Victorian Government Response to Victorian Environmental Assessment Councils (VEAC) Investigation into additional prospecting areas in parks
- Thread starter RottenRon
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I'm off work tonight due to illness but I'll do my utmost to get along and give VEAC members a big hug. Hopefully I don't infect them 
layful:
layful:
Was going to go but my wife has come down crook today so need to look after her and the family tonight. Bugga!
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I'm out unfortunately just got home and now have to leave with Clancy to do a few things so won't be back home until 7 at the earliest. For all those who attend I hope you get the opportunity to get our message across. Pull out the Mental Health card it's an ace up our sleeve I hope, they can't ignore mental health problems and we have a right to look after ourselves because we know ourselves better than anyone. It's our way of self managing stress of life in our public areas :Y: ower: :fistpump: :fistpump: :fistpump: and we've paid for this right.
ower: :fistpump: :fistpump: :fistpump: and we've paid for this right.- Joined
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So like many others I had multiple reasons not to attend tonight and those were the reasons that I could only manage to attend from 7.30pm to 8pm
My daughter had to be dropped off @7pm and picked up @ 8.30pm so unfortunately the window of opportunity was narrow. This meant that I missed the start and the end of the presentation/discussion and was only treated to the wishy-washy waffle of those who see the lock out as a 'fait accompli' imho.
Personally I think there are grounds to argue that the VEAC board didnt make reasonable attempts to contact those affected by their proposed actions. For example a figure of 7,000 miners rights holders were not contacted directly. Their excuse was they only contact license holders in the vicinity of the affected area. I dont think this is a reasonable process. Sending out seven thousand letters to notify miners rights holders of VEACs proposals is reasonable. Talking to a few prospecting clubs is not the way to reasonably inform miners rights holders. So VEAC have not made reasonable attempts to inform those affected. Doing adverts is not a resaonable way to inform people, not when you can easily obtain the details of each miners right holder.
As I knew I was only going to be there for 30 minutes so I had to be a bit robust in getting RMOutbacks question above put forward as there were many questioning arms raised in the room! Also I had to walk out in the middle of proceedings to ensure my daughter was collected on time, I know.....how rude?!
Oh well, my gut feeling is not positive about the whole thing but I'm hoping BigWave will have better news as surely he'll have a more holistic view as he would have been there for the whole thing.
Room was full so thats good!
My daughter had to be dropped off @7pm and picked up @ 8.30pm so unfortunately the window of opportunity was narrow. This meant that I missed the start and the end of the presentation/discussion and was only treated to the wishy-washy waffle of those who see the lock out as a 'fait accompli' imho.
Personally I think there are grounds to argue that the VEAC board didnt make reasonable attempts to contact those affected by their proposed actions. For example a figure of 7,000 miners rights holders were not contacted directly. Their excuse was they only contact license holders in the vicinity of the affected area. I dont think this is a reasonable process. Sending out seven thousand letters to notify miners rights holders of VEACs proposals is reasonable. Talking to a few prospecting clubs is not the way to reasonably inform miners rights holders. So VEAC have not made reasonable attempts to inform those affected. Doing adverts is not a resaonable way to inform people, not when you can easily obtain the details of each miners right holder.
As I knew I was only going to be there for 30 minutes so I had to be a bit robust in getting RMOutbacks question above put forward as there were many questioning arms raised in the room! Also I had to walk out in the middle of proceedings to ensure my daughter was collected on time, I know.....how rude?!
Oh well, my gut feeling is not positive about the whole thing but I'm hoping BigWave will have better news as surely he'll have a more holistic view as he would have been there for the whole thing.
Room was full so thats good!
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Thanks for the update diggit :Y: my timing issue is I wouldn't have arrived just before or after 9pm (that's now) so a big thanks to you and all who attended. Looking forward to hearing of the next update. Diggit your views on the process of informing is valid :Y: and can't be ignored, well said.
Hope things went well. No wa I could make it. Kids and all.
Picked up the local rag in Blackwood a couple of days ago.
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What a load of biased rubbish! "More than 60" supporters get a big photo with the obviously placed kid in the foreground (what, couldn't count all the way up to 70?), and the "Hundreds" of campaigners against it, get the little pic showing all of 7 people clearly in it! This is biased reporting at it's worst! How many "hundreds" was it exactly? Two, six, nine hundred? Care to be just a bit more exact, Angela Crawford?! While the "More than 60" and "ecologist" Charles Meredith from VEAC get most of the story to put forward their say, and the hundreds 'against' get two sentences in it! (And doesn't an Ecologist have an actual degree, so shouldn't it be spelt with a capital E? Does he even have a degree?). And that's just the start of the bad reporting!
Didn't anyone tell you that reporters were meant to be impartial, Angela Crawford?!
Didn't anyone tell you that reporters were meant to be impartial, Angela Crawford?!
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Agreed. Useful idiots they are, exploited to push an agenda that doesnt include them. That kid, strategically placed in the foreground made me laugh....it reminded me of that kid 'token' in south park!
Anyway newspapers, news on tv are alien to me. I dont read nor watch them as they are just pushing their angle. There's rarely a counter angle aired or printed, funny that.erfect: Perfect for controlling the desired narrative.
