Australian sapphire my ........

[Lefty]

Lefty is quite right - many Australian stones are of good quality and do not need treatment before cutting. It is also true that the better quality greens can look very like glass - although any cutter should know the difference. I attach a picky https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/1873/1412653429_dscf7408.jpgof a clear green stone (3.5 carat) dug on Bedford Hill, Rubyvale a few days ago, and yes - it could be taken for a piece of glass!

Yep, you can see how a tourist would straightaway think it was only a bit of glass - would have thought a jeweller would have recognised the stuff, especially since he should have known that a very major sapphire producing field was within the region.

I've never actually been to Bedford Hill - you're down pretty deep there (about 50 feet) aren't you?

It always gets me how every area on the field seems different. At our old claims at Russian gully 35 years ago, the wash was a thin layer about 8 inches thick under about 8 feet of overburden. At the new place, it's almost at the surface but the stone is distributed a bit of a funny way. Dad reckons the stone was more evenly spread throughout it at Russian gully - as evenly spread as you can find stone anyhow - but at this place it's concentrated into little tiny pockets less than a metre in diameter, scattered about the place. There is the odd stone floating about on it's own but basically, unless you happen across a pocket you get nothing. The pockets were obviously stream bed depressions or something like that of some kind and I keep looking and looking to see signs of what it is that concentrated cutting-size stones plus a heap of little chips into a tiny spot together but whatever it was is probably long eroded away. There aren't even any depressions in the floor where I've found the pockets that I've been lucky enough to hit.

 

[Lefty]

I reckon much of the Australian sapphire industry problems stem from the fact there has never been a substantial local cutting and marketing program.

Just about all the commercially mined bulk sapphire goes overseas in rough form then when cut can be on sold as being from anywhere on earth.
Years ago I saw bags of clear blue/white cross table stone being sold in Rubyvale.
Best Ceylon cornflower blue, that's how it would have ended up.

The opal industry gelled onto this years ago also having it proclaimed Australia's National Gem.
90% cut locally and even though prices have fallen on a per carat basis it is light years ahead of sapphire.
mike

It's a real shame isn't it ****ook? Stones like this probably mostly end up overseas under a different name....

......while stones like this little one I got the other day and darker blue are what gives the (undeserved) reputation for too-dark blues......

I'm now a card-carrying member of the QSMA , maybe I should put it to them that we need something like your suggestion.

 

[Lefty]

The only reason Aussies don't buy good sapphire is because a good sapphire rough would be a few hundred a carat.

Just been told that the Thai buyers on the field are paying $15 a carat for decent rough, $20 a carat for really exceptional stone.

Sounds a tad low-ish to me - I can't seem to find anyone who can give a definitive answer.

 

[rough2cut]

But that's for everything including the crap. Buy one very select stone and its a whole new game. Also If you think you can buy a thousand per carat cut stone quality for twenty per carat rough you need to check what planet your on. Also there is are you a wholesale rough dealer or a retail rough dealer or a cutting factory who sells to wholesalers and so on and so on. Cash is king so king of kings has a suitcase full of it.Also if your a small lease holder then selling rough cheap only gets you food and fuel. No money left to party.

 

[Lefty]

Agreed rough2cut - the figure given for rough of "exceptional quality" especially sounds ridiculous. It couldn't possibly be that low.

Dad stopped digging more than 30 years ago but continued to make annual pilgrimages to the field to buy parcels of good rough which were always readily available. But in recent times, it seems to have dried up.

Although the 24 carat blue in my fingers in the photo above was bought a few months ago at around $20 a carat. I wouldn't say it was crap.

I've been watching this site all year and I haven't seen a stone move yet. The few marked as sold were already marked when I first started looking.

 

[Lefty]

I'm going to assume that the original piece of rough that the 7 carat stone at the very top of the list in that link I posted was probably of roughly similar size to that blue I'm holding (the previous photo, not the one in this post). They are asking about a thousand a carat. It's probably being offered for sale by the person who mined it but if we assume that it was sold first, you're saying it was sold for rather more than $20 a carat in the rough?

This one was bang on 30 carats, also picked up on the field a few months ago. I know, it's a bit darker and the colour is not even.

He wanted $600 at first - so $20 a carat - but settled for $500. Obviously greatly inferior to the rough that the stone above was cut from? Or is the owner of that 7 carat triangular cushion asking too much?

