QED users - how are you faring?

QED users how are ya's faring?
Been about 8 months since the QED became available but there's still very little info or reports on how it's faring on the goldfields. Outside of a small handful of people nobody else seems to be posting any reports on finds etc? Searching for any information is a minefield - some truths, some BS. Hard to know who to believe really & seeds of doubt do start to spring to life.

I was going to write a reply on another thread but thought I'd start this & leave that thread alone. So here's how I'm going:
Pre AGB (auto ground balance) update I had issues with audio & a possible power lead problem. The QED didn't seem to like the Avantree Bluetooth set up I was using but it was intermittent. When things were smooth I could see the potential there. I also had ground noise issues which I now believe were caused by using too much volume (threshold A) & trying to use a more responsive lower mode.
Post AGB update & now using a set of RS160 Sennheiser wireless headphones. After recommended here I did some searching & found a couple of QED users that swore by these. No interference/steady signal & plenty of volume from reports. These are much more stable with the QED than the Avantree set up I was using. An improvement but still not great. Although steadier the volume is still very quiet - I have 100% hearing but still struggled to hear the threshold at full volume last outing. Too used to getting feedback from the SDC, SD/GP/GPX & GPZ maybe? I have also kept volume (threshold A) at between the default of 30 to a max of 40 as advised any higher is counterproductive.
Testing - following advice in the manual I had set up with a 0.2gram approx. bit of gold last outing. This bit was found with the GPZ. One coil (NFA 14x7) would only signal on this piece in mode 1 (mode 1 not useable on area) - the same coil prior to getting the QED updated would signal on a smaller bit of gold in most modes with mode 5 the best. Could be the different gold? Could be the different audio set up? Stuff knows. The 11" Detech Ultra Mono I could get a signal in all modes up to 6 where it was diminished. After mode 6 there wasn't a signal or not one that would pull you up anyway. Modes 1 to 4 seemed best response but due to random ground noise I ran in 5 but still digging some ground. Higher modes just not worth it in the area (mostly small gold) based on recommended manual set up. Tried adjusting bias & volume without much improvement with both coils. The AGB feature doesn't seem to do much unless the reading is way out - still making adjustments manually mostly.
Tested on an undug GPZ target (ended up being birdshot) that was very clear on the Zed - no response from QED in any mode, bias adjustment etc. etc. It would not pick it up. I would expect a GPX with either of the coils I used to have picked it up. The QED might not like birdshot which may not be a bad thing.
Frustrating. Still no gold. This weekend might be make or break? I read refunds are available :lol:
Seriously I can see a lot of pro's to the QED:
- very light
- can be set up individually to suit
- price (can add up with set up i.e. batteries, charger, audio & extra coils quickly though)
- when I do get it set right there is definitely potential there
Cons
- low audio volume
- lack of available aftermarket parts i.e. power leads, environmental/protective covers, battery systems, wireless boosted audio known to work flawlessly etc. would be great
- user advice not easy to come by. Individual set up while being a pro can also be a con here. Everyone seems to use different batteries, audio/wireless, coils so no standardised results to compare with mostly. A lot of trial & error.

There's a lot to like about the QED but I am struggling with it after being Minelabasized :lol: I couldn't recommend it to a new detectorist & at the moment I don't believe it will match the SDC, GPX or especially the GPZ despite what others say. But that's not to say that there isn't potential there. The SDC is afterall a specialist detector & the GPZ $8k dearer so they should excel over it really.
I'll keep plugging away & hopefully things start falling in place. Need that palm to forehead Doh moment where you realise exactly what you should have been doing from the start :lol:

Gave it a few goes over here mbasko,just aint happening,been offered the updates so might send it over but i get the feeling that'll be just dumbing it down,they have a platform but thats about it for hot ground i think,needs alot more development.
Mode 7-8 on laterite and you can allmost use it,i say allmost,only ran a 15x12 or 10 detect mono on it which is a very quiet stable coil,i can run my 45 with that coil in normal way better then the qed on laterites,performance is not real good with modes up around 7-8 i noticed.
Another problem when on the hot ground i noticed is falsing,i was a confussed why actually cause i know that coil is a ripper,had me buggered one day until i grabbed the control box,touch it or a light squeeze and bingo-noise,so just the swinging and combo of hot ground i think upsets it.
Now its more or less sitting next to the exercise bike in the spare bedroom,they make a great pair.
The size of it is impressive but they have a long way to go before its a versatile unit compared to the competition i think.....

