Bought a flat lap, any info will help me!

[AtomRat]

Got a lucky score at the gem club today, well I think it is. Its hand made by an engineer, came with brass dops, brass rollers ( what r these for? ), a single indexing disc I think up to 40 or 42..

Came with copper laps, 3000, 300, 240. Also a perspex one?

Has the dop stick jig to go from one stick to another.. ( sorry..I know they have proper names but I'm too excited to remember them..)

A lot is held in with allen keys like the height adjustment

Pulley looks like a dodgy bit of leathrr stapled. Foot pedal..think its an old singer sewing machine motor.

The lap wheel seems to have a wobble but I think its because I havnt tightened the lap nut down tight yet.

$150 total.

Any help is much appreciated, I've bought it well before learning lapping so I hope I've done well buying this machine.

As its hand made it may take me a little to get used to.

First question about lapping: sorry edited out... put my face into a book to get the answer rather quick..

 

[AtomRat]

I now know the rollers are for charging the copper laps and the dop stick tool is called the transfer block. A rather nifty little one I should say.

Ok a real question: can I buy extra indexing discs for more less uneven or whatever ..I know I may need them one day, just wondering if I can get more or ill have to get custom made ones. Ill take a photo if necessary because it may be from a proper lap machine and someone may identify it.

I have a lot to read and many youtube vids to watch now

What is my best stone, grit and polish to try out first guys for practice?

 

[Lefty]

You might need to get the index wheel custom made AR, unless the bloke who built it used an index from an existing model.

Quartz is usually a good first stone IMO - decent hardness, no cleavage planes, looks good etc. I typically rough out the preform on #360 (maybe #600 if it's smaller) then grind it slightly further down again on #800 or #1200. I cut the facets in on #3000 then if it's any type of quartz I polish it with cerium oxide on a typemetal polishing lap. I have successfully polished quartz using diamond (#60 000 or #100 000) but then I struck a bit that just refused to polish with diamond. I switched to the cerium on typemetal and so far I haven't yet had a bit of quartz that did not respond well to that.

Have fun

 

[AtomRat]

You might need to get the index wheel custom made AR, unless the bloke who built it used an index from an existing model.

Quartz is usually a good first stone IMO - decent hardness, no cleavage planes, looks good etc. I typically rough out the preform on #360 (maybe #600 if it's smaller) then grind it slightly further down again on #800 or #1200. I cut the facets in on #3000 then if it's any type of quartz I polish it with cerium oxide on a typemetal polishing lap. I have successfully polished quartz using diamond (#60 000 or #100 000) but then I struck a bit that just refused to polish with diamond. I switched to the cerium on typemetal and so far I haven't yet had a bit of quartz that did not respond well to that.

Have fun

Excellent info and thanks! Quarts was what I was thinking too. What about glass or no good? I've got plenty of quartz cutters I find anyway so no big deal there.

The index wheel and the dial gauge look a little 'too good' compared to the rest of the handmade work so ill take a close up photo and post it asap. I'm pretty sure its from another machine. Ill have to borrow grits from the gemclub in a few days.. hang on. I have a tumbler kit of grits, hopefully its what I need.

Off to a bad start.. can't find my allen keys and the one needed is missing from the set the machine came from of course :lol:

 

[Lefty]

I guess you could facet glass AR. I've never tried, I think it would be pretty soft and fragile though old tv screens were once popular beginners "stones"' - variously known as "tv-ite"or "Sanyo topaz""

I just find that quartz is usually easy to cut and takes on a nice polish easily on the above combo (though I''m sure plenty of others would succeed as well).

Good idea to post a close up of the index wheel, someone here will probably recognise the make.

Cheers

 

[Kingsolomon]

That's a faceting machine , not really a lapper should have fun with that . Might need some new laps , and they will cost more than the machine . But some you have could be ok . You will have to try . Topaz or garnet ( not a real nice one) will be a good first stone . Quartz is quartz ,and dosnt really seem to like to be polished . I've done dozens of them and my friends say I do them cause I like to frustrate myself . Maybe they are right 600- 3000- 50000 is a good place to start .

 

[AtomRat]

Cheers for your input Solomon

Sorry for the incorrect terms, as I stated I've bought it well ahead of experience in knowledge and niw gotta get to it!
What happens to the laps? I have rollers to recharge them or can this only be done a few times until worn down.

What's a lapper by the way just so I know.. I know what a vibratory lap is, there's one at the gem club, but mabey I don't know what a flat lap is yet :8
Don't have a 600 so looks like I'm in for a few supplues shortly.. excited!

A new bloke just joined the club who has won contests faceting?! So I recon I'm gonna be his pesky fly for a while. Said he has kilos of topas and blue topaz so I should have a pronlem now buying something to cut either

Lol @ tv-ite Lefty

 

[AtomRat]

Heres the indexing wheel 64 highest number sorry.. and dial:

 

[AtomRat]

I googled flat lap and see its quite like mine minus the faceting / index arm. But its not recommended to use a faceting machine as a flap lap or it doesn't matter?

