someone else have a go im busy typing
Australian History
- Thread starter the duck
- Start date
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headbut
Paul
C'mon then RR , jump in with one of your headspinners 
Oh schweps. Wait one
Still on rare animals.
1st described 1843. Then assumed extinct.
Found in abundance in abundance 1931 and vanished by 1935?
Bring it
1st described 1843. Then assumed extinct.
Found in abundance in abundance 1931 and vanished by 1935?
Bring it
Part 1
Just finished my scuba course with a friend in the early 80s as i had been spearfishing since i was 12 and decided to go scuba rather than snorkelling and myself and my friend were looking for somewhere to explore we decided williamstown but as we were driving past elwood beach i had wondered what lay in a spot that had been to deep to spearfish
So we pulled up and put on our gear and went out after about 10 minutes we started to find some bronze nails about 12 inches long and 5/8 diameter so we went to the surface and decided they must be from a boat or ship and we started gridding the area
After another 20 minutes i found some large timbers and on further searching found the capstan or the anchor winch half buried we both started fanning in the sand and all of a sudden there was a big round object starting to come through i thought omg its a cannonball but instead it was a coconut so must have drifted in at a later time
Out of air we swam back to shore we had four nails and a small piece of copper
I then started on the research looking for wrecks off this area and found there were lots around the area but none close to this one as it seemed strange that a large ship could sink and not be reported as there would have had to be survivors
Got all of the shipwreck books on port phillip bay but still nothing but there may have been one a ship called the Margaret Russell that was wreck near red bluff in 1861 and as Point ormond was a red bluff as well they could have got the position wrong and that ship was blown ashore and this one wasnt
So back to diving started a grid pattern around the original area which took about 3 months of 2 dives every weekend about 200 metres from the original find i found the main part of the hull buried deep in sand and a debris field all around it sticking out of the hull were these bronze nails and some heavier bronze bolts up to a meter long and in the middle of the wreck was a steel plate about the size of a small car
Swimming in ever larger circles i then found 1 anchor and 3 masts that looked liked they had been cut off with an axe very rough at one end the total area was about 5 acres
Now i had been collecting antique bottles for several years before this and i thought if i could find a piece of china or a piece of a bottle i could date the ship but found nothing
I then started to look at construction and found the same nails and bolts in a marine archaeological book of australia but it couldnt be true as there were of the tryal in western australia and that went down in 1622 and melbourne wasnt settled till 1835 although it was explored in 1803 by Grimes
So now i had a problem if it was pre settlement there would be no info on it so i went to the western australian maritime musuem to have a look at the spikes for myself and they were very similar i was now worried what do i do next
I decided to look at john batmans and pascoe fawkners logs to see if anything pointed to anything pre settlement that they had found and low and behold batman while digging is his garden in 1836 found some pots and pans aha i had it the smoking gun and fawkner described two skeletons being found at elster creek in brighton which was the creek directly opposite where the ship had been wrecked
Now i had survivors but i needed more evidence so who was here earlier than batman i thought, and had left his memoirs, William Buckley, he had been here since 1803 and lived with the aboriginals for 30 years so if there had been a shipwreck he would have known about it
So i read several accounts of his time here and then some of my facts were blown out of the water the first one was buckley described he crossed a large river with his companions and we threw away our cooking gear this was the stuff batman found 30 years later and his companions decided that they wanted to leave and go back to Lt collins and the ship so they lit signal fires and ran up and down with their shirts on poles hoping someone would come and pick them up but they didnt so they decided to walk back and this may have been the 2 bodies found by elster creek