Goldchaser1 said:

Gave it a few goes over here mbasko,just aint happening,been offered the updates so might send it over but i get the feeling that'll be just dumbing it down,they have a platform but thats about it for hot ground i think,needs alot more development.
Mode 7-8 on laterite and you can allmost use it,i say allmost,only ran a 15x12 or 10 detect mono on it which is a very quiet stable coil,i can run my 45 with that coil in normal way better then the qed on laterites,performance is not real good with modes up around 7-8 i noticed.
Another problem when on the hot ground i noticed is falsing,i was a confussed why actually cause i know that coil is a ripper,had me buggered one day until i grabbed the control box,touch it or a light squeeze and bingo-noise,so just the swinging and combo of hot ground i think upsets it.
Now its more or less sitting next to the exercise bike in the spare bedroom,they make a great pair.
The size of it is impressive but they have a long way to go before its a versatile unit compared to the competition i think.....

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The noise that you are experiencing when you squeeze the control box sounds like a faulty board perhaps a dry joint.Needs to be returned for fixing under warranty. The 3.5 mm audio jack can also be noisy if you use an adapter.In the updates the audio now has 2 audio sockets or you can specify which one you want.
You should also check to see that the earth field adjustment is spot on because if its not then any swinging of the coil thorough the geomagnetic field will induce a signal. Swinging and combo of hot ground will not upset the QED!
The updates in the mode expand the range of the sample delay.The consequence of this is that as the sample delay is increased the sensitivity and depth to targets with faster decay times ie short time constants (tiny nuggets/specimens)may diminish or disappear altogether.However for targets with longer time constants ie larger more solid nuggets the depth and sensitivity losses will be smaller due to the GB method that the QED uses which is actually MPS but in a single channel.This is opposite to what happens in a ML gpx with smooth modes where as the time constant of nuggets increases the depth and sensitivity falls off dramatically compared to normal timings. As the audio of the QED is not boosted one key to using it is to listed for pitch changes(which the ear is most sensitive too) rather the changes in vol because if the signal is below the trigger point level for the audio circuit then you will only hear a change of pitch. This is where the bias setting becomes important.
What bias where you using and what GB readings were you getting on the laterites?
I will respond to the other post when i get time as i am very busy at the moment.
hope this helps

Mbasko, I have a QED, only had it a couple of weeks. Been getting to know it more,testing on buried targets and basically getting the feel for it. I don't use any boosted audio device for it whatsoever. In my opinion you are just boosting unwanted ground and emi noises, this detector was never made to run with a threshold. A threshold can be induced into your audio if you like by adjusting Threshold A & B as you know, but I like it this way not having a Threshold.

Could you please let me know what your ground balance numbers are in your area that you detect in? and in particular what GB number in what delay mode you use, this way we can gauge the mineralisation in your area compared to my area, i will do the same.

I have got it running well in certain areas, but the ground conditions dictate how i set it up. It would be good to compare ground info. with each other, I think this would be the first time ever that use detectorists could truly compare our ground types with numbers, with each other.

I think it would be interesting and i think we could gain a lot from it to setup our QED's.

AEGPF said:

As the audio of the QED isnotboosted one key to using it is to listed for pitch changes(which the ear is most sensitive too) rather the changes in vol because if the signal is below the trigger point level for the audio circuit then you willonlyhear a change of pitch. This is where the bias setting becomes important.