I'm just trying to gauge how the pricing system is working. My experience is mostly just in digging the things up. I'm only a hobby miner so I don't need to sell.

I'm sorry if I jumped the gun earlier and misinterpreted a comment you made rough2cut - I'm really just trying to learn more.

 

[Lefty]

Thinking back, the reason dad has gotten frustrated with it is that for several decades he has had no trouble buying good rough on the field for the equivalent of about $20 - $25 a carat. Maybe $30 for something really nice. He has never even paid $50. The digger who shot the compass bearings for our claims last year told us about $30 for something good.

A bit of a different world is the Anakie gemfield. I've seen all manner of things - even cars! - change hands for parcels of stone. I think it's a bit different to New England which I have heard (correctly?) is nearly all commercial machinery miners, whereas the Anakie field has those but also has several long-established communities of small handminers.

Perhaps it's just the case that our entire experience is in buying them in the place where they have just been dug fresh from the dirt, often by a bloke who wants money for beer and smokes while the rough that you're seeing has already been through the hands of a number of middlemen who have all slapped their margin on? Maybe we're experiencing the same thing from the veiwpoints of two totally different worlds?

Maybe we're both at the wrong end of the rough sapphire game - maybe we should be middlemen?

That's been our experience for a very long time anyway - what are your thoughts?

 

[Heatho]

Thinking back, the reason dad has gotten frustrated with it is that for several decades he has had no trouble buying good rough on the field for the equivalent of about $20 - $25 a carat. Maybe $30 for something really nice. He has never even paid $50. The digger who shot the compass bearings for our claims last year told us about $30 for something good.

A bit of a different world is the Anakie gemfield. I've seen all manner of things - even cars! - change hands for parcels of stone. I think it's a bit different to New England which I have heard (correctly?) is nearly all commercial machinery miners, whereas the Anakie field has those but also has several long-established communities of small handminers.

Perhaps it's just the case that our entire experience is in buying them in the place where they have just been dug fresh from the dirt, often by a bloke who wants money for beer and smokes while the rough that you're seeing has already been through the hands of a number of middlemen who have all slapped their margin on? Maybe we're experiencing the same thing from the veiwpoints of two totally different worlds?

Maybe we're both at the wrong end of the rough sapphire game - maybe we should be middlemen?

That's been our experience for a very long time anyway - what are your thoughts?

There's only a few commercial miners around Inverell these days, still quite a few small mines out there with guys working claims by hand or small machinery. The middle men make the most in any industry I think.

You can buy them fresh, dug from the dirt there too at about $30 ct for good stuff, cheaper I'm sure if you buy a decent amount. Just need to ask the right people.

 

[boobook]

Hi Lefty.
I often wonder what became of the "autumn glory" stone.
I saw that when it was in the rough being handed round at Washpool, then on display at the Anakie gemfest.

Plenty of stories about that one, did you by any chance know my old mate "Snow" Crispin?
mike

 

[Lefty]

Hi ****ook.

No sorry mate, haven't met him though dad might have, I'll ask.

That Autumn glory stone was an eye-popper wasn't it? I never saw the rough, only ever saw photos of the faceted stone - an absolute stunner! Maybe that's why so many people pegged at the Washpool, despite the fact that it is prone to getting cut off in heavy weather.

The owner of the "Dam Lucky" stone brought it over and showed it to me. I posted a photo on this forum but my photo is of pretty poor quality. That's an amazing stone, full colour change!

A mate of the same
bloke got a nice one only about half a km away from where I am three or four months back - 91 carats, yellow-green. Just under the surface beside the Washpool track, not far past Blue Hill road.

Some amazing stones have turned up out there - I'm sure if I persist my turn is coming eventually

Most of the people we knew out there the last time we had claims are all dead or moved on now. Most were Europeans. You never knew old Carlo Fasci (not sure of spelling - pronouced "fashee") did you?

 

[Lefty]

Thinking back, the reason dad has gotten frustrated with it is that for several decades he has had no trouble buying good rough on the field for the equivalent of about $20 - $25 a carat. Maybe $30 for something really nice. He has never even paid $50. The digger who shot the compass bearings for our claims last year told us about $30 for something good.

A bit of a different world is the Anakie gemfield. I've seen all manner of things - even cars! - change hands for parcels of stone. I think it's a bit different to New England which I have heard (correctly?) is nearly all commercial machinery miners, whereas the Anakie field has those but also has several long-established communities of small handminers.

