Using a dredge in Australia for recreational prospecting is illegal - information and questions

[lukem]

how can a yabbie pump be legal? it serves one purpose only.... to dredge. From earlier comments it seems the general consensus is ALL forms of dredging is illegal.

 

[yobskin]

Oh lukem its a hand operated devise....

 

[Dirt Monster]

What!! Can't get any more yabbies!!!! Hahaha! Sorry in one of those facetious moods today. My apologies.

 

[shivan]

Yep,
It is hand operated.

You are going to hate me Tarth, but dredging itself is illegal yes? So why does it matter if its hand operated or not? By that logic gravity dredging must be ok?
I would think this would be a lot more down to the ranger on the day and if they know the things are known as hand dredges than anything to do with legal wording.

I will stand up to my rights when it comes to the water pump, but anything to do with dredging you have no legal footing to stand on.

 

[Eski]

Hmmm , hand operated pump driving an eductor dredge would still be a dredge right????
a pump is a means for moving dirt through a Highbanker so that clasification takes place. If the water was not there then the dirt would not move and thus would it not be classified as Hydraulic means of moving dirt?

I'm not Trolling, but just commenting on the bull of the day...

Theses and more are the technicalities of LAW.
Tax law is similar, the letter Law is the fallback subject to interpretation by a judge on the day , how it actually works is the current interpretation and practice.

 

[lukem]

A Grey Area.
Dredging is illegal.
In any form.

quote: using any type of suction to move material is classed as dredging full stop

quote: Whether you remove material either by water pressure or vacuum makes no difference it's still by mechanical means

Its difficult to follow a topic on regulations when the people who say they've made the calls and have the answers seem to make the "grey" area legislation into rainbow colours.

If dredging is illegal "in any form" then you would not be able to use a yabbie pump whether it be called a hand tool or not. Technically a yabbie pump would be classed as mechanical anyway regardless of needing no power or fuel supply and used with your hands. Requires a bunch of parts put together and operated by a person = mechanical. Just as much as a wind up clock, push bike and hang glider are mechanical. Needless to say a yabbie pump is also a suction/vacuum machine; tying in quotes 2 and 3.

 

[Eric2017]

As a newby, what is the difference between using a yabby pump and shoveling dirt from the bottom of a river?

They both do the same thing right? Very odd laws.

 

[lukem]

you cant suck material off the bottom of a water source with a shovel as you can with a yabbie pump. You could fill a wheelbarrow with a yabbie pump 10x faster than a shovel

 

[Eric2017]

You can get pretty close. I know I have with a small shovel and scoop, from around bedrock.

To me the end result it pretty much the same.

 

[7.62marksman]

i must be using the wrong yabbie pump takes me ages to get a bucket full (sorry mate had to do it) ] ] ] ]

as i have said once before on here
you can intemperate the law any way you want because at the end of the day when you are standing in front of the judge you have to prove to him its not dredging and remember he will have all the laws in front of him even the grey areas
so all i can say is good luck with that

 

[Tathradj]

OK.
Splitting Hairs,
Motorized Power Eduction Dredging or similar utilizing a Powered Water Pump
forcing water through a nozzle or similar therefore creating a suction force to
remove material from a River or similar substrate.
.
A Yabby pump or similar though creating a vacuum for the same
purpose is hand operated and of a single stroke.
I would like too see you remove 1 yard of material under 10 minutes.

A Grey Area.
Dredging is illegal.
In any form.

quote: using any type of suction to move material is classed as dredging full stop

quote: Whether you remove material either by water pressure or vacuum makes no difference it's still by mechanical means

Its difficult to follow a topic on regulations when the people who say they've made the calls and have the answers seem to make the "grey" area legislation into rainbow colours.

If dredging is illegal "in any form" then you would not be able to use a yabbie pump whether it be called a hand tool or not. Technically a yabbie pump would be classed as mechanical anyway regardless of needing no power or fuel supply and used with your hands. Requires a bunch of parts put together and operated by a person = mechanical. Just as much as a wind up clock, push bike and hang glider are mechanical. Needless to say a yabbie pump is also a suction/vacuum machine; tying in quotes 2 and 3.

 

[lukem]

sorry. i am very black and white. To me the sky is blue the grass is green. Im not even in the state; point of discussion. But i was reading through and the contradictions got the better of me.

case in point if its a rock filled creek. Apples and apples you couldnt shovel quicker than a YP.

So, yabbie pump gets the tick as a hand operated dredge.

 

[Jaros]

Ditto Silver.

 

[Smoky bandit]

you cant suck material off the bottom of a water source with a shovel as you can with a yabbie pump. You could fill a wheelbarrow with a yabbie pump 10x faster than a shovel

Sorry mate ...but you must have a big ass yabby pump ...as i have a big ass shovel:/

 

[Tathradj]

I respect a person who calls it the way they see it. :Y:
Calls for a great debate at times.
May be Black and White to you but,
With this particular Hand Operated Pump,
You can read between the lines.
Law makers don't mind it one bit.
Saves folk's breaking up bed rock and such. :Y: :Y:

sorry. i am very black and white. To me the sky is blue the grass is green. Im not even in the state; point of discussion. But i was reading through and the contradictions got the better of me.

case in point if its a rock filled creek. Apples and apples you couldnt shovel quicker than a YP.

So, yabbie pump gets the tick as a hand operated dredge.

 

[aussiefarmer]

A little off topic and more for napfa and tathadj , in the fight to keep highbankers legal maybe making strainers on pump pickup hoses be made compulsory maybe specifying a max off 5mm holes might help the do gooders believe we arent running gravel through our pumps , just thinking out loud

 

[lukem]

Maybe, but laws of physics, gravity and water would suggest the faster you try shovel a solid from water the more you will loose. Well, that is an easy point to prove. Likewise, the amount of material in a yabbie pump would be more than 2 full shovels if emptied onto a shovel.

Even if you pumped as fast as you could the most you'd loose would be half a cup. A shovel, well all of it!

Off topic but the topic has weathered. Purpose I should do a video

 

[aushunter]

I certainly wouldnt want gravel going through my pump, me thinks it will get destroyed.
Goes to show that the do gooders out there know what they are talking about. hah
bout time for a Stockade type approach, might get some sort action, sitting here bit@3ing about it certainly is not going to get anything done.
Play safe.
Cheers
Brad...

 

[Jemba]

Maybe, but laws of physics, gravity and water would suggest the faster you try shovel a solid from water the more you will loose. Well, that is an easy point to prove. Likewise, the amount of material in a yabbie pump would be more than 2 full shovels if emptied onto a shovel.

Even if you pumped as fast as you could the most you'd loose would be half a cup. A shovel, well all of it!

Off topic but the topic has weathered. Purpose I should do a video

I whole heartily and totally disagree with that statement. It all comes back to the skill of the person on the end of the shovel.
Jemba.

 

[Eric2017]

Yep.

I bought a partially enclosed garden scoop. I hardly lose any material when scooping from stream beds.

I am also not sure what the rate at which it can be done factors into any legal definition.

If the result is the same, i.e. removing material from a stream bed, then what is the difference?

By the way I am not arguing for or against. Just trying to understand what the legal justification is.