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Nothing in the manual about listening for pitch changes? Will listen for them next time but can't say I can remember hearing any.
When listening to the threshold I'm not listening for changes in volume but rather any change to the actual threshold that might indicate further investigation is needed. That to me is why a good audible threshold is important & I have found during using/testing the QED over targets that by lifting the coil away until the signal is gone then lowering it slowly swinging back down to the target that you do get threshold "movement" or "waivers" or whatever you wish to call them but the threshold does start to react to a target at a given point. It's not an increase in volume that is caused. The low audio makes this very hard to listen for under normal conditions.
Yes it can be lifted using bias & volume but then all other noise is lifted too. IMO the threshold needs boosting at a point where it is steady & not being clouded by other noise.
I'm probably wrong though?

Roscoe said:

Mbasko, I have a QED, only had it a couple of weeks. Been getting to know it more,testing on buried targets and basically getting the feel for it. I don't use any boosted audio device for it whatsoever. In my opinion you are just boosting unwanted ground and emi noises, this detector was never made to run with a threshold. A threshold can be induced into your audio if you like by adjusting Threshold A & B as you know, but I like it this way not having a Threshold.

Could you please let me know what your ground balance numbers are in your area that you detect in? and in particular what GB number in what delay mode you use, this way we can gauge the mineralisation in your area compared to my area, i will do the same.

I have got it running well in certain areas, but the ground conditions dictate how i set it up. It would be good to compare ground info. with each other, I think this would be the first time ever that use detectorists could truly compare our ground types with numbers, with each other.

I think it would be interesting and i think we could gain a lot from it to setup our QED's.

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From what I've found with the QED over targets a threshold is beneficial. I can hear targets at a given point above them with one & nothing without one.
I've had ground balance numbers here from the high 90's to around 150 & everything in between depending on area, coil & mode. Mostly it seems to be between around 105 to 135 here.
On the weekend I settled on mode 5 for both coils (NFA 14x7 & Detech Ultra 11"). The NFA 14 x 7 was reading between 109 to around 120 while the Detech Ultra was between 120 to 134. The ground is variable here & I didn't go over the exact same ground. There is an ironstone band running through what is otherwise moderate ground & I was around it with the Detech coil mostly. The odd hotrock around & the GPZ can groan on areas.
Good idea Roscoe but I wonder how big a part coils play in it & even the same brand/size coils may produce different numbers?

P.s the really high numbers I got were using mode 2 which wasn't the mode for that area.

Ive only used mine 5 times so far, the 1st two times was getting to grips with the settings, coils etc. Working too much and crap weather are mainly to blame. I got 4 bits of gold incl one over a gram. I dont have a big range of coils to test with and I find it produces too much noise between coil changes and I have to fiddle with all the settings to get it right again. Often it takes me 10 minutes to quieten it down. On the plus side, it can be amazingly sensitive and finds small thin targets that the SDC cannot hear at all. Set correctly with a big coil, it can punch amazingly deep too! Super light weight especially when the battery pack is removed from the detector and I use a cable. Whats the cost of the AGB, control upgrades etc??

To achieve a threshold adjust your bias either up or down from neutral which is normally 50. Down if you are hunting small gold (small coil) or up for larger deeper targets. Threshold is different from other types of detectors, but a low threshold does not mean you will miss even very small targets.

Reg Wilson said:

To achieve a threshold adjust your bias either up or down from neutral which is normally 50. Down if you are hunting small gold (small coil) or up for larger deeper targets. Threshold is different from other types of detectors, but a low threshold does not mean you will miss even very small targets.

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Reg could you please describe your own QED setup how you set up the QED for the very worst ground that you have uncounted so far.
thanks

Interested in how you counter variable ground, with the gpx, its just, click the green button , pump the coil and move on.
With the qed, its a bit of a hassle when you are at 130 ish, then hit some 145ish, then back to 130,s and so on.....

davent said:

Interested in how you counter variable ground, with the gpx, its just, click the green button , pump the coil and move on.
With the qed, its a bit of a hassle when you are at 130 ish, then hit some 145ish, then back to 130,s and so on.....

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Because the filtering system in the QED is very different to the GPX if you try and GB like a gpx then you will not get the correct GB.

Yes I know.
Thats why im asking Reg how he deals with it.

