If anyone anywhere can assist , I want the names , contact details and photos of anyone trying to ban our hobby.
I love a good conversation.
I love a good conversation.
Action Thread about HighBanking in NSW
- Thread starter HeadsUp
- Start date
Help Support Prospecting Australia:
Could I start with a colour..........I'm a finking greeeeen!!!!!
They smashed us here in Vic
They smashed us here in Vic
When i started looking for gold a few years ago and looking into the rules i ended up calling the DPI, as there had been many debates on other forums about the rules. The first bloke i talked to just said "sluicing" was illegal and did not want to hear anything else about it. When i talked to someone above him i got the same stance "sluicing" was illegal, when asked why he went on about the turbidity. I changed the topic to highbankers as we had only been out to the ford and dug up to 100 meters from the river so no turbidity, he brought up the use of a pump not being allowed due ti it being "mechanical". I quoted the rules and asked him how the pump was illegal, at first he said it was processing but when i asked him what it was processing all he could come up with was water. He then talked about the pump being connected to the highbanker and was part of it so it was still mechanical processing. I then pointed out that a highbanker could technically be run by bucketing water or by pumping into a tub and gravity feeding water(not as effective but got the point across). He then went on to say something about because there was water it was hydraulic as it was using water and therefor not allowed.... To which we went on a merry go round talking about panning and sluices also being hydraulic so therefore must be illegal... Somehow we got back to the regulations and i pointed out that
"As a fossicker you must ensure that you comply with all relevant legislation.
Other Acts that apply to fossicking include: the Forestry Act 1916, Native Title Act 1993
(Commonwealth), Fisheries Management Act 1994, National Parks and Wildlife Act 1974 (in relation
to Aboriginal cultural heritage), Water Management Act 2000 and Protection of the Environment
Operations Act 1997. "
To which i pointed out the water management act and read him the part about pumps being used for the purpose of fossicking. All he could say to that was he doubted it, he did not bother to look it up himself. At the end of the conversation he admitted that in some instances sluicing and highbanking could be done legally but he thought that most people did the wrong thing and that the DPI's stance was "sluicing is illegal".
When i then questioned him on why there was no record of anyone ever being fined, he said that they had no one to police it. I was that worked up at the time i volunteered to be finned so i could go to court to fight it but when given a time and date where i would be he said it was not in his district so he could not do anything....
At that point i decided they did not really care what the rules said but wanted to dissuade as many people from the hobby as possible.
"As a fossicker you must ensure that you comply with all relevant legislation.
Other Acts that apply to fossicking include: the Forestry Act 1916, Native Title Act 1993
(Commonwealth), Fisheries Management Act 1994, National Parks and Wildlife Act 1974 (in relation
to Aboriginal cultural heritage), Water Management Act 2000 and Protection of the Environment
Operations Act 1997. "
To which i pointed out the water management act and read him the part about pumps being used for the purpose of fossicking. All he could say to that was he doubted it, he did not bother to look it up himself. At the end of the conversation he admitted that in some instances sluicing and highbanking could be done legally but he thought that most people did the wrong thing and that the DPI's stance was "sluicing is illegal".
When i then questioned him on why there was no record of anyone ever being fined, he said that they had no one to police it. I was that worked up at the time i volunteered to be finned so i could go to court to fight it but when given a time and date where i would be he said it was not in his district so he could not do anything....
At that point i decided they did not really care what the rules said but wanted to dissuade as many people from the hobby as possible.
Good work Shivan
just a thought to throw at the page.
If govt wants to crappp on our heads as hobbyists because the gold we find is not taxable , then i say lets pay tax on it.
Seriously ! . because if they want to tax us on what we win then they must also make the equipment we buy to be tax deductable
95 % of hobbyist prospectors dont find enough gold to pay for the equipment they buy and the fuel they use to go out looking so i would see us all getting a tax refund each year on that basis.
"just a thought"
:|
Reality is , i think there are public servants sitting around toally ignorant about the hobby, getting a fatt aaarse with no work to do so they say "bugger it . lets find something to change so we feel important this week"
and so they add another f**kup to their long list of underachievments
just a thought to throw at the page.
If govt wants to crappp on our heads as hobbyists because the gold we find is not taxable , then i say lets pay tax on it.
Seriously ! . because if they want to tax us on what we win then they must also make the equipment we buy to be tax deductable
95 % of hobbyist prospectors dont find enough gold to pay for the equipment they buy and the fuel they use to go out looking so i would see us all getting a tax refund each year on that basis.
