Using a dredge in Australia for recreational prospecting is illegal - information and questions

[Ryan1981]

i Recently watched a YouTube video of a guy in the states being paid by the US health dept, after he submitted a survey to clean up the old timers mercury.
Here is the kicker he gets to dredge in an area that's full of gold, that he keeps, he gets paid to do, and he sells the mercury to industrial chemical company's.

And hes cleaning up the environment WIN WIN WIN WIN.

Maybe we could do something like that here, yeah right
Anyway cheers
ryan

 

[Ryan1981]

Why did the use of suction dredging get banned, does it really cause damage to the environment?
Or is that just a lie, the old timers used mercury we know thats bad, I mean all its doing is re positioning gravels in the river.

Whats are the real reasons does anyone know??

cheers
Ryan

 

[Guest]

Ryan the real reasons for banning dredging in Victoria were environmental. The fisherman and ecologists said that the disturbing of river gravels disturbed the breeding beds of fish amongst other things. The actual reason is that Joan Kirner, when she was Minister for Environment, vowed that if she was elected as Premier, would ban eductor dredging and she did. The Eductor dredge working party looked at all the facts, including some studies from overseas. Politicians were invited to see dredging in operation in the river at Jamieson and mostly agreed that it was not damaging. When it came to the vote re dredging the 7 government departmental officers and politicians given the responsibility of making the decision were at 3 votes each, and a Liberal Party member crossed the floor and dredging was gone. It was a 4-3 vote that killed it. America is getting some dredging bans overturned as recently as this week, however it is not the time to re-ignite the dredging debate. The big issue now is to keep what we have and that is sluicing.

 

[Ryan1981]

Fair enough, Ive just been watching vids on Youtube and it looks so much better than running HBs, especially at this time of year.

I watch one doco on somewhere in the states where only one river in the area was allowed to be dredged with limitations of 4 or 5 inch manual type jobies, the eco ppl watched over it very closely, and reports indicated that through sediment displacement and increased oxygenation from dredging actually increased fish population.
They had footage of some fish that where all no longer in the other local rivers, but in this river where the miners were allowed to the fish followed behind this dudes dredge eating,and spawning in the new areas.

Im all for not upsetting the apple-cart and apparent rights we have now,It was more to try and understand the reasoning behind the govs decisions on said matter.
If it was completely political and had nothing to do with damaging eco systems and or industry, then what a faff(typical government)
Our whole country was founded on our minerals/resources, so thats why i asked the question.

cheers
Ryan

 

[Guest]

It was very political. The thing that has astounded me since is that the trout fishermen got their way and dredging was banned, yet since then there have been a number of calls to eradicate trout in the waterways as they are not a native species, but the trout fishermen don't want that do they. Sadly they always seem to get their own way. When you read the hefty publication that came from the eductor dredge inquiry it is plain to see that we didn't get a fair go. I agree that now is the time to dredge, but unless there is a quantum shift in the mindset of the fishermen and the greens, it will be forever banned.

 

[Ryan1981]

Maybe its people in general that need to charge as a whole, We as prospectors should claim or sovereignty, or perhaps another eureka/civil protest,On mass seems to be the only way to get the attentions of government now days.

People in general rely to heavily on government to regulate everything, and we don't get a say at all. And I know that some people will disagree with me about these types of things, BUT thats the point, freedom of speech, we all should have a right to speak up about things that matter to the individual person.
Not buy some government party, and or person trying to further their job/career as a public servant-(TOOL). Their job is to serve the people, And we sum how have give them the power in their eyes to tell us what we can or cannot do.

WOW i feel better now after that rant.
Cheers
Ryan

 

[Guest]

We need to form a political party. I have said this in another post on here very recently.

 

[Ryan1981]

Thats a great idea, I have absolutely no idea of how to even start a political party. But i do feel that the rights of people need addressing to parliament,

there would be many issues that would need addressing, What would you guys in the forum like to see change, ie
nation wide prospecting laws,

one fossicing permit/miners right for the whole country?

Or no permit at all, as its our right as taxpayers?

Use of different forms of excavation?

What are general things that you guys would changed/fixed.

Cheers
Ryan

 

[Goldtarget]

Less restrictive access ( for low impact prospecting) in alot of areas like reserves, historical areas and water courses, and some low impact dredging would be sweet, if not just to suck the material up whoops it's date night better pay attention.

 

[Tathradj]

As I stated on a previous post,
A permit to operate a 2" dredge is all that would be needed.
I had an idea on a crevice sucker that discharged into a 20 liter bucket that used both displacement and suction to complete the task.
I did not want to stir things further so I have left it at that for the moment.
It would be nice.

 

[Ryan1981]

As I stated on a previous post,
A permit to operate a 2" dredge is all that would be needed.
I had an idea on a crevice sucker that discharged into a 20 liter bucket that used both displacement and suction to complete the task.
I did not want to stir things further so I have left it at that for the moment.
It would be nice.

Agreed on the smaller sized dredges, the idea of allowing the average Joe miner to use small suction equipment is all i would be asking for,or even the use a vacuum for dryer material.

