Undetectable GOLD!

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It's well known that the GPX series will miss some types of gold and the odd nugget that you think they would/should detect, I'd say that's why the SDC and MPF was implemented. People call it holes or gaps in the timings.

That's why people say the SDC will pick up tiny shallow gold and speccies that even the ZED will not see.
 
I guess if money was no object it would pay all 3 machines and go over the ground with them one by one and then move to a new spot,
 
I understand. But on a piece that big, no timing gap should miss that. Maybe something to do with the coil combo he was using. Dunno.
 
Ridge Runner said:
I guess if money was no object it would pay all 3 machines and go over the ground with them one by one and then move to a new spot,

And even then, I have heard time and time again people say that they had been over the same spot with same machine and still found more.

Could be a UE or could just be the way it is.....

Alignment of the Gold Stars maybe..lol
 
1508403713_human-octopus-18932705.jpg
 
hAyyoUinAU said:
So the PI's are missing fine gold that the VLF's will pick up????

I am pretty sure once Pulse Induction came in it re opened the gold fields after they were hammered by the VLF era.

On benign ground maybe, but my experience is most gold bearing areas are very high mineralised.

Doesn't work like that where I go, good luck swinging any VLF around there. Unless you like a crazy detector going off on anything and everything.

PI territory.

This Topic was not created for the purpose of VLF vs PI.

The VLF "era" was prior to the modern LF detectors, these coming at the same time as multi-sample PI's. Of course much deeper and smaller gold was discovered from then with (modern multi-sample) PI's, and the LF's were (still are) largely ignored in Oz. Yes, using an LF will be noisy, especially with the high gain and threshold needed to see small gold, discouraging most from trying, and leading to a school of thought that PI's are the Holy Grail. However, even on the noisiest ground, tracing the black sands can be quite successful.
I poke around Wedderburn, and here in SA, and with proper use of the Vsat,the only place the GMT fails is around silver/lead/zinc deposits. But even then it will still trace the black sands. For trashy areas I use my Compass 94B, totally ignoring all but large or galv iron. LF's, even dinosaurs like this,(100kHz IB) still have their place on the goldfields.
My interperatation of the re-opening of the goldfields was the renewed vigour and exponential amount of detectorists as much as the extra depth of the PI's.

PI "territory" ??....really? It seems you are the one with a bias.

Much info on timing "holes" in PI's can be found at Geotech.

I did not try to make this a (V)lf vs PI, and yes, " good luck" will help no matter what you swing, but knowing your machine and area will be much more helpful.

The only other suggestion I could make about invisible gold is the shape of it-perhaps reflecting the signal off itself. It is known a gold ring is detectable at further distance once the circle is cut.
Perhaps this can explain it.?
 
Tim said:
hAyyoUinAU said:
So the PI's are missing fine gold that the VLF's will pick up????

I am pretty sure once Pulse Induction came in it re opened the gold fields after they were hammered by the VLF era.

On benign ground maybe, but my experience is most gold bearing areas are very high mineralised.

Doesn't work like that where I go, good luck swinging any VLF around there. Unless you like a crazy detector going off on anything and everything.

PI territory.

This Topic was not created for the purpose of VLF vs PI.

The VLF "era" was prior to the modern LF detectors, these coming at the same time as multi-sample PI's. Of course much deeper and smaller gold was discovered from then with (modern multi-sample) PI's, and the LF's were (still are) largely ignored in Oz. Yes, using an LF will be noisy, especially with the high gain and threshold needed to see small gold, discouraging most from trying, and leading to a school of thought that PI's are the Holy Grail. However, even on the noisiest ground, tracing the black sands can be quite successful.
I poke around Wedderburn, and here in SA, and with proper use of the Vsat,the only place the GMT fails is around silver/lead/zinc deposits. But even then it will still trace the black sands. For trashy areas I use my Compass 94B, totally ignoring all but large or galv iron. LF's, even dinosaurs like this,(100kHz IB) still have their place on the goldfields.
My interperatation of the re-opening of the goldfields was the renewed vigour and exponential amount of detectorists as much as the extra depth of the PI's.

PI "territory" ??....really? It seems you are the one with a bias.

Much info on timing "holes" in PI's can be found at Geotech.

I did not try to make this a (V)lf vs PI, and yes, " good luck" will help no matter what you swing, but knowing your machine and area will be much more helpful.

The only other suggestion I could make about invisible gold is the shape of it-perhaps reflecting the signal off itself. It is known a gold ring is detectable at further distance once the circle is cut.
Perhaps this can explain it.?

Tim, You are spot on there I tried that cut ring test and a lot of detectors just loose sight of the targets, My VLF can see Gold chains with links that are about 1mm to 2mm OD in size using the 6x10DD which is one of the reasons I bought it but with the little round 5.3 (6") coil it is a lot hotter, the smallest bit of lead I found weighed 0.006 gm and it can see bits weighing 0.003gm from about an inch or so on the surface, So I guess with that kind of sensitivity it would hit pretty hard on that nugget in Wals Video being the size it is,

But it does cause some head scratching when you see a machine like that miss such a largish nugget, when you see things like that it does fill you with doubts for sure,

Thanks again Tim.