Davent, the QED can be a bit temperamental on changable ground, but by just 'feeling' the GB up or down a bit I can usually get it right. If it still plays up, then it may be necessary to increase the mode.
Some ground can be practically unworkable with any detector, and even though the QED handles most ground, there will still be the odd 'no go' zone.

Reg, i can go from 130,s to near 150 in a few paces, then back to 130,s again in the space of 15m!
Thats where I can com e unstuck, gb, set bias, threshold all good, mode fine, move 10m and ground noise everywhere, gb, again, adjust mode, gb again, fiddle around, and 10m later repeat!
Im hopeing that the auto gb will help with this, Ill send my unit down to Howard tomorrow, and go from there.
I really want to be succesful with this machine, as it is small, light, and practicly wireless.

davent said:

Reg, i can go from 130,s to near 150 in a few paces, then back to 130,s again in the space of 15m!
Thats where I can com e unstuck, gb, set bias, threshold all good, mode fine, move 10m and ground noise everywhere, gb, again, adjust mode, gb again, fiddle around, and 10m later repeat!
Im hopeing that the auto gb will help with this, Ill send my unit down to Howard tomorrow, and go from there.
I really want to be succesful with this machine, as it is small, light, and practicly wireless.

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Its always going to be hard in the ground you describe and even more so in laterite soils which are well known to be amongst the most difficult for detectors.
In the E states of Australia we don't have laterites so methods used in difficult ground here may not be applicable to your laterite soils.What I would try is to adjust the mode for very worst ground you encounter (and leave it in this mode) and then just Gb as required or try setting the GB on some of the huge lumps of hot rocks you encounter rather than the intervening ground and sweep the coil 1"-2" above the ground.However as you would understand as the mode is increased you may pay a price in terms of the loss of some smaller targets.Not many QED users are detecting over laterite soils so to a large extent in this regard you are a trail blazer.

Davent, Try not to use BIAS in your area, try to keep Threshold A up as high as possible and keep the ground balance mode open and your finger ready to adjust the ground balance on the fly. By having the unit BIASed in hot variable ground you are causing your self to really never have a true pulse on the dead middle of the ground balance null. Its important with this machine to have the GB right in the middle of null, by BIASing the machine in variable ground you are making it very hard. You will find that Threshold A adjusted up as high as you can go but staying within the null that you have created with threshold A will give you a lot of information and hit targets well. By keeping the threshold A up as high as possible in effect you are doing the same job as raising BIAS. There is a chart in the original manual and on AEGPF showing you how Threshold A and B work together, blow this chart up print it out and stick it on your wall at home and bend down on two knees and pay homage to it, because by understanding this chart you will understand the QED.

Mbasko, Yes i agree that different coils will change ground balance numbers in the same ground. This is why i believe the standard wound coils suit this machine in high mineral variable ground, I have experienced soils with the QED from high 90 to 180 depends on location, mode,coil choice as you said. I am just going to borrow a few different coils in those high numbered grounds and give them a run, but at the moment like i said to davent, keep the Threshold A up as high as possible without BIAS until you get a good feel for the machine, In some areas i run Threshold A @90, gain 1, BIAS 50 or 49, mode 3, dtech 11" ultra and it sings on small pellet shots.

I do have a preferred setup procedure, will go into that when have more experience with machine.

Reg Wilson said:

To achieve a threshold adjust your bias either up or down from neutral which is normally 50. Down if you are hunting small gold (small coil) or up for larger deeper targets. Threshold is different from other types of detectors, but a low threshold does not mean you will miss even very small targets.

Click to expand...

Realise that Reg but mine seems to be neutral at 52-53. Set up for the small gold area my bias was 48 which still allowed some threshold albeit quiet. Any lower then that it first becomes erratic then too noisey i.e. start to loose faint signals in other noise when testing. Set up like this yes it does pick up some very small or faint targets sharply but it is also not picking up others at all. You can get a good response in low modes but then can't detect the ground with them without constant ground noise. Using higher modes again dimishes signal even with the extended modes. I must be missing a key point in the set up?

