Ancient Roman or Celtic coin ?

[Paulmarr]

Doesn't look hammered to me ...

 

[Ridge Runner]

Every coin I have dug up over 400 years old has a round edge to it like that and the thin ones that are about over 1800 years old are either split from when they were hammered or due to the Acid in the soils IE found in the woods or ploughed farm land that has been fertilized, and the more the land has been farmed the more eaten away they are, But coins from old forests and woodlands are the worst,

John

 

[Paulmarr]

Hi John

The same coin was also found in the USA by a detectorist - same look and condition. If the motif was different or other obvious defects that could identify the hammering process then I would be persuaded to think otherwise but they just look too much like each other - like a machine made them.

By all means send it away and get it checked - I would be most happy to be proven wrong and heavymetal to be the big winner - surely if it's real it's worth some $$$ but to save him from the big disappointment I thought I would float the repro theory out there. I am sure someone is having a lend of detectorists by dropping one here and there for us to find...

How deep was it found?

 

[Ridge Runner]

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/1634/1387970852_pc150776.jpg

Doesn't look hammered to me ...

If you look at the gold one the cut is not on the horses chest the two marks in front of the horses head the dot is missing the rear muscles on the horses leg are to defined with marks,

Now Look at the first one and look at the blistering on the rear Rump and also Notice the damage to the first one and the edge is eaten away by the soil,

The gold one is a is too Polished, Gold Statere have a Matt almost cast finish to them and do Not Shine and they can be anywhere from 5mm to 16mm across, the 5mm ones are called Quarter Staters and the ones the size of a 5c piece are half staters and so on.

these two coins are similar but the wear marks and the production marks on the first one look real, of coarse I could be wrong, But the gold one is too polished and smooth for it to be real, See the green dot between the 2 ONES on the left that only happens when a coin has been in the ground a very long time,

John

 

[Paulmarr]

The second one was definitely cleaned and polished and I think the first one would come up shiny too if I put it under the bench grinder with a polishing wheel on it.

I am of the old school ... if it seems to be unbelievable it probably is ... but a visit to the museum or the Canberra mint to show to an expert will remove all doubt. I have even found gold jewellery stamped with 22K and after testing found it to be 19K - so maybe putting it under an XRF will give the metal content in percentages which should also remove all doubt.

 

[Ridge Runner]

It might well be fake, But I am pointing out the parts of it that do relate to the coins I have found and seen and so far It looks almost fool proof,

John

 

[Ridge Runner]

The second one was definitely cleaned and polished and I think the first one would come up shiny too if I put it under the bench grinder with a polishing wheel on it.

I am of the old school ... if it seems to be unbelievable it probably is ... but a visit to the museum or the Canberra mint to show to an expert will remove all doubt. I have even found gold jewellery stamped with 22K and after testing found it to be 19K - so maybe putting it under an XRF will give the metal content in percentages which should also remove all doubt.

Yeah good Idea, Maybe a phone call to a Local UNI might help as they have quite a few Arkie's there who might know or have some to compare it with, But its no good weighing it or measuring it because they were Hand struck and no 2 were the same, so that don't help,aye.

John

 

[Paulmarr]

Here are some hammered coins ...

Yes they have been amateurishly made ... By a couple of detectorists no less ... But it shows if we can throw something together the expert reproductionists can make a much better looking and realistic copy ...

 

[Paulmarr]

Finding out the metal content may be useful if it is discovered an alloy mix not available in the 1600s.....

 

[casper]

facsinating subject is old coins ..... these look cast and not hammered like an old coin would be and there are detail differences that could be from the casting moulds also the metals seem different - one yellowish and one silverish. Show us the reverse...... I have a boxed collection of replica australian coins (includes holey dollar and dump) all are blank on the backside.

casper

 

[Ridge Runner]

Here are some hammered coins ...

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k52/paulmarr/piratecoins_zpsed6826b1.jpg

Yes they have been amateurishly made ... By a couple of detectorists no less ... But it shows if we can throw something together the expert reproductionists can make a much better looking and realistic copy ...