I'm guessing to use as a flat lap that diamond laps would be better than copper

 

[Kingsolomon]

64 will cut a lot of design . 96 and 80 are what you need for trillion and pentagon respectively . A machine is just that , patience and effort will reap many rewards from any machine . It's the cutter and thier eyes that do the work . If you have some laps like the copper I see there , be careful on charging them with a grit. It may have been used for say 260 and if you put 600 on it , it will still get the 360 scratches .. So look into it and plan ahead before cutting your stone . Pick the brains of the cutter at lap club .. An eight side brillant in the litte book you have there is a good start , far easier than a standard brilliant . It also has angles for topaz . If the cutter has a lot of blue , I'm interested . Running out of rough

 

[AtomRat]

64 will cut a lot of design . 96 and 80 are what you need for trillion and pentagon respectively . A machine is just that , patience and effort will reap many rewards from any machine . It's the cutter and thier eyes that do the work . If you have some laps like the copper I see there , be careful on charging them with a grit. It may have been used for say 260 and if you put 600 on it , it will still get the 360 scratches .. So look into it and plan ahead before cutting your stone . Pick the brains of the cutter at lap club .. An eight side brillant in the litte book you have there is a good start , far easier than a standard brilliant . It also has angles for topaz . If the cutter has a lot of blue , I'm interested . Running out of rough

Thanks again, the copper laps are clearly labelled with numbers and separatly packaged with labels, two unopened so I think I'm safe with that concern. I can see much wear on the open laps at all quite honestly, nearly unscratched.

Was just reading the book, ill start there.

Ill certainly see what I can do about topaz for you, need to wait until Saturday for next meeting though unless I get his number off another member before hand

 

[Lefty]

Hmmm - I always get a brilliant polish on Quartz on the combination mentioned above Barney :/ The little colourless Quartz crystals that my dads next door neighbour gave me come up so brilliantly that a layperson would mistake them for diamonds (and have).

Funny thing is, when I tried using cerium for cabbing quartzy things, it didn't seem to work very well. Tin oxide always worked much better. An old pro cutter put me onto the cerium on typemetal for Quartz and I've had nothing but success with it.

If you do try that AR, don't let the lap dry right out or it will scratch. Either keep dabbing the lap surface with water on a little artists paintbrush or give it squirts froma squirty bottle with a little cerium mixed into the water.

In the end, you really have to try things for yourself because a small difference in the way something is used can make a critical difference. My new compound ceramic lap struggled to polish anything when I followed the advice given in a gem art article. The article was very insistent that no matter how little Diamond you think you have on your ceramic lap, you almost certainly have too much. After much frustration I added significantly more diamond than the article recommended and the lap immediately began polishing the stone very nicely.

Only problem is that it heats the stone very quickly and it turns out of alignment - no way to fix this one as is, gonna have to re-cut it now. But that s ok because I've just discovered how brilliant a hexagon shape can be so that's what it wil become Will just be sure to use epoxy not wax and probably give it at least 24 hours to harden right up before polishing.

 

[AtomRat]

Why not the wax? I dopped onto wooden st8cks for cabbing with ease, only one come off because I didn't givebit long enough to cool and tge cold watrr shocked it..

Ill try out your tips shortly

 

[shivan]

Looks like you found a great starting point. Hope you get it all worked out. Would love to have something like that to play with

 

[GallicProspector]

64 is a good starter index, no need to bother with more indexes, because if you like faceting and start to gain practice, you will want another/more precise machine.
Quartz is a good starter. Rough shape on 360, cut on 600 (or 1200 for smaller facets/stones), prepolish on 3000 (BAttlapp), polish with cerium, ideally with an ultralap, it never fails and does perfect polish.

Contrary to Kingsolomon, Topaz are the stones giving me trouble. I guess I need a new polish lap for this one, my diamond polishing lap is a bit old (came with my machine).

This may be of use to you, a tutorial in 15 video about faceting:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIU2_BTxQHuoZ0yj-LX-TWtWXk_lCk56N

 

[AtomRat]

Cheers for more info I guys.. I need more of it!

Glad to know I won't need another index wheel, I'm happy doing brilliants for now and rectangular like aquamarine.

The whole 'charging' process seems a bit tedious, is this to be done every time for each rock or does the grit wear out and its rather obvious..

Another thing.. are the copper laps different softness for each grit to roll in?

It will take a while to learn to charge but I've got to expect these things with old machines

 

[Lefty]

I usually dop with wax for the pavilion because it sets very quickly AR. I dop with epoxy when transferring, attempting with wax is generally not recommended to my knowledge.

My problem with wax stems only from a particular kind of polishing lap, a composite ceramic type. They really heat the stone and the wax can start to melt. I've polished with typemetal and lucite as well, they don't heat the stone like a ceramic can. No problems for those kinds of polishing laps, go,ahead and use wax.

 

[AtomRat]

Am I better off buying premade diamond laps rather than charging my own so I don't wreck them. They are only $8 on ebay and even if they don't work well it would still be practice withought stuffing something expensive

I'm struggling to figure out the height adjustment cheater, not too sure what he's made there but I can't figure out the minute adjuster screw on the top of the arm

 

[AtomRat]

[video=480,360]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vepGTjf-byA[/video]

 

[AtomRat]

I usually dop with wax for the pavilion because it sets very quickly AR. I dop with epoxy when transferring, attempting with wax is generally not recommended to my knowledge.

My problem with wax stems only from a particular kind of polishing lap, a composite ceramic type. They really heat the stone and the wax can start to melt. I've polished with typemetal and lucite as well, they don't heat the stone like a ceramic can. No problems for those kinds of polishing laps, go,ahead and use wax.

Taking my time and not holding the stone on too long should be too hard to prevent it should it or it is an issue I really should be thinking of..

I use wax on cabbing on a cabking and grinder and have only had one come off because I didn't wait for the wax to cool correctlly. I don't have a ceramic disc at all so that's alright. I'm still confused though.. what's the perspex disc for? Cant be polishIing can it?