Perhaps it's just the case that our entire experience is in buying them in the place where they have just been dug fresh from the dirt, often by a bloke who wants money for beer and smokes while the rough that you're seeing has already been through the hands of a number of middlemen who have all slapped their margin on? Maybe we're experiencing the same thing from the veiwpoints of two totally different worlds?

Maybe we're both at the wrong end of the rough sapphire game - maybe we should be middlemen?

That's been our experience for a very long time anyway - what are your thoughts?

There's only a few commercial miners around Inverell these days, still quite a few small mines out there with guys working claims by hand or small machinery. The middle men make the most in any industry I think.

You can buy them fresh, dug from the dirt there too at about $30 ct for good stuff, cheaper I'm sure if you buy a decent amount. Just need to ask the right people.

Cheers Heatho.

Yeah, that's always been our experience. Maybe we just knew the right people back then and they're all gone now. Don't know, we had no trouble until a few years ago when they suddenly seeemed to get scarce.

I was pretty surprised when rough2cut said up to several hundred a carat for really good rough - I had never heard of anyone paying such prices, except maybe for something truly exceptional. I was also surprised when I stumbled across that site I posted the link to, the one selling faceted Aussie stones - the asking prices seemed out of this world. Yet they say that every stone there has an official valuation certificate upon request. I'm not really surprised that I haven't yet seen a single one move in all the time I've been watching.

I guess they're worth what people are willing to pay.

Of course, you're probably more likely to find more people with plenty of money to spend on fine gemstones and jewellery in Sydney or Melbourne than you are in the Central Queensland bush.

 

[Heatho]

Yor right also I dont think I've seen one of those sell either.

That's it mate, only worth what someone will pay, maybe you could get more in the big cities, not really sure but in America the prices are crazy.
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/sapphires/c-5-blue-sapphires/

 

[Lefty]

Yor right also I dont think I've seen one of those sell either.

That's it mate, only worth what someone will pay, maybe you could get more in the big cities, not really sure but in America the prices are crazy.
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/sapphires/c-5-blue-sapphires/

I'd be happy if someone wanted to pay me that for my stones!

 

[Lefty]

Actually, I'm a little surprised at how many people I work with - staff at my workplace are 95% female - think the really deep, almost midnight blue sapphires look great.

 

[Heatho]

I like the darker Blues also, any Blue is good but some are just so rich in colour. I like these 2 I have, only small ones about 3.5ct each, pretty intense colour though.

I like that 30ct one also, very nice stone.

 

[Varts]

Wow , nice gems there mate,intense blues

 

[Lefty]

Bloody oath! That is full-on colour saturation. Almost hints of violet to my eyes as well. Beautiful stones Heatho.

I think the main problem with the really dark blues with a green cross is the tendency to cut a stone that looks almost black.

But I can't get over the intensity of the colour in those stones. Very nice.

 

[Highway1]

Hi Heatho, Yes I am with you I like those dark blues, I call them "Royal Blue". I found a 2.85 carrot one, pic on previous topic. They look really special. I will get that stone cut here locally. My prospecting interests are sapphire and gold hunting, gold is good "x" amount of $ per gram, sapphire who knows?? per carrot, however the stones look fantastic.
Cheers Max

 

[Heatho]

Thanks fellas, yeah they are 2 of my fav stones in the collection so far, I gave Barney a slightly bigger one of the same colour to cut when he gets the chance.

I agree Lefty they can look very dark when cut but I still love that colour. They are Blue on Blue, no Green crosstable at all, they will still cut pretty dark though.

These are the best ones that came back from Thailand, there are a few Royal Blues the same as the 2 above, they are dark but just right I think.If they were just a bit bigger I would have had them done here but they were so small it did not justify the cost.

It's the Sky Blues which seem to be the silkiest, not all but a lot are, the royals if clear are usually very clear.

Yeah I agree Max, I'm happy to go for either too but Sapphires really do it for me. Are you heading back to Inverell this season?

 

[Lefty]

And a good range of blue colour shade there as well. Are they all from Inverell? I'll have to check now if that little blue I got the other day has a green cross or if it's just blue on blue. I think it will cut but if it does it will be pretty small - but pretty as well.

How far is it from Sydney up to where you dig? For me it's about 5 hours not counting stops from my place to the claims. If I lived somewhere closer such as Emerald, I'd be out there just about every weekend barring summer. I suggested that we should move out to Emerald but was told a flat "no"