmed from this but if you look at each model there has been some innovative upgrades through each step up - all of which would have required a little right through to extensive research & development.
Where was the MPF technology in the SDC2300 re-hashed from? This is pretty innovative to me - you can put whatever sized coil you like on a GPX etc. but you still won't have MPF in the box. The next flagship probably will - we'll see?

That was actually my point, minor upgrades to existing technology...

Option 1:

Spend an arse load of money, develop an all new detector, something that goes 20% deeper and a gain of 10% sensitivity and you open up 100% of 'flogged' gold fields.

Option 2:

Or knock out the GPX 5500 (in theory) gain 1-2% depth at most, 3-5% sensitivity to match the SDC or better... sell it for $6500-7000... and make an arse load of money...

I know which option I'd go with $$$$

 

[Narrawa]

The stability I was talking about, although the extra EMI shielding is good, was the MPF timings ability to still remain stable in highly magnetic/mineralised ground while having a higher sensitivity to smaller gold with the faster switching to rx. The issue was, with traditional pulse machines, that switching on the rx faster caused stability issues, apparently, in highly mineralised/magnetic ground. MPF solved it so that is a little bit innovative I reckon.

Not only does it turn on the rx faster, but it slams shut the tx which prevents the rx from receiving any residual tx....unlike the other smooth timings.

MPS vs MPF, one uses a cycle per sec time of 3000, the others. much slower. Therefore, both are still variants of Milti Period Sensing.
Pretty sure i read this from their website.?.....or patent.??

 

[Guest]

Yep -
Near instantaneous switch off of the transmit signal minimising residual tx during rx.
MPF does run at a frequency of 3kHz which means about 3000 signals per second.
MPF is a variant of MPS but an innovative variant - it has 2 new patents so it must be :lol:

Re-hash -
Using enhance/fine gold type rx signal processing.
Automatic Ground Tracking
Fast Ground Tracking

She's all good - me put batteries in, machine beep when coil moved over metal, work good bloke.

Anyway I thought this thread was about the CC with DTC not the SDC. We better get back on track. :lol:

 

[Guest]

Anyway I thought this thread was about the CC with DTC not the SDC. We better get back on track. :lol:

This constant current thing intrigues me... I've read the patent info and still makes me go hmmm... We can safely say I am no Bruce Candy and never will be

 

[ronniecruisin]

Hi. Just wondering if anyone managed to get a copy of the QED plans. Sounds like an interesting project to muck around with. Saw a Utube video of it . looks interesting. Seems to work OK.