Roscoe said:

keep the Threshold A up as high as possible without BIAS until you get a good feel for the machine, In some areas i run Threshold A @90, gain 1, BIAS 50 or 49, mode 3, dtech 11" ultra and it sings on small pellet shots.

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This is the opposite of what an experienced QED user has advised me. His advice was to leave volume (threshold A) low. I was running at 81(told this was way too high + causing some of my initial issues) & getting good signals in mode 2 or 3 but was getting frustrated with constant random ground noise in the variable ground areas. Also told that mode was too low for that ground.
This is all in ground SDC, GPX or GPZ handle well. Odd moans or groans but they give few issues overall & remain sensitive to the gold there. To get rid of ground noise with the QED I diminish or remove signals i.e. lower volume, higher mode. Very frustrating & like Davent interested in how this is being effectively managed by others that say that the QED handles all or most ground. I can't achieve that in places & still maintain good sensitivity like I had been able to with other detectors.
Davent I don't know that the AGB will impress you much. Mine was erratic the other day - it first gave a ground reading of 200. Done it again & it went to 68 after the numbers went nuts. Restarted the QED & I manually balanced ok. After that using the AGB either the numbers didn't change or if they did it didn't change much (it never went nuts again so just a teething gremlin?) but on occasion I still needed to manually adjust it as ground balance was noticeably out.
AEGPF the manual says that after the initial AGB by pressing the button + lowering the coil from 15" to 1" then releasing the button that further AGB can be done by pressing the button & bobbing the coil (like you would with a GPX). Is this not the correct way to use it?

mbasko, This my view on it and how i see this machine.

The QED as i see it is a reverse threshold machine, but the designer has cleverly allow you to hear what's going on in under the NULL, lets call this the under world. Now just like all under worlds there's the Good, the bad and the ugly and its the operators job to bring from the under world just the good.

Ok, To put this into perspective lets think of a TDI PRO, when you turn the Threshold clock wise you reach the point where you have Threshold, this on the QED is Threshold A @ 90, well not quiet but close, as 100 would be threshold just on. Now because the QED has a inherent null in it at 90 on threshold A this would be like just turning back (anti clockwise) your TDI PRO threshold control a wisker, but unlike the TDI threshold in this area you can still hear what is going on under this null. Now what you loose in that Null can be brought back by the BIAS control.

Here is a little test you can do to see how mineralised the ground is in your area. Set the QED in Threshold A -90 Threshold B- 50 Gain 1 -start by ground balancing the unit from mode 1 to 15.

If your machine balances under this Threshold A 90 Null.

mode 1-7 mild-medium ground
mode 7-15 medium- high ground
No mode - very high mineral- This type of soil requires good setup, but the rest above is a piece of p*ss.

Roscoe said:

mbasko, This my view on it and how i see this machine.

The QED as i see it is a reverse threshold machine, but the designer has cleverly allow you to hear what's going on in under the NULL, lets call this the under world. Now just like all under worlds there's the Good, the bad and the ugly and its the operators job to bring from the under world just the good.

Ok, To put this into perspective lets think of a TDI PRO, when you turn the Threshold clock wise you reach the point where you have Threshold, this on the QED is Threshold A @ 90, well not quiet but close, as 100 would be threshold just on. Now because the QED has a inherent null in it at 90 on threshold A this would be like just turning back (anti clockwise) your TDI PRO threshold control a wisker, but unlike the TDI threshold in this area you can still hear what is going on under this null. Now what you loose in that Null can be brought back by the BIAS control.

Here is a little test you can do to see how mineralised the ground is in your area. Set the QED in Threshold A -90 Threshold B- 50 Gain 1 -start by ground balancing the unit from mode 1 to 15.

If your machine balances under this Threshold A 90 Null.

mode 1-7 mild-medium ground
mode 7-15 medium- high ground
No mode - very high mineral- This type of soil requires good setup, but the rest above is a piece of p*ss.

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In hot and variable mafic or ultramafic or laterite terrains you have no option but to raise the mode as you correctly say to 7-15.