"just a thought"
:|
Reality is , i think there are public servants sitting around toally ignorant about the hobby, getting a fatt aaarse with no work to do so they say "bugger it . lets find something to change so we feel important this week"
and so they add another f**kup to their long list of underachievments
Goldtarget
(AKA OldGT)
I'm wondering when a lobby group is going to organize a big group meet. .. Surely that would flush out the naysayers. Sometimes you must draw the enemy to ground they do not want to defend.
In NSW They would have to change a freaking huge amount of laws to cover this.
The pump is used to transfer water.
The High Banker is a "Water Sluice"
We load it by Hand.
I can see where there would be a problem where some idiot dickhead has dug out a river bank.
I also see a lot of area's that have been dredged.
It really upsets me that we who do the right thing as a minority group get cut to s?1t because of an even lesser minority group.
.
I also know for a fact that the person who wrote the laws in a State Forrest is a prospector him self, And has no problem AS LONG AS THE RIGHT THING IS DONE.
Which the majority of us do.
.
This country is slowly being turned over to a small bunch of seamless idiots who know Jack Crap about sweet stuff all.
.
How many Prospectors are in this Country.
I bet we could cast a minority vote to over throw a majority.
...
The pump is used to transfer water.
The High Banker is a "Water Sluice"
We load it by Hand.
I can see where there would be a problem where some idiot dickhead has dug out a river bank.
I also see a lot of area's that have been dredged.
It really upsets me that we who do the right thing as a minority group get cut to s?1t because of an even lesser minority group.
.
I also know for a fact that the person who wrote the laws in a State Forrest is a prospector him self, And has no problem AS LONG AS THE RIGHT THING IS DONE.
Which the majority of us do.
.
This country is slowly being turned over to a small bunch of seamless idiots who know Jack Crap about sweet stuff all.
.
How many Prospectors are in this Country.
I bet we could cast a minority vote to over throw a majority.
...
Twapster
Peter
Im in!
That's why we need to get everyone we can to join and support NAPFA, so we can have numbers behind us to make these changes.
Goldtarget said:
No . you have to position the fight where it will produce a change
The politicians would hide behind closed doors in Cantberra and laugh at "the plebs"
Police would be told were are all feral criminals and we would be arrested if we assembled or marched anywhere.
My thinking is;
1) identify the enemy
2) identify what they are trying to change and why
3) If you can identify what reasons they think they are doing it for , then seek to enlighten them diplomatically with better information and an improved understanding.
4) not for public disclosure at this time
5) not for public disclosure at this time
6) not for public disclosure at this time
7) find some cheap agistment for 100 angry elephants
Creekbed
Neville
A lesson I learned many years ago.
Don't ever ask a ranger or DPI official for an interpretation of a rule and don't ever invite them to look over your equipment or how you use it.
They will always make a point of being disagreeable, they love pulling out the old "turbidity" card and playing it........remember this same Govt dept are incharge of Fishing too, and then they will go back to the office and do whatever they can to try and find a way of finding your equipment illegal. They are not interested in gaining a better understanding.They have blinkers on and only know the pre rehearsed speil issued to them by the Dept. Most have fallen into the bucket of green paint and thats why they seek out the jobs they do.
Those of us that have been gold prospecting for many years and I'm talking about before the rule changes in the 80s and 90s have learned to just be quiet, work quietly and don't draw any attention.
We've been doing this for 30 or 40 years but now with all the "Instant Prospectors" which have popped up since the price of gold started to creep up in around 2007 and the ease of getting equipment and information through the internet this has drawn interest from those we don't want.
Don't invite them anywhere and don't show or tell them anything. If you don't say anything they have nothing to respond to or work with.
In saying all this I have never heard of anyone being fined or having equipment confiscated for using a highbanker or river sluice in NSW.
CB
Don't ever ask a ranger or DPI official for an interpretation of a rule and don't ever invite them to look over your equipment or how you use it.
They will always make a point of being disagreeable, they love pulling out the old "turbidity" card and playing it........remember this same Govt dept are incharge of Fishing too, and then they will go back to the office and do whatever they can to try and find a way of finding your equipment illegal. They are not interested in gaining a better understanding.They have blinkers on and only know the pre rehearsed speil issued to them by the Dept. Most have fallen into the bucket of green paint and thats why they seek out the jobs they do.
Those of us that have been gold prospecting for many years and I'm talking about before the rule changes in the 80s and 90s have learned to just be quiet, work quietly and don't draw any attention.