Part 2 tomorrow night
Just finished my scuba course with a friend in the early 80s as i had been spearfishing since i was 12 and decided to go scuba rather than snorkelling and myself and my friend were looking for somewhere to explore we decided williamstown but as we were driving past elwood beach i had wondered what lay in a spot that had been to deep to spearfish
So we pulled up and put on our gear and went out after about 10 minutes we started to find some bronze nails about 12 inches long and 5/8 diameter so we went to the surface and decided they must be from a boat or ship and we started gridding the area
After another 20 minutes i found some large timbers and on further searching found the capstan or the anchor winch half buried we both started fanning in the sand and all of a sudden there was a big round object starting to come through i thought omg its a cannonball but instead it was a coconut so must have drifted in at a later time
Out of air we swam back to shore we had four nails and a small piece of copper
I then started on the research looking for wrecks off this area and found there were lots around the area but none close to this one as it seemed strange that a large ship could sink and not be reported as there would have had to be survivors
Got all of the shipwreck books on port phillip bay but still nothing but there may have been one a ship called the Margaret Russell that was wreck near red bluff in 1861 and as Point ormond was a red bluff as well they could have got the position wrong and that ship was blown ashore and this one wasnt
So back to diving started a grid pattern around the original area which took about 3 months of 2 dives every weekend about 200 metres from the original find i found the main part of the hull buried deep in sand and a debris field all around it sticking out of the hull were these bronze nails and some heavier bronze bolts up to a meter long and in the middle of the wreck was a steel plate about the size of a small car
Swimming in ever larger circles i then found 1 anchor and 3 masts that looked liked they had been cut off with an axe very rough at one end the total area was about 5 acres
Now i had been collecting antique bottles for several years before this and i thought if i could find a piece of china or a piece of a bottle i could date the ship but found nothing
I then started to look at construction and found the same nails and bolts in a marine archaeological book of australia but it couldnt be true as there were of the tryal in western australia and that went down in 1622 and melbourne wasnt settled till 1835 although it was explored in 1803 by Grimes
So now i had a problem if it was pre settlement there would be no info on it so i went to the western australian maritime musuem to have a look at the spikes for myself and they were very similar i was now worried what do i do next
I decided to look at john batmans and pascoe fawkners logs to see if anything pointed to anything pre settlement that they had found and low and behold batman while digging is his garden in 1836 found some pots and pans aha i had it the smoking gun and fawkner described two skeletons being found at elster creek in brighton which was the creek directly opposite where the ship had been wrecked
Now i had survivors but i needed more evidence so who was here earlier than batman i thought, and had left his memoirs, William Buckley, he had been here since 1803 and lived with the aboriginals for 30 years so if there had been a shipwreck he would have known about it
So i read several accounts of his time here and then some of my facts were blown out of the water the first one was buckley described he crossed a large river with his companions and we threw away our cooking gear this was the stuff batman found 30 years later and his companions decided that they wanted to leave and go back to Lt collins and the ship so they lit signal fires and ran up and down with their shirts on poles hoping someone would come and pick them up but they didnt so they decided to walk back and this may have been the 2 bodies found by elster creek
Part 2 tomorrow night
OMFG Duck. That is a most amazing tale. The discovery of an unknown shipwreck is truly rare in itself. But the links to other major historical events and people adds another dimension. Several of those events and people have recently been part of our history quiz. Buckley, the Tryal for example.
Can't wait for part 2 of this story. Thanks
RR
Can't wait for part 2 of this story. Thanks
RR
headbut
Paul
Desert Rat Kangaroo
correct HB A little more info...