I know you can buy replica coins from the museums and English Heritage, But I have never seen them any where else

 

[Paulmarr]

Here are some hammered coins ...

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k52/paulmarr/piratecoins_zpsed6826b1.jpg

Yes they have been amateurishly made ... By a couple of detectorists no less ... But it shows if we can throw something together the expert reproductionists can make a much better looking and realistic copy ...

I know you can buy replica coins from the museums and English Heritage, But I have never seen them any where else

They are everywhere ....

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SILVER-P...291227228650?pt=AU_Coins2&hash=item43ce7ed9ea

I see 1930 pennies regularly

 

[Ridge Runner]

facsinating subject is old coins ..... these look cast and not hammered like an old coin would be and there are detail differences that could be from the casting moulds also the metals seem different - one yellowish and one silverish. Show us the reverse...... I have a boxed collection of replica australian coins (includes holey dollar and dump) all are blank on the backside.

https://www.prospectingaustralia.co...0848_screen_shot_2015-02-09_at_1.44.44_pm.png

casper

If the gold one was real it would look very orange as they have a high copper content, The other one has been in the ground for quite a while as you can see the edge is crumbling and it has green copper blisters on it which is normal with old coins, as to whether it is real I can not be sure, the detail looks right and the damage is right, so really it needs an expert to view it, In the 1800s over here they use to make copies of old coins and whether that is one of those made back then It is Possible??? BUT some of those copies are Worth more than the real thing due to their rarity, so if it is then it could be worth something.

John

 

[Ridge Runner]

Here are some hammered coins ...

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k52/paulmarr/piratecoins_zpsed6826b1.jpg

Yes they have been amateurishly made ... By a couple of detectorists no less ... But it shows if we can throw something together the expert reproductionists can make a much better looking and realistic copy ...

I know you can buy replica coins from the museums and English Heritage, But I have never seen them any where else

They are everywhere ....

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SILVER-P...291227228650?pt=AU_Coins2&hash=item43ce7ed9ea

I see 1930 pennies regularly

I must have about 200 coins from the 1700s that I have Dug up and some Roman coins that are not in Great condition and I have the Handle from a Centurions Helmet along with some Lead Roman Strap ends and Musket balls dating back to the 1400s,
The Romans were here from around 55BC and invaded in 43AD to about 450AD.

 

[casper]

thanks RR very interesting... if Heavymetal could show us the backside of the coin that would be helpful.

casper

 

[heavymetal]

Sorry I forgot to put the other side up. Here it is. I have had a lot of people look at this coin and not one of them has been able to determine if it is real or fake. The best story I have heard so far is that it is a Templar repo which aparently was a common thing for the Templars to do. Also the fact that it doesn't have a head on one side means it could have been used in a message by the Templars ??? Got me stuffed ! I just like how much unknown there is about this coin. One day I may find out.

 

[Sandta]

Its still a cool find regardless
It certainly makes for a good conversation piece

 

[casper]

thanks HM - because of the absence of a ruler's or soverign's head I reckon that what you have found is a talisman and not currency aka "a coin".......

just my opinion as i'm no expert.

casper

 

[Goldtarget]

It's a fantastic find. If not "genuine" then it's certainly an extremely realistic "non genuine", and worthy of admiration. It's certainly going to stay interesting long after an expert has cast their eye over it. Great find, hope it turns out to be a real relic peice/coin for you.

 

[user 5308]

How many Celtic coins have been found in Australia/New Zealand now? We are up to 3 of this type in the Netherlands and one in France! One was found near an excavation of a Roman villa which gave it some kind of status! Here is our latest find from the town of Helmond in Noord-Brabant. For the record the image on the left is identical to that on the Greek tetradrachm of Philip II of Macedonia. The first Celtic coins known were copies of Greek coins and had the head of Zeus on the other side, not a horseman.