Anyway newspapers, news on tv are alien to me. I dont read nor watch them as they are just pushing their angle. There's rarely a counter angle aired or printed, funny that.
erfect: Perfect for controlling the desired narrative.
I went to add to the numbers & listen ?
Hard Luck - traffic from Wbee was ghastly - 2 hours on the way over
I think VEAC are secret squirrels , they werent sure who Thet were working for ....?
KAOS perhaps .....? ?
I counted about 80
Still I was happy I went ...!
Hard Luck - traffic from Wbee was ghastly - 2 hours on the way over
I think VEAC are secret squirrels , they werent sure who Thet were working for ....?
KAOS perhaps .....? ?
I counted about 80
Still I was happy I went ...!
The meeting started well enough (about 50 or so attendees - (they bought in another 10 or so chairs), but on listening to VEAC's answers to questions, I realised I was listening to a group who were spinning their answers on the spot (just like many pollies), fully on the defensive, and believed that they are set in their ways and were there for show only.
Their defence will be that "we listened to diverse groups opinions", whereas in fact they were there to defend their biases (IMHO).
Good to see diggit there, and I understand that Trash was as well, but didn't meet. Minelab was there as well.
After a brief intro by PMAV President Mike Barry:
A. VEAC started their presentation talking of the threat of increasing population pressure on the bush. What crap IMO, as 50% of our population increase is ethnic groups, and you don't see such in the bush - at least I never have! Then there's the newer generations who live for their iPhones, gaming machines, computers, and massive social media (Facebook, Twitter etc). Trying to get our kids out bush is becoming harder, so I reckon the "population pressure" on the bush will be naturally reducing, without VEAC trying to make it even harder for our kids to get out into the real bush.As the demographic of attendees was clearly the elderly, I reckon that once we pass, that the pressure on the bush will drop even further, leaving future generations locked out and relying on Social Media to maintain an interest in this world.
B. Next, they made great emphasis on how independent they were. Apart from one, the rest of the council are public servants, who didn't look as though they'd been out bush except under escort. There was so little time for questions, but would have loved to ask 1. whether any had free-camped out bush in the last 10 years, and 2. will any of them (or their families) be negatively by their decisions - I'd bet - NO WAY to both!
C. They proceeded to state that their terms of reference included environmental as well as social and economical balance, but then stated that should >75% of an environmentally endangered species reside in an area of Crown Land, then that would automatically become a National Park. No consideration of social or economic concerns at all! What bloody hypocracy!
D. Their report lumped us Recreational Prospectors (hobbyists who love and respect the bush) in with Commercial Prospectors and Miners (who are in it for financial reasons), leading reviewers to see us as environmentally damaging. I reckon that was deliberate BS!
E. They talked of Eco Tourism. What crap! eco tourists like to see major landmarks such as the Great Ocean Road, where they descend on mass in massive coaches, walk a set track and go back to 5-Star hotels for a shower, cocktails and a cooked meal. No roughing it under the stars with solid mates, telling porkies and laughing locked in arms.
F. They hid behind the Government being in Care-Take mode, and avoided many answering many questions which could have been tackled.
G. What finally broke it for me is their absolute failure to recognise the effect that increasing ferals (pigs, cats, dogs, foxes, rabbits) and weeds will have on their new Parks when recreational hunters have been banned. Those places will become an international joke or will cost us tax payers dearly to fix.
There were some good questions asked, but many unfortunately wanted to hog the floor, and again, questions were cut short as the hall had only been hired till 9:30. I reckon it could have bone till midnight. Most of us did not get a question in.
I don't mean to stir the pot, as I'm just telling it as I saw it, but I left feeling angry; believing that we've been well and truly shafted.
Hopefully cooling down today - maybe go fly a drone or something? Heaven knows, I might need a new hobby soon
Their defence will be that "we listened to diverse groups opinions", whereas in fact they were there to defend their biases (IMHO).
Good to see diggit there, and I understand that Trash was as well, but didn't meet. Minelab was there as well.
After a brief intro by PMAV President Mike Barry:
A. VEAC started their presentation talking of the threat of increasing population pressure on the bush. What crap IMO, as 50% of our population increase is ethnic groups, and you don't see such in the bush - at least I never have! Then there's the newer generations who live for their iPhones, gaming machines, computers, and massive social media (Facebook, Twitter etc). Trying to get our kids out bush is becoming harder, so I reckon the "population pressure" on the bush will be naturally reducing, without VEAC trying to make it even harder for our kids to get out into the real bush.As the demographic of attendees was clearly the elderly, I reckon that once we pass, that the pressure on the bush will drop even further, leaving future generations locked out and relying on Social Media to maintain an interest in this world.
B. Next, they made great emphasis on how independent they were. Apart from one, the rest of the council are public servants, who didn't look as though they'd been out bush except under escort. There was so little time for questions, but would have loved to ask 1. whether any had free-camped out bush in the last 10 years, and 2. will any of them (or their families) be negatively by their decisions - I'd bet - NO WAY to both!
