Power in the bush

[Village]

simple fool proof, they make dual battery carriers for most 4wd now.

 

[Village]

Hey mbasko

got his on my email tonight, Have no idea on solar panels so can't help if it's any good, but thought it might be of interest.

http://www.camperdeals.com.au/deals/100w-airflex-solar-panel-2/

John

 

[axeman]

Sounds like a good deal, I like the light, flexible panel and it's Australian.
Mick

 

[Reeks]

Sounds like a good deal, I like the light, flexible panel and it's Australian.
Mick

Just found the exact same kit on "completed auctions" on ebay which was selling for $259 with free postage from seller: tv351
Didn't say anything about Australian design or company.. Specs were identical.
I would presume this is all China made stuff and the spiel about Australian design is BS..
Reeko

 

[condor22]

It's not rollable like the Unisolar flexibles, they are built on a flexible poly type material.
I would thing that mounted to a roof semi permanent might be ok. If the aluminium backing got damaged ie with a crease it could well open circuit the panel. And it could well be damaged. Camper Deals also state that the panel is 1250x550x2 in size so although lite weight, something that is about 4'x2' is a fair size to pack as a portable. Nothing is said about how the cells are sealed either, most reputable manufacturers have a shatter test for hail upto a certain size and have a clear polymer cover. ie


Solar Panels are designed to sustain a 5cm Diameter hail stone at terminal velocity otherwise they will fail IEC61730 (The Standard)

I have a 120W folding suitcase type panel, yes it's heavier but it is about 1/2 the size (LxW) but thicker and it has legs to stand it up at a nominal angle and can be spun to the sun every 2-3 hours to optimise output. I can also put my caravan in a shady spot, but run a cable out 10M to panel in the sun

iTchworld are based in W.A. there is nothing on their web site as to where the panels are made or if made to a Standard. BTW they are also offering the $299, but unlike Camper Deals, they are offering free shipping.

Not sure I'ld risk it.

 

[axeman]

Sounds like a good deal, I like the light, flexible panel and it's Australian.
Mick

Just found the exact same kit on "completed auctions" on ebay which was selling for $259 with free postage from seller: tv351
Didn't say anything about Australian design or company.. Specs were identical.
I would presume this is all China made stuff and the spiel about Australian design is BS..
Reeko

It could be China made gear sold under the "Australian made" banner which wouldn't surprise me as a lot of stuff is.
I think I would be checking out the red arc solar panels that roll up, I know their dear but maybe better quality and value for money.
I was thinking of setting up a solar panel on the ute canopy and these being thin would have been ideal.
Mick

 

[Redfin]

Geezuz that's a lot of clips.

 

[condor22]

Geezuz that's a lot of clips.

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/232/1390948159_panel.jpg

Probably lost something in the Chinese to English translation

 

[Westaus]

I know this is an old thread, instead of starting a new one, I am currently looking at one of these ark power pak - http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/...ery-Box.aspx?pid=339141&menuFrom=571663#Cross just as example

What I am not sure about is the inbuilt 6amp charger. If I understand this increases the charge rate into the battery from your supply source. In this case it would be an 80w solar panel. When driving can we connect it into a car 12v plug as well ? Leave fridge plugged into the unit all the time. Unplug unit from car when stopped etc... Or are they efficient enough that this is not needed normally.

I want to run a Waeco CFX50 in the low mode so it should run down the battery as much as needed before shut off. It looks like it draws 7.8A and I would think as we are running it as a freezer -15'c at that temp I believe it may run for about 15 mins of the hour or 25% ?

Other equipment to be charged are the usual suspects like Phones, Detectors etc... this has a built in inverter and usb 12v plugs. Looking at other boxes and parts if you were to buy them separately it would be more by the look of it. I believe the battery can be changed out so down the track if needed just upgrade the battery.

Who has one and what do you think, is any one else looking as well out of curiosity ?

Thanks

Westaus

 

[condor22]

The first thing you need to be aware of when charging a deep cycle AGM battery from the car alternator is;

Cars/4x4 typically charge the vehicle cold cranker at about 13.8 VDC, a deep cycle battery requires a voltage of about 14.2 VDC to be properly charged.

So plugging into a cig socket is not going to cut it, yes it will charge, but not properly, which can affect battery life.

You need a DC to DC smart charger that will suit AGM batteries such as the Redarc 1220. It can by the way a configuration wire is connected charge a wet cell, calcium or AGM battery at the correct boost and float voltage. It also acts to stop any drain on the vehicle battery.

 

[condor22]

I put this post on my 4x4 Forum today, it might interest people here. Sorry for the length of this post, but I can't do justice any shorter.