We've been doing this for 30 or 40 years but now with all the "Instant Prospectors" which have popped up since the price of gold started to creep up in around 2007 and the ease of getting equipment and information through the internet this has drawn interest from those we don't want.
Don't invite them anywhere and don't show or tell them anything. If you don't say anything they have nothing to respond to or work with.
In saying all this I have never heard of anyone being fined or having equipment confiscated for using a highbanker or river sluice in NSW.
CB
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2014
- Messages
- 124
- Reaction score
- 48
There are always going to be more problems the closer you are to a regional city. More people in the parks/reserves means more complaints from the rubbernecks that have bugger all else to do. If you set up the highbanker 100m from the carpark whether your right or wrong its going to be a frustrating day answering to every sticky nose you attract. a 5km hike into the wilderness usually stops that.
My point is, the greenies and do-gooders are never going to stop trying to take away our rights. Alot of the heat has come from the "instant prospectors" (thanks Creekbed) that have no idea what theyre doing.
The rangers are only acting on the complaints that they are getting so its worthwhile letting them know that the shitty nappies dumped in the bush and rubbish bins overflowing with household rubbish do not come from fair dinkum prospectors.
My point is, the greenies and do-gooders are never going to stop trying to take away our rights. Alot of the heat has come from the "instant prospectors" (thanks Creekbed) that have no idea what theyre doing.
The rangers are only acting on the complaints that they are getting so its worthwhile letting them know that the shitty nappies dumped in the bush and rubbish bins overflowing with household rubbish do not come from fair dinkum prospectors.
Yes the bloke at the DPI did bring up the fisheries mob with the turbidity now i think about it, that was the only thing in the whole conversation it seemed that they could get us on if they wanted. He also laughed at me when i said we needed a group like PMAV or APLA and said "We had our chance in the 80's" no idea what he ment but we did end up with NAPFA.
At the time of the call i had gotten myself very worked up after some discussion on the forums and just wanted an answer. When i posted on the forums at the time about what had happened, most people seemed to just want to leave the issue alone and not make waves as the thought was rules would be changed for the worse.
I can understand that thinking but in my opinion with that attitude we as a group are only ever going to loose out, and eventually what we are doing will be illegal.
We have lost enough ground to national parks, conservation areas and the like already, we all complain about it but what will that get us?
Just a personal observation, but as a group i think we are really good at complaining about things yet doing little about it, and arguing among ourselves to the point that coming together to fight an issue would be near impossible.
I have no idea if we did ever manage to come together as a group if we would have more or less people that the greens out there, but surly even a small groups voice in protest is better than none?
At the time of the call i had gotten myself very worked up after some discussion on the forums and just wanted an answer. When i posted on the forums at the time about what had happened, most people seemed to just want to leave the issue alone and not make waves as the thought was rules would be changed for the worse.
I can understand that thinking but in my opinion with that attitude we as a group are only ever going to loose out, and eventually what we are doing will be illegal.
We have lost enough ground to national parks, conservation areas and the like already, we all complain about it but what will that get us?
Just a personal observation, but as a group i think we are really good at complaining about things yet doing little about it, and arguing among ourselves to the point that coming together to fight an issue would be near impossible.
I have no idea if we did ever manage to come together as a group if we would have more or less people that the greens out there, but surly even a small groups voice in protest is better than none?
I would consider myself an "instant" prospector born of goldrush alaska and prospecting internet forums. I did not do it as get rich quick scheme because of rising gold prices but in an effort to get fit after a a few years of bad health. The first thing i did was to go out of my way to learn the rules, good thing because the gold field just round the corner where i wanted to go was national park
I ended up enjoying not only getting out in the bush again but researching the how and where to find gold. Enjoyed it all so much i headed to UNI to learn a bit about geology.
Now just because i was only born in 1980 and did not find out i was interested in prospecting till 4-5 years ago, does this mean i do not have as much right as you older blokes to go out and give it a go? I understand the amounts of idiots out there has increased with the amount of people prospecting but i think its a bit rough to blame anyone new to the hobby for any problems being had.
There are a lot of "weekend warriors" out there wrecking the place for everyone, but they are not just the newer prospectors though i am sure there are a few.
I ended up enjoying not only getting out in the bush again but researching the how and where to find gold. Enjoyed it all so much i headed to UNI to learn a bit about geology.