C. They proceeded to state that their terms of reference included environmental as well as social and economical balance, but then stated that should >75% of an environmentally endangered species reside in an area of Crown Land, then that would automatically become a National Park. No consideration of social or economic concerns at all! What bloody hypocracy!
D. Their report lumped us Recreational Prospectors (hobbyists who love and respect the bush) in with Commercial Prospectors and Miners (who are in it for financial reasons), leading reviewers to see us as environmentally damaging. I reckon that was deliberate BS!
E. They talked of Eco Tourism. What crap! eco tourists like to see major landmarks such as the Great Ocean Road, where they descend on mass in massive coaches, walk a set track and go back to 5-Star hotels for a shower, cocktails and a cooked meal. No roughing it under the stars with solid mates, telling porkies and laughing locked in arms.
F. They hid behind the Government being in Care-Take mode, and avoided many answering many questions which could have been tackled.
G. What finally broke it for me is their absolute failure to recognise the effect that increasing ferals (pigs, cats, dogs, foxes, rabbits) and weeds will have on their new Parks when recreational hunters have been banned. Those places will become an international joke or will cost us tax payers dearly to fix.
There were some good questions asked, but many unfortunately wanted to hog the floor, and again, questions were cut short as the hall had only been hired till 9:30. I reckon it could have bone till midnight. Most of us did not get a question in.
I don't mean to stir the pot, as I'm just telling it as I saw it, but I left feeling angry; believing that we've been well and truly shafted.
Hopefully cooling down today - maybe go fly a drone or something? Heaven knows, I might need a new hobby soon
Well at least you got into the Newspaper, Biased or not.... At least you guys are doing something down there.... :Y:
LW.....
LW.....
BW,..... I have a new hobby for you...Minister for the Environment,
Well articulated arguments for the cause... well doneower: :clap:
Well articulated arguments for the cause... well done
ower: :clap:
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Thanks for the update BigWave sound's like the same old dribble that was freely flowing from the environmental knuckle heads during the Box and Ironbark issue. I wouldn't mind betting some of those so called experts are related to today's lot. Starting to sound like we need to find a Daryl Kerrigan and Dennis Denuto to come up with plan to fight the decision. Call it a Vibe but to me I reckon the informing process (as stated by diggit) is a piss poor effort, we conduct ourselves in a lawful manner and pay for the privilege. Then BOOM :bomb: the Government plays a smoke and mirrors game and changes the access we've paid for without formal consultation pttt and then send minions to squark dribble.
Not happy.
but to me I reckon the informing process (as stated by diggit) is a piss poor effort, we conduct ourselves in a lawful manner and pay for the privilege. Then BOOM :bomb: the Government plays a smoke and mirrors game and changes the access we've paid for without formal consultation pttt and then send minions to squark dribble.Not happy.
Yes, it is retrospective forfeiture of ones Miners rights to these proposed areas.... could be legally challenged perhaps.
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Worth investigating imo the worst case scenario is being told not worth the challenge. Surely everyone who pays for a right of passage in terms of public land access should be formally informed by the bureaucrats who spend many hundreds of thousands if not millions of public money and then force change through a single minded Assessment Council's assessment. Yes I understand they called for submissions and many people responded but there's many who may not have been informed and or not responded. If you can find the numbers of all paying user groups with a licence /right and challenged through class action if it's possible at a minimum it might maintain access for the short term and eventually force legislation to favour us now and in the future. After all the environmentalists who have assessed and advised are interested in the future as much as we are yet they are given a government blessing to advise for change with a result we loose part or all of our paid rights /privileges ] :N:.
Anyone know a good legal eagle to chew the fat with for advice.
:N:.Anyone know a good legal eagle to chew the fat with for advice.
Reading the above posts is like reliving the night yrs ago that the original Bush Users Group N,East packed into the small hall at Eldorado and listened to the same BS about ecco tourism and endangered species, and the need a National park to protect the leopard orchid and the regent honey eater. Once again the Labour party was in power and the loony lefty greens were pulling the strings. Oh how things have changed NOT :/
NOT :/Hard Luck said:
Above picture is on VNPA website along with some B.S. quotations on how popular the Parks Proposal is with the general public.
Lies, Lies.
oop:
Two good outcomes for us recreational prospectors from our Vic elections:
1. The Shooters party has retained its seats in Eastern Victoria and Northern Victoria, and could win the final seat in Western Victoria.
2. Senior Victorian Greens were keeping a low profile on Sunday while the party anxiously waited for the full extent of its election nightmare to unfold. As upper house counting progressed on Sunday, the Greens looked to have lost one of its lower house seats, Northcote, and up to four of its five upper house MPs.
So cheer up OP & keep our fingers crossed!
1. The Shooters party has retained its seats in Eastern Victoria and Northern Victoria, and could win the final seat in Western Victoria.
2. Senior Victorian Greens were keeping a low profile on Sunday while the party anxiously waited for the full extent of its election nightmare to unfold. As upper house counting progressed on Sunday, the Greens looked to have lost one of its lower house seats, Northcote, and up to four of its five upper house MPs.
So cheer up OP & keep our fingers crossed!
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