Because Australia is so vast and arid and difficult a landscape to study, and because the modest population base produces comparatively few scientists for the amount of ground to be covered, and because, above all, the animals within it are so often small, furtive, nocturnal, and sometimes mysterious, even now nobody really knows quite what is out there. Any list of Australian wildlife is arrestingly punctuated with qualified comments like possibly extinct or thought to be endangered or may survive in some remote areas. The difficulties are well illustrated, I think, by the uncertain fate of the oolacunta, or desert rat kangaroo. Nearly everything that is known about this interesting creature is owed to two men. The first was a nineteenth-century naturalist named John Gould, who studied and described the animal in 1843. It had, according to Gould, the shape and manner of a kangaroo but was only about the size of a rabbit. What particularly distinguished it was that it could move at very high speeds for unusually long distances. Since that one initial report, however, the oolacunta had not been seen. Enter Hedley Herbert Finlayson. Finlayson was a chemist by profession, but devoted much of his life to searching for rare native animals. In 1931 he led an expedition that traveled by horseback deep into the interior, to the perpetual furnace that is Sturts Stony Desert. Upon arriving, Finlayson was surprised to discover that the little desert rat kangaroo, far from being on the verge of extinction or possibly gone altogether, was both visible and clearly thriving. The animals speed and endurance were just as Gould had reported. Once when Finlayson and his colleagues gave chase on horseback a desert rat kangaroo ran twelve miles without pause through the searing heat of day, exhausting three horses in the process. Ounce for ounce, the little oolacunta may well have been the greatest runner (or bouncer, actually) the animal kingdom has ever produced. Returning to society, Finlayson reported his exciting find and naturalists and zoologists everywhere dutifully amended their texts to account for the desert rat kangaroos rediscovery. Over the next three years, Finlayson made further expeditions, but in 1935 when he returned once more he was nonplussed, as you may imagine, to discover that the little desert rat kangaroo had quietly vanishedas utterly as it had after Goulds single sighting in 1843. It hasnt been seen since
headbut
Paul
What make of pie am I eating ?
Going by your answers... chicken?
No wait.... dodo?
Lol lol lol
No wait.... dodo?
Lol lol lol
headbut
Paul
Whats wrong with my answers , the question bored me , so I ended it quick BHAHAHHA
headbut
Paul
You were outdone by Ducks amazing story sorry mate
headbut
Paul
Who was Kate Lloyd
Kate Lloyd was Mr Lloyd's daughter.
Next
Next
Early to bed for this little princess xxx
Night all.
Night all.
headbut
Paul
bawkbucbucbuc
headbut
Paul
Im going to Tuena tomorrow, let you know if I make it
headbut said:Im going to Tuena tomorrow, let you know if I make it
Best of luck HB.
headbut said:What make of pie am I eating ?
Humble?
Kate Lloyd was Ned Kelly's cousin.
Depending on which articles you read, she was "very fond of him" and/or "Ned was in love with her"
Part 2
Well after reading about Wiiliam buckley, he did see two people brought ashore and shot in port phillip bay but this was when the french, american, and british whalers were operating down around the coast.
I also read Lt Collins account of his settlement near sorrento, which was actually quite funny as he said the local aborigines on the other side of the bay seemed very vicious and possibly cannibalistic as he had seen fires and people running up and down the beach with large spears with flags attached so he never dared to send a boat over to this hostile place
This was infact buckleys friends trying to get a boat to come and pick them up
His friends then left never to be seen again, and buckley was fortunate to find a grave with a spear in it so he grabbed the spear and walked over a hill and was seen by the people who had just buried their friend, and they thought he was the reincarnation of murrengirk the aboriginal who had died of injuries in a tribal fight
Now because of this he was never allowed to be involved in a tribal fight again, so he became friends with several local tribes and therefore this kept him out of trouble
Well now i had to resort to physical evidence so i went back out to the wreck and started fanning with hand paddles to see if i could uncover anything that would help me date the ship and being careful i did not disturb anything as i knew that i would have to declare this ship to the victorian government eventually, but i wanted to find out a date and the ships name first, if i could, i found nothing not a piece of glass or pottery
So i started researching the whaling ships, but very little is written as they didn't want anyone to know where they were getting the seals and whales from, i tried to find about about the mahogany ship which im convinced is an early whaler as no ships were constructed out of mahogany anyway, but little is known about this ship either it could have drifted miles before washing up on the beach and like mine there should have been survivors and they would have built some sort of shelters, one would think
Next down to south melbourne for some aerial photos, to see if i could see any other parts of the wreck, so i have to get several pictures over several years as sand could have covered some parts of the wreck, and with these i find what could be the second anchor, but after searching i cant find it so it must be sanded over but looks like i can tell the story of how the ship was wrecked
It looks like the ship was sailing close to the land in a strong North west wind but in melbourne a strong north west is usually followed by a strong South westerly change that whips up large seas as the waves travel down the length of the bay
The first anchor was laid just off the reef and must have dragged and the ship has ended up on the reef they then have cut the masts off to lighten the ship and the second anchor was set just on the other side of the reef but the ship must have been holed and when swinging on the anchor it has sunk, and eventually broken up over many years
I then decided the only way to proceed was to report the ship in the hope it would be checked, and some research done on it by the marine archaeologists so i went to the department of planning and community development along with all the stuff i had and sat down and let them see everything i had
Now the law for shipwrecks is very stringent and i expected they would keep everything, but they kept the parts for study and then they were returned to me some time later and a year later i received and award and certificate for finding the wreck
'
So it still leaves a lot of unanswered questions, The ships name, purpose, and what happened to the survivors, hopefully one day we will find out but i feel the funding for this department is very limited as there are not a lot of votes to be gained in marine archaeology, but they must cover themselves in case a treasure ship is found
The historic shipwreck act can be seen here
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2012C00174
Most of the parts are still at my parents but next week i will post some pictures and photos of the award
Well after reading about Wiiliam buckley, he did see two people brought ashore and shot in port phillip bay but this was when the french, american, and british whalers were operating down around the coast.