John.
 
hAyyoUinAU said:
So the PI's are missing fine gold that the VLF's will pick up????

I am pretty sure once Pulse Induction came in it re opened the gold fields after they were hammered by the VLF era.

On benign ground maybe, but my experience is most gold bearing areas are very high mineralised.

Doesn't work like that where I go, good luck swinging any VLF around there. Unless you like a crazy detector going off on anything and everything.

PI territory.

This Topic was not created for the purpose of VLF vs PI. The idea was for anyone who has experienced the same thing to upload their experience.
It is supposed to help us all. Knowing these things can prove very valuable one day.

No it was not created for that purpose but it would be nice to try a VLF and an LF, the SDC and a GP/GPX and the ZED on that nugget just to see which technology can break through that barrier.

J.
 
Ridge Runner said:
hAyyoUinAU said:
So the PI's are missing fine gold that the VLF's will pick up????

I am pretty sure once Pulse Induction came in it re opened the gold fields after they were hammered by the VLF era.

On benign ground maybe, but my experience is most gold bearing areas are very high mineralised.

Doesn't work like that where I go, good luck swinging any VLF around there. Unless you like a crazy detector going off on anything and everything.

PI territory.

This Topic was not created for the purpose of VLF vs PI. The idea was for anyone who has experienced the same thing to upload their experience.
It is supposed to help us all. Knowing these things can prove very valuable one day.

No it was not created for that purpose but it would be nice to try a VLF and an LF, the SDC and a GP/GPX and the ZED on that nugget just to see which technology can break through that barrier.

J.

Maybe Wal n Liz kept the answer to themselves. I'd guess the SDC picked it up and maybe ZED too. But its all speculation. And even my Makro too. But then again, someone would of said their GPX would of picked it up as well. lol
 
One can only copy and paste comment from a previous thread :rolleyes: as it comes as no surprise to me at all........................ and pretty much echo's the adventures of Wal & Liz Even so it does make your head spin when Captain Z just has the blind goggles on .................... best team I have met is hubby swings the Z and wife follows behind with the blue vacuum cleaner. They go home pretty confident that they haven't been leaving the goodies behind.

I've seen the SDC scream over a nugget that a GPX5000 with 12 and 15 Evo coils couldn't even see ................. hence tried the second coil as thought the machine must be broken neutral When the Z was put over the target if you hadn't known the target was there it would not have pulled you up. The owner of the Z was somewhat amazed also at how the blue baby was howling over something the big fella barely made a peep over. On asking those that know this is the case on certain types of gold (prickly was used to describe the type and has to do with the different coil timing of the two machines I'm told) and probably why the SDC and Z in combo is the best you can get thumbsup Personally for me the SDC just does what it does better than any other machine currently available and why I would never part with it regardless of what other machine I owned. I never leave a patch without giving the SDC a run at it and comes as no surprise to me at what Madtuna is finding :Y:
 
read some were that gpx detectors find gold with i think it said about 5% silver or copper in nuggets a gpxs would start to have trouble detecting them as the percentage increase to the point of no detection then as the nugget became closer to pure silver or copper detection started again, the test was base on 1 cm cubes of gold with know percentage of silver it was stated that a vlf detected all samples
 
That's interesting. I have a 2 grammer I found at jupiter creek which is a gold/copper mix. Not sure the % of copper but it was difficult to hear despite only being 6" down or so. I thought it had something to do with the shape of the nugget but perhaps the metal composition explains it.
 
I agree a VLF would of picked them all up. And metal composition would play a factor for sure. However, a VLF may pick it up in an air test, but in mineralised hot ground it could be next to impossible to distinguish any target at all from noise.

At least this gives us all hope that there is a lot of gold that has been missed or not detected previously.

I might message Minelab and see what they say as well.

Interesting indeed.
 
I was also thinking that Aussie gold is the most purest gold in the world, in nugget form. So maybe that issue might be more relevant overseas, say in USA, where the gold tends to have more copper and silver in it.

hmmmm
 
hAyyoUinAU said:
I was also thinking that Aussie gold is the most purest gold in the world, in nugget form. So maybe that issue might be more relevant overseas, say in USA, where the gold tends to have more copper and silver in it.

hmmmm

A few years back I read GSA's report on the GMT In which they were finding undetectable Gold So I guess that would also apply for any LF/high frequency "VLF" starting with the GM on up, They will never be depth demons in hot ground but they were digging all the undetectable Gold within the top 3 to 6" or less,

Here is the review/story Goldsearch Australia wrote a few moons ago, It's not exactly what I'd call proof but it worked and I have found bits that none of my PI's could see, The SDC would do just as well in less junk areas, but this report was written back in 2008 before the SDC was invented so nower days I think it would pay to use both but at leased we know that it worked in the Golden Triangle. So maybe some of the new Nokta/Makro and the GM or any other machine that runs a high frequency or High Gain machine should work,

http://www.goldsearchaustralia.com/index.php/gmt_stories

J.
 

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