Now just because i was only born in 1980 and did not find out i was interested in prospecting till 4-5 years ago, does this mean i do not have as much right as you older blokes to go out and give it a go? I understand the amounts of idiots out there has increased with the amount of people prospecting but i think its a bit rough to blame anyone new to the hobby for any problems being had.
There are a lot of "weekend warriors" out there wrecking the place for everyone, but they are not just the newer prospectors though i am sure there are a few.
If the fight has to be elevated to a higher degree then I think having a national body will be needed
We can tackle that issue if and when required , but I imagine we could accumulate 30,000 members nationally and "send the elephants" to take it up in Canberra
We can tackle that issue if and when required , but I imagine we could accumulate 30,000 members nationally and "send the elephants" to take it up in Canberra
Creekbed
Neville
shivan said:I would consider myself an "instant" prospector born of goldrush alaska and prospecting internet forums. I did not do it as get rich quick scheme because of rising gold prices but in an effort to get fit after a a few years of bad health. The first thing i did was to go out of my way to learn the rules, good thing because the gold field just round the corner where i wanted to go was national park
I ended up enjoying not only getting out in the bush again but researching the how and where to find gold. Enjoyed it all so much i headed to UNI to learn a bit about geology.
Now just because i was only born in 1980 and did not find out i was interested in prospecting till 4-5 years ago, does this mean i do not have as much right as you older blokes to go out and give it a go? I understand the amounts of idiots out there has increased with the amount of people prospecting but i think its a bit rough to blame anyone new to the hobby for any problems being had.
There are a lot of "weekend warriors" out there wrecking the place for everyone, but they are not just the newer prospectors though i am sure there are a few.
Hey Shivan, Mate from knowing you through the forums you are certainly not one of those I was referring to as "Instant Prospectors" Far from it. You come across as very responsible and genuine in your interest in the hobby and your yearning for more knowledge is to be commended. You have the true spirit of prospecting in your bones mate
My reference was towards those who only want to know where to go, do no research and bludge on everyone, have no consideration for the environment or keeping to the rules, both written and unwritten. The idiots who think they will get rich and be set for life. Thankfully these people tend to loose interest almost as fast as they became involved. Sadly they F&ck the place up and ruin it for those trying to do the right thing.
Cheers Creekbed
Goldtarget
(AKA OldGT)
I believe you've hit the nail on the head shivan, this expectation that there's some sort of impending doom to our rights is only digging the grave deeper. There's thousands of holes across this country dug by men that helped build our cultural identity, and certainly in Victoria helped build the state. This backwards notion that diplomacy has somehow kept the status quo is inherently flawed, most prospectors rights have been diminished. Perhaps environmentally and sustainably we have a a responsibility to ensure the freedom for future generations, but I look at so many other pursuits and wonder what the help is so wrong about washing some rocks?
The reality is most aspects of what we do has little impact on the wider community and the environment any way, I personally refuse to be held over a barrel especially when I see the example set out by our forefathers. Hold to the code.
The reality is most aspects of what we do has little impact on the wider community and the environment any way, I personally refuse to be held over a barrel especially when I see the example set out by our forefathers. Hold to the code.
True true Gympie,s gold rush saved Qld from ruin.
noncents
John
I think we are going about it the wrong way. We need a political party, like the "Shooters"and the "Australian motoring enthusiasts party" have and once we get a member in Parliament, we can have them be a thorn in the side of any government that wants to put a new bill through. We talk about how minorities can influence the majority, so we should use it to our advantage. Only need one member to be elected. If we ever could get all the outdoors people shooters, fisherman, 4wders, campers, trail bike riders etc to unite, we might get a whole new majority party that we could be all proud of.
Ps we did have one of our own in Parliament once his name was Peter Lalor.
Ps we did have one of our own in Parliament once his name was Peter Lalor.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2013
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 5
There is or was an Outdoors Recreational Party and I voted for them in the last NSW state election. their motto is "Stop The Greens" Can't find much about them at the moment so not sure if they still exist.
I believe NAPFA is already aligned with the Shooters & Fishers Party.
We will never get anywhere with lots of small single issue parties BUT if all outdoors groups could find their way to working together as one group THEN we might have a chance at changing things.
Cheers Ric
Can't find much about them at the moment so not sure if they still exist.I believe NAPFA is already aligned with the Shooters & Fishers Party.
We will never get anywhere with lots of small single issue parties BUT if all outdoors groups could find their way to working together as one group THEN we might have a chance at changing things.
Cheers Ric