 

[yobskin]

Honestly guys the government would most probably let us do it if it could be policed with out costing them to do so. Then you have the vast areas with prospectors trying to find gold in hard remote lands how do you track that...let alone get there. Perhaps we police it for them. Register with back ground checks PR/ Prospecting ranger. As a duty to save our hobby. We as a loyal group would see more of the country than most if you notice somthing while your out having a dig or swing document it with photo evidence build a case/trap to find the culprit so they can charge them. Its going to be left up to us to save us!
So lets give clive a ring... 8.(

 

[Goldtarget]

The truth is most blokes would probably go a long way to achieve a good compromise. If half my time was rehabilitation and environmental works that allowed more prospecting options in terms of areas and equipment for the other half I'd be happy with that. I don't expect everything to be a one way street, and I do believe alot of the opponents to expanding anything just like to try and make us out to be villains. It would be in everyone's interest to focus on overall outcomes instead of trying to shut things down all the time. I see alot more people enjoying the outdoors these days, (go to an expo and you'll soon see what I mean) and the custodians will tell you for the most part they find it difficult to manage at times. A bit of education, self regulation, volunteer some time, and keep an open mind when addressing some of the issues and we could all come together for better outcomes. I for one have no problem with sharing, the rewards and the work.

 

[Guest]

A few points-
1- Mining Laws are State administered as per the Australian Constitution. It would need hell to freeze over for change to happen. So no way a licence would be legal for the whole country.
2- Secondly you need 500 paid up members to form a political party. Membership could be a dollar each.
3- Any device with moving parts used to extract gravel is illegal.
4- No licence at all? Are you kidding?? We need the Miners Right to stay. Without it we are gone. It's the one thing the government cannot take from us and believe me they have tried.
5- Dredging is illegal in any form and with the work going on behind the scenes to stop sluicing it is a subject we should all leave alone, for now at least.
6- Prospecting in reserves, historical areas, and watercourses. We are hanging on to what we have as best we can, in spite of the efforts of the Greens to boot us out. Need to leave that one alone too. Look at what happened with the VEAC investigation into new prospecting areas in N/P's. It backfired, as I said it could and now we are facing an onslaught of action to ban the use of sluice boxes. Sometimes it is better to not wave the red flag in front of the bull.
7- Prospecting Rangers- I put this to the department 10 years ago. Suggested that some areas could be policed by experienced prospectors to ensure that rules etc were being observed. As they rightly said, The Park Rangers have enough difficulty policing mining laws. A civilian would have no hope.

 

[Tathradj]

A Permit that would involve training and the operation of a dredge with a max size of 2 inches at the nozzle.
Included in the training would be,
Recognition of,
Sensitive area's,
The types and strata of streams that you are operating in,
Damage of Banks,
Finding of heavy metals like Mercury. That is reportable and training of what to do.
A distinct knowledge of what fauna that can be affected via the operation of such equipment.
Proper control of sediment. Even though the beds of streams are constantly changing due to natural causes, If you hit a layer of mud. Stop...
Only to be operated within certain time frames of the year to assist fish in their spawning cycle.
.
Such a system in effect and the amount of precious metals recovered would increase the amount of gold recovered and that would be nice to our country.
.
I could go on and on.
.
Share your thought's.

 

[loamer]

Puddler - I have enjoyed reading your posts - very informative and food for thought. I spoke to all our local candidates at the last election. I also badger the Loddon Shire election candidates as well. I spoke to them about the cause and effect of gold tourism for example - more tourists/more $/more $/more jobs/more jobs/more tax $ etc etc etc. Gee, it was bloody hard going. 'There are a lot of competing interests'. Our rural seats just seem to be getting taken for granted and it is frustrating. Now - a Prospector with an Upper House seat in a hung Parliament - 'cop that mo fos'!!!!!! We could dig up the old gold ground on Flagstaff Hill with that power.

 

[ProspectorPete]

I was reading through this post as a prospector and a trout/cod fisherman and was only going to point out that if waterways were managed properly from all parties with a vested interest then there is no reason a (or all) waterway(s) couldn't benefit from proper management.
A simple closure to dredging during the spawning season on a particular waterway is all that's needed.
The fact is that if dredging were encouraged on a stream for the 3 months leading up to a fishes spawn then the fish will benefit from nice clean gravel beds to do it's "thang" instead of searching Klms upstream for gravel beds that aren't silted over. Siltation over the fertilized eggs is what kills them before they hatch, you can't stop mother nature doing her part in natural "control" with flooding but we as humans can help with control of a better environment if we all work together and manage things properly.

It's not hard, but unfortunately egos, money, greed & poor knowledge of the various subjects usually get in the way of what's most beneficial to everyone who uses the waterway...........and that's unfortunate for everyone :|

 

[Swinging & digging]

I honestly think there is little hope to the re-introduction to dredging in Australia.
Over the years a huge effort has been done to try and get it back to No avail.

I share Puddler Bills worry that the very mention of it will result in negative proposals coming back our way for existing rights and access.
One government official i spoke with said the biggest threat to any possibility of re introducing dredging was the potential number of operators who
would be willing to take it up if it was legalised. Possibly thousands!

When dredging was legal in Victoria there was widespread conflict against gold dredge operators and this was the main reason it was banned.
Im proper use of a dredge can result in negative effects on the environment and i seen a bit of that occur.

 

[Guest]

The dredging issue should be left to rest for the present time. A few years back I helped a local student with her thesis. She was doing a study of water quality in the Woolshed Valley, and various feeder streams. I helped her with her sampling and much more. She is now a senior officer in the EPA. I will not go into the in depth results publicly, but let me just say that disturbing the stream sediments mobilises mercury, cadmium, arsenic and many more nasties. These are also mobilised during floods. Many of these chemicals came not from gold mining, but more likely from a very large tannery near Beechworth that closed down about 50 years ago.
The issue here is that when the stream is at low levels the sediments are virtually free of chemicals but when the stream is in flood a degree of contamination occurs. This also occurs when digging in to the sediments.
This is why we need to drop the dredging issue for a time. If we raise the issue of dredging, then we run the risk of losing sluicing as a recreational activity as well.

 

[Easypeasy]

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