I also read Lt Collins account of his settlement near sorrento, which was actually quite funny as he said the local aborigines on the other side of the bay seemed very vicious and possibly cannibalistic as he had seen fires and people running up and down the beach with large spears with flags attached so he never dared to send a boat over to this hostile place
This was infact buckleys friends trying to get a boat to come and pick them up
His friends then left never to be seen again, and buckley was fortunate to find a grave with a spear in it so he grabbed the spear and walked over a hill and was seen by the people who had just buried their friend, and they thought he was the reincarnation of murrengirk the aboriginal who had died of injuries in a tribal fight
Now because of this he was never allowed to be involved in a tribal fight again, so he became friends with several local tribes and therefore this kept him out of trouble
Well now i had to resort to physical evidence so i went back out to the wreck and started fanning with hand paddles to see if i could uncover anything that would help me date the ship and being careful i did not disturb anything as i knew that i would have to declare this ship to the victorian government eventually, but i wanted to find out a date and the ships name first, if i could, i found nothing not a piece of glass or pottery
So i started researching the whaling ships, but very little is written as they didn't want anyone to know where they were getting the seals and whales from, i tried to find about about the mahogany ship which im convinced is an early whaler as no ships were constructed out of mahogany anyway, but little is known about this ship either it could have drifted miles before washing up on the beach and like mine there should have been survivors and they would have built some sort of shelters, one would think
Next down to south melbourne for some aerial photos, to see if i could see any other parts of the wreck, so i have to get several pictures over several years as sand could have covered some parts of the wreck, and with these i find what could be the second anchor, but after searching i cant find it so it must be sanded over but looks like i can tell the story of how the ship was wrecked
It looks like the ship was sailing close to the land in a strong North west wind but in melbourne a strong north west is usually followed by a strong South westerly change that whips up large seas as the waves travel down the length of the bay
The first anchor was laid just off the reef and must have dragged and the ship has ended up on the reef they then have cut the masts off to lighten the ship and the second anchor was set just on the other side of the reef but the ship must have been holed and when swinging on the anchor it has sunk, and eventually broken up over many years
I then decided the only way to proceed was to report the ship in the hope it would be checked, and some research done on it by the marine archaeologists so i went to the department of planning and community development along with all the stuff i had and sat down and let them see everything i had
Now the law for shipwrecks is very stringent and i expected they would keep everything, but they kept the parts for study and then they were returned to me some time later and a year later i received and award and certificate for finding the wreck
'
So it still leaves a lot of unanswered questions, The ships name, purpose, and what happened to the survivors, hopefully one day we will find out but i feel the funding for this department is very limited as there are not a lot of votes to be gained in marine archaeology, but they must cover themselves in case a treasure ship is found
The historic shipwreck act can be seen here
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2012C00174
Most of the parts are still at my parents but next week i will post some pictures and photos of the award
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