110W Folding 4x4 Solar Panel

Size - Folded 560 x 200 x 50, Unfolded 1720 x 560 x bugger all.
Weight < 5kg
Rating - 110W

Type - Here I'll try to explain what it's made with. The Canvas is heavy duty Auscam canvas, each segment is sealed in it's own pouch as is the internal electrical interconnections of each segment. The unfolded length does not include the canvas flaps either end. The larger flap has 2 heavy duty eyelets to either hang, or padlock it for security. Folded the outer flap has 2 velcro straps to keep it securely folded.

There is a short outlet cable with a waterproof plug/socket that is keyed to prevent reverse polarity. The short piece of twin core on the other end, then needs to be spliced to cable that goes to the Solar controller (near the battery). The output from the controller to the battery is then terminated according to how you connect it. In my instance I'll put an Anderson plug on it.

A bit about the cells; Most solar panels, as you can see by the lines in them are what are called "front gridded" cells and when exposed to sunlight lose about 3% before even working. They are also heat affected in high ambient temperatures. They also drop right off if there is any part of them in the shade. (apart from Unisolar)

The cells in these folding mats are "rear gridded cells" designed by an American company (I don't know which, but a huge company) and have a 0% drop. They will work with Infra red (IR) light and ultra violet (UV). When the sun rises and sets and for an hour or so the sun's main output is IR. As a consequence these panels will produce almost their full output not long after sunrise and up to sunset. This extends the total sun hours we have been using to calculate daily output at various times of the year.

His statement to me was "Conservative output from one panel in average to bad conditions is 44AH" Obviously the better the conditions the higher the output, but solar design should be done using worst case scenario.
He designed these folding panels and they are made to his specs in Taiwan. He also said "that because the US company that designed the cell is so large, it took him 2 1/2 years of negotiation to obtain approval for their use in his design, partly because he is a one man show".

OK to the important bit, the normal RRP for the panel is $670 + $52 for the controller. Postage depends on location, but $20-$40 as a guide. (capital cities cheaper than regional) Total approx $750

However, I have negotiated a bulk price of $650 approx incl postage. This price requires an order of 10 min. I will add anyone here that is interested in the panel to a possible group buy.

If you have any questions please post, I will answer if I can and contact the supplier if not. I will be away for 2 weeks in a weeks time.

PS

When looking at the pics the panels seem rippled and marked. They have a clear film on them which is removed before use, it is the film that is rippled.

I might add that he designs huge Motor home panels (4 of which will produce 350AH a day). These panels are guaranteed for 25/25 yrs.

I might explain the normal guarantee practice; We have all seen panels with a 22 year or 25 year guarantee, what this means is the panel is guaranteed to produce a minimum 80% of it's rated output for up to the years specified. However the actual product guarantee is the 2nd digit ie 2 or 5 years.

The above motorhome panels are tested to not shatter when a 50mm ball of ice hits at 50kph. He has not rated the folding ones because they are not permanently fixed to a roof, but it helps you think of the ruggedness a little better.

 

[Westaus]

Thanks condor, like the flat ones but not yet for me.

I think I understand what you are saying. This is all very new to me and a lot of the numbers and references are still a bit double dutch.

As I have access to the above (Solar panel, Battery) is my cousins. So I was looking to get something myself. Based on what you are saying a good item to add to what we have is the Redarc 1220. This makes sure the battery gets to the 14.2 VDC mark. This can be setup to run of both the car and solar panel.

Example -

Car 12v > Redarc 1220 > Battery > Accessories...

Solar Panel > Redarc > Battery > Accessories...

Or can it be configured -

Car 12v + Solar Panel > Redarc > Battery > Accessories...

I cannot hard wire anything into the vehicle that is also an issue, but I could make a separate box + Anderson plugs as needed.

Is the above feasible and do I have it about right or I have I muffed it up completely

Thanks again

 

[condor22]

Hi Westaus,

Car 12v > Redarc 1220 > Auxiliary Battery > Accessories... is correct, the car provides the source when the engine is on

Solar Panel > Redarc > Battery > Accessories... Is NOT quite correct. A solar panel requires a regulator, the BCDC1220 is not, however Redarc do a 12 to 12 charger regulator in the BCDC1225, but it requires a relay. You can have a look at both on the Redarc web and download the user manuals which show the wiring diagrams.

However if you intend it to be removable remember that the Redarc requires a 30A input fuse, so you CAN'T run it from a cigarette socket, the fuse and the wiring are not heavy enough. The idea of a 12 to 12 charger and a solar panel is 2 fold.

Option 1 is for campers running a 4x4 with Auxilliary and a panel fixed to the roof of a car all permanently wired, so when the vehicle is going the relay holds in and allows the BCDC1225 to do its job. When stopped to camp the relay breaks and cuts power from the car and the source then becomes the solar panel. The panel does not then require its own regulator.

Option 2 is similar to option 1 except the panel is not hard wired and might be deployed on the ground, the battery is used for tent camping and requires charging independent of the BCDC1220. If so then the panel needs its own regulator.

I had a 70A ignition controlled solenoid installed on my tow hitch for the caravan with heavy duty wiring to the trailer electrics. So when I installed the BCDC1220, I ran its input to the solenoid, so that it only gets input power when the engine is running and isolates from the vehicle battery when stopped. I initially was not using solar.
So now that I do want to, and I'm not going to get a 1225, all I need is a portable panel with it's own regulator providing charging volts and plug it into the battery.

Hope this is clear enough for you, unfortunately, making the correct independent power solution decisions, does need a bit of technical knowledge understanding. Its easy for things to go horribly wrong if not set up right and that usually happens when you're out bush in need of the kit.

 

[kleinman98]

I run a 3.4kva remote electric start genny for 240v and battery in the van for 12v stuff in conjuction with small inverters for tv etc. and 140w folding solar panel to keep the battery charged onsite to keep the fridge going.

 

[Westaus]

Thanks heaps condor, that has clarified it spot on for me.

I will explore the options you have given and see which one will work long term for me. I am not in any immediate panic as we have something at the moment, but I would like to get my own equipment and did not want to buy something only to find it does half of what I wanted, which is usual for me. This way at least I have a great starting point and don't look like a total noob.

I am sure your post will help a lot of others as well.

Cheers

 

[Redfin]

Some good reading here men, and some simple diagrams that even I could follow.

http://www.traxide.com.au/

 

[condor22]

Thanks heaps condor, that has clarified it spot on for me.

I will explore the options you have given and see which one will work long term for me. I am not in any immediate panic as we have something at the moment, but I would like to get my own equipment and did not want to buy something only to find it does half of what I wanted, which is usual for me. This way at least I have a great starting point and don't look like a total noob.

I am sure your post will help a lot of others as well.

Cheers

"Break it down"

You usually need the 3 utilities out bush, power, water and gas.

Two of the 3 are easy to sort.

LPG Gas - easy to carry, reasonably safe and goes a long way. Using it to cook and boil water is the most economical way. In a tent, you carry a portable stove, portable gas bottle (how much depends on you, but it's better to carry 2 x 4.5kg bottles than 1 x 9kg because when one empties, you have a spare and a few days to take it for filling without breaking camp or running out) and a kettle or billy. In a caravan, the stove is fixed, the bottles are on the draw bar and likely you will have a 3 way fridge that will run on gas to. Easy

Water - Tenting, you carry jerries, how much depends on your need, length of stay and ability to re-fill. In a caravan I have a 60l tank, but carry extra in jerries. I can also catch rainwater off the awning. Also fairly easy.

Electric - This needs more thought, but again break it down.

There are 2 types of power usually required, 12 VDC and 240VAC. 12VDC is generally obtained from a battery/batteries, which means you gotta put back what you take out. Deep cycle batteries, should never be cycled below 50% and 25% is the optimum for battery life. So 25 to 50 AH out of 1 x 100AH battery. Big inverters use a lot of power, so large 240VAC requirements are out. Lights should be LED, they use 1/10 the poser of incandescent. So you need to add up what you use between each recharge so as to not exceed the batteries capability. You also need to work out how to recharge it ie solar or generator and smart charger. (The 12VDC output on a generator is a 12VDC supply, it is not suitable to charge batteries.) If the battery is moving about or in a confined space, a wet cell is not advised, they gas off Hydrogen, it goes BANG if lit. An AGM is totally sealed and will work upside down if needs be.

For anything more than about 150 watts VAC, run a generator, buy a good one, it will last forever and be more reliable, I would only ever use a Honda or Yamaha.

Your basic choice to recharge is solar and it needs to be sufficient to replace 24 hours of battery use in the half a day of daylight or a generator and smart charger. In Vic in winter you only get 2-3 "sun hours" per day, so that is worst case scenario and that is what you design for.

I have both solar and genny, just in case. My practice when getting back to camp from detecting is; Crank up the genny, which is connected to the caravan. This then makes sure the battery is fully charged and whilst doing that I use the microwave more often than not, to cook tea, this saves gas for my fridge.

As I said for 9AH of battery and 1.5lt of diesel, I turn on the diesel heater at 6pm and set to 22 deg. As I go to bed (I use a -10 rated sleeping bag in the van) I turn it down to 15 deg. In the morning I get out of bed, no condensation and reasonable temp even when it's 0 deg outside. It get's turned off about 8am.

What I describe is only one of a number of ways to do this, it depends on the what, where, how of your personal needs and the equipment and money you have.