Accesssing creeks on private property

Just a reminder,
Creeks running through private are off limits within trespassing laws in NSW.You have no right to even walk or canoe through them.
For instance the Meroo is a creek, not a river!
Rivers do carry other circumstantial rights to use.
Poaching/trespassing has been on the rise on my friends property in the Windeyer district.And believe me he is over it, and will not hesitate to ring the police or persuade you off quickly.
He does enjoy legally shooting on his property with high a high calibre rifle....
So always respect someones PRIVATE PROPERTY!Basically break and enter to a land owner to just help yourself to his land.-
In the US, you wouldn't get a polite bullet of your head as warning.....

Always a controversial topic. I got hammered in a fishing group recently for saying this.

I beleive originally a land owner who owned both sides of river, owned even the river bed. And water and fish etc in it!
And the Murry river was held to ransom over paddle steamers wishing to navigate it.
In a lot of Europe, you once had to pay a tax to the owner, who just happened to own a castle over looking over it.
With finely tunned cannons if you wanted to try and run gauntlet without paying the tax.
Dont pay the ferry man till he gets you to the otherside!
A bottle of scotch or rum is a nice tax if introduced to the OWNER, before you run the gauntlet!
No need to duck in fear then....

Imagine the embarrassment of say being escorted of a property by the police, then to go to the Windeyer pub for a quiet beer with the locals.
Then farmer Brown who owned the property rocks on in to have a beer with all his mates.....
Then you get the lip in front of everyone.....
Why risk it....
If you are afraid of getting a "NO" to access, obviously you know you shouldn't be there.
But if you get a :Y:
How much better is that....

mudgee hunter said:

Just a reminder,
Creeks running through private are off limits within trespassing laws in NSW.You have no right to even walk or canoe through them.
For instance the Meroo is a creek, not a river!
Rivers do carry other circumstantial rights to use.
Poaching/trespassing has been on the rise on my friends property in the Windeyer district.And believe me he is over it, and will not hesitate to ring the police or persuade you off quickly.
He does enjoy legally shooting on his property with high a high calibre rifle....
So always respect someones PRIVATE PROPERTY!Basically break and enter to a land owner to just help yourself to his land.-
In the US, you wouldn't get a polite bullet of your head as warning.....

Click to expand...

Since when may I ask Mudgee,I would just like to know ,It used to be or still is any waterway shown on a topo map that is named you have the right of way to walk up or down with in its banks or high water mark but nothing else , if you want to eg fish gold pan , detect you need permission from the land owner .

same rules here in sth oz as far as im aware too.

Yep... "oh no not again"

In my own painful experience general advice can be generally correct or generally wrong ... and generally depends on in which state that you live because Australia is a Federation of Sovereign States.

Wherever you live the relevant information you require is readily accessible on the internet like this example for Victoria where I live...

https://www.necma.vic.gov.au/Solutions/Floodplains-Waterways/Crown-land-water-frontage. GEOVIC comes into play here because it can display crown stream reserves abutting freehold land and any applicable licences and permits that may apply.

casper

robmoto said:

mudgee hunter said:

Just a reminder,
Creeks running through private are off limits within trespassing laws in NSW.You have no right to even walk or canoe through them.
For instance the Meroo is a creek, not a river!
Rivers do carry other circumstantial rights to use.
Poaching/trespassing has been on the rise on my friends property in the Windeyer district.And believe me he is over it, and will not hesitate to ring the police or persuade you off quickly.
He does enjoy legally shooting on his property with high a high calibre rifle....
So always respect someones PRIVATE PROPERTY!Basically break and enter to a land owner to just help yourself to his land.-
In the US, you wouldn't get a polite bullet of your head as warning.....

Click to expand...

Since when may I ask Mudgee,I would just like to know ,It used to be or still is any waterway shown on a topo map that is named you have the right of way to walk up or down with in its banks or high water mark but nothing else , if you want to eg fish gold pan , detect you need permission from the land owner .

Click to expand...

Better back that up with hard facts before you get into trouble.
Do you know how many creeks there are in NSW!
Dont mix up the law of being able to fish a river via boat, accessing the river via public land or with permission via private land with a creek!

Do really think you can jump a fence, and walk up a creek bed on private land and all is ok.
State water police laws of how the water is managed on private property.
This is totally irrelevant to inviting a feild day of every land owner who has a creek flowing through their property.

If you jump a fence, enclosed land. The owner dose not need to have signs up say "PRIVATE PROPERTY"
He can simply ring the police and demand you be charged sith trespassing.
If un-gated, open gate, unfenced with out signs saying such, three verbal warnings to leave immediately, and after that, charged with trespassing if perused.
Pleading ignorance wont help much after you have jumped a fence, or stood up to a cocky with a myth.

It would be really awesome if people could show the current laws or legislation. When members start throwing opinions out there we not only get confusing information for those who are looking for an answer but also some get upset that there "facts" are being challenged.

PEACE

?.?..?
Sorry Ramjet, but when has tresspassing been an opinion?

From my time running around Aust I found it a lot easier to just go and ask for permission rather than just doing what you want to then asking why did I just get shot at. It's not a generational thing either. I've seen people older than me and people younger. It's that 1% rubbish that they think that they can do whatever they want to. Lets just bring back some common courtesy and respect for other people and property.

Cheers

Doug

mudgee hunter said:

?.?..?
Sorry Ramjet, but when has tresspassing been an opinion?

Click to expand...

I never meant to say it was MH. Sorry if it came across that way. I would just like to see something from the Gov or regulator to be a definite answer. I would never support trespassing in any way. If in doubt... stay out.

And the 1% who jump up and down preaching a myth to a cocky of four generations on his land isnt going to help the next bloke who actually calls into the homestead and dose the corrcct LEGAL thing!

Ramjet said:

mudgee hunter said:

?.?..?
Sorry Ramjet, but when has tresspassing been an opinion?

Click to expand...

I never meant to say it was MH. Sorry if it came across that way. I would just like to see something from the Gov or regulator to be a definite answer. I would never support trespassing in any way. If in doubt... stay out.

Click to expand...

Cheers Ramjet.
It is sad that we have lost so much creek and river frontage. As so many roads out this way followed the creeks as paths to drink and water your horse and rest.
And no one would deny a man and horse of such once.

This thread was started as a heads up!
Door knock firstly.
Would one with the "its ok to walk the creek bed" be brave enough to walk a creek within 30m of a homestead and wave to farmef Brown!
Or a lame myth excuse when caught red handed.
It wont sit well the cocky, or the police.
Or a court apperance!
Feel free to show me otherwise of common law in NSW of creeks. And not from 1886 that has been amended.
Or I will post a liquor law showing how every pub must provide horse accommodation/ stable for guests!

in qld we were told by police that canoes can come up your creeks and rivers on my property if they are capable to be navigated which means paddle from one end to the other without taking the boat out of the water and putting back in at another point they are not allowed to trespass above the high water mark not tide mark but were the creek runs its normal highest point and in that travel area they cant camp light fires but can fish along that water way and all fishing rules in qld still must apply but in the same travel area if they break anything fence crossing the creek or trees pump lines or anything in the creek or river that is part of the day to day running of the property finds can be issued and people just walking up the creek or river is trespassing if they have crossed a fence or not you will get in trouble all this was from the Charleville police

The same here basically for rivers in NSW.
We found a great camp site on the rivers bank when fishing once. Took a gps of its location. Tracked down the owner and asked if we could camp there.
We got a yes, and we drop a yellow belly or cod into him.
Often pops down for a beer and chat. Top bloke.

The biggest misconception people in NSW have is that any Crown Land is freely accessible for fossicking/prospecting. This is not the case!
Most Crown Lands are managed or leased & it is clearly set out in legislation + the NSW Fossicking Guidelines that you must have the permission of any land managers. These can include Councils, Local Land Services, Water NSW, Statutory Trusts, land holders etc.
Access to waterways for fossicking/prospecting often gets confused with a clause in the Fisheries Act which holds no relevance or gives no rights to us as fossickers/prospectors.

"The NSW Fisheries Management Act 1994 No 38

Part 2, Division 5, Section 38

Right to fish in certain inland waters

(1)A person may take fish from waters in a river or creek that are not subject to tidal influence despite the fact that the bed of those waters is not Crown land if, for the purpose of taking those fish, the person is in a boat on those waters or is on the bed of the river or creek.

(2)The right conferred by this section is subject to the other provisions of this Act.

(3)In this section, bed of a river or creek includes any part of the bed of the river or creek which is alternatively covered and left bare with an increase or decrease in the supply of water (other than during floods)."

There are some waterways in NSW that are still owned under old rules whereby the landowners do indeed own to the centre of the waterway. These aren't common but do exist!
All recreational activities on Crown Land are covered by the NSW Crown Lands Act & Regulations. It is the onus of any person wishing to partake in any recreational activity on any Crown Land (including waterways) or any land to know the status of that land & comply with access rules/requirements.
Even where recreational use of a Crown Land waterway is allowed access via private land is not unless permission is given.
As stated above by others - regardless of land status it's always best to approach the landowners adjacent to the waterway you want to access. Upsetting people in small regional communities won't open any gates up for you but will shut many for everyone.

a lot of people ask to go shooting or fishing on my place 9 times out of 10 we let them on and they do the right thing most are top people just wanting to get out into the bush for some rnr :Y:

As time goes by the nsw gov reclaim named creeks where boundaries used to go to the centre of the creek ,old system title , they get changed to Torrens title where the boundaries are moved back from the centre to the banks when purchased by a new owner , the waterway then is under control by